BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

[roach]

The man couldn't do one character right let alone, get ready for bastardised versions of the trinity. The film will be full of more holes than a Swiss cheese and will have atrocious cringe worthy dialogue moments. No one should have any faith in this man and after BvS it will be a case if told you so.

 

[The Sage]

He tends to write fast. The BEGINS script was finished in six weeks. And it was pretty much the film we got.

Goyer's been at this script since at least February.

Yeah, Batman Begins was pretty much his script. The later revisions had changes--some for the better, some could've stayed the way they were--but Goyer's original story is what ended up on the screen.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I felt like ironically that Goyer overthought MOS and looked past the obvious origin approach. It's like he asked, "How can I not make this a conventional origin story?" and went too far in the other direction, while WB and Snyder probably influenced him to cram an action beat every 10 pages. Or John Peters

If the sequel is a lot more balanced, I will be happy that Zack got his mayhem out early on..and that Affleck was there to help with the scrpt

 

[ThePhantasm]

No offense to the Nolan bros., but I prefer an action beat every 10 pages instead of mountains of exposition over and over again.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ You kind of had a bit of both in MOS, though

 

[ThePhantasm]

The only part I felt was bogged down by exposition in MOS was when Kal first meets Jor-El and they go through the whole history of Zod AGAIN. I was like "didn't we just see this in the prologue?"

 

[Krumm]

I posted this elsewhere but in the middle of the much larger conversation

Interesting tidbit here:

I was just emailing a friend about nerd stuff (as we do) and he brought up how Goyer is kinda dumb for having Jonathan direct people to the underpass during the tornado; that is definitely the worst place to be.

I did a quick Google search as to why and came across this:

The idea that overpasses offer safety probably began in 1991, when a television news crew and some citizens rode out a very weak tornado under an overpass along the Kansas Turnpike. The resulting video continues to be seen by millions, and appears to have fostered the idea that overpasses are preferred sources of shelter, and should be sought out by those in the path of a tornado. In addition, news magazine photographs of people huddled under an overpass with an approaching tornado imply that this is the correct safety procedure. Nothing can be further from the truth!
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ddc/?n=over

And here is the famous video of it:

[YT]lHBZylcxIvw[/YT]

Now that video took place in 1991, in Kansas of all places, while the tornado scene in MOS takes place in 1997 (made evident on Jonathan's tombstone). It is reasonable to assume that the fallacy of an underpass being a safe place would persist in the MOS universe considering the year and location of the scene.

Maybe Goyer was too smart for his own good.

Or he's not smart enough to know the truth.

You decide.

 

[DChero]

I posted this elsewhere but in the middle of the much larger conversation

Interesting tidbit here:

I was just emailing a friend about nerd stuff (as we do) and he brought up how Goyer is kinda dumb for having Jonathan direct people to the underpass during the tornado; that is definitely the worst place to be.

I did a quick Google search as to why and came across this:



And here is the famous video of it:

[YT]lHBZylcxIvw[/YT]

Now that video took place in 1991, in Kansas of all places, while the tornado scene in MOS takes place in 1997 (made evident on Jonathan's tombstone). It is reasonable to assume that the fallacy of an underpass being a safe place would persist in the MOS universe considering the year and location of the scene.

Maybe Goyer was too smart for his own good.

Or he's not smart enough to know the truth.

You decide.

Whether he got lucky or not, it definitely fits the character. My wife criticizes me when I write because I always have at least one character that sounds just like me. It's hard to get things like that right from writers, which is one of the things that separates the pros from the amateurs.

If only he could have re-worded Lois' opening scene a little better. That's the a rough one for me to take when watching the movie.

 

[goh78]

I just wanted to see Clark enjoy his powers. If a kid could fly and was the strongest being imaginable...shouldn't we be able to see him enjoy it? He moped about it. And I understand his father wanted him to keep it a secret, ok. But we can't get a private moment where it shows him enjoy it, for a second? I liked the movie, just not this aspect.

 

[Krumm]

I just wanted to see Clark enjoy his powers. If a kid could fly and was the strongest being imaginable...shouldn't we be able to see him enjoy it? He moped about it. And I understand his father wanted him to keep it a secret, ok. But we can't get a private moment where it shows him enjoy it, for a second? I liked the movie, just not this aspect.

Agreed. I liked the movie a lot but just one scene of him having fun with it would have been nice. It would only add strength to why he does what he does; he likes it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well, he really seemed to enjoy himself when he was flying. As for young Clark... I guess that would have been fun to see but they were playing up the isolation angle.

 

[Krumm]

Well, he really seemed to enjoy himself when he was flying. As for young Clark... I guess that would have been fun to see but they were playing up the isolation angle.

Yeah, I'm referring to young Clark. It might have helped to play up the isolation angle as when being alone is when he can have fun and be himself.

Like I said, I'm a fan of the movie, it just would've been nice.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Yea I'll 2nd that as well, I had hoped he had some scenes with Lana atleast.....I was so surprised she had only one scene

 

[charl_huntress]

Also let's not forget Del Toro's JL Dark, which he himself has said is in the same universe.

When you say he says same universe was he speaking metaphorically like it's the same type of world, or that he's taking cues from the story in MOS as his blueprint for Superman? I haven't read anything on JL: Dark, and I'm not current with 52.

But bringing it back to Goyer, I wonder if he'll end up being too busy with the universe to handle the minutiae of writing the MOS sequel. Maybe he'll strictly be an idea man for the universe and possibly the characters's solo films and delegate the script writing to others. Being an idea man is one of his strengths that I think his detractors can get on board with.

That seems to be the main gist of what I hear all the time. Goyer has great ideas, but is not effective when it comes to his scripts.

No offense to the Nolan bros., but I prefer an action beat every 10 pages instead of mountains of exposition over and over again.

Me too. I like action and appreciate the amped up factor in MOS.

 

[Alonsovich]

When you say he says same universe was he speaking metaphorically like it's the same type of world, or that he's taking cues from the story in MOS as his blueprint for Superman? I haven't read anything on JL: Dark, and I'm not current with 52.That seems to be the main gist of what I hear all the time. Goyer has great ideas, but is not effective when it comes to his scripts. Me too. I like action and appreciate the amped up factor in MOS.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...needs-to-fit-wbs-planned-dc-universe-20131112

http://collider.com/justice-league-dark-guillermo-del-toro-dc-universe/


I meant this. Guillermo del Toro (Pacific Rim, Hellboy movies) has been developing and attached to direct on a film the unites the DC Universe's supernatural characters (Constantine, Zatanna, Deadman and so on) in one film that IS going to be part of the shared DC Universe on film (started with MOS). The project is known as Justice League Dark. What this means is:

1. MOS wasn't Superman Begins, but DC Universe on Film nº 0.

2. Supernatural characters (demons, hell, heaven and all that stuff) and magic DO exist within the DC Universe on film started by MOS, and are being actively developed by WB and one of their star directors.

 

[DA_Champion]

It remains to be seen if David Goyer allows Guillermo Del Toro to implement his vision.

We know that GDT wants to make the movie and has invested some time into it, it doesn't follow that he will have the opportunity to make it. Pacific Rim was probably a money loser as it made 100 million in North America on a 190 million dollar budget, which doesn't bode well for his creative freedom.

Further, for all we know, GDT might have 20 projects in development, and he won't pick to do all of them even if given a budget.

 

[charl_huntress]

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...needs-to-fit-wbs-planned-dc-universe-20131112

http://collider.com/justice-league-dark-guillermo-del-toro-dc-universe/


I meant this. Guillermo del Toro (Pacific Rim, Hellboy movies) has been developing and attached to direct on a film the unites the DC Universe's supernatural characters (Constantine, Zatanna, Deadman and so on) in one film that IS going to be part of the shared DC Universe on film (started with MOS). The project is known as Justice League Dark. What this means is:

1. MOS wasn't Superman Begins, but DC Universe on Film nº 0.

2. Supernatural characters (demons, hell, heaven and all that stuff) and magic DO exist within the DC Universe on film started by MOS, and are being actively developed by WB and one of their star directors.

Thanks for posting that. I don't think this will get off the ground to be honest, but we'll see. As for the supernatural characters....meh. DC may have screwed themselves by going the gritty route and you can't change the game in the middle of the inning. They are going to have to roll with the tough, gritty realistic world they created. If they choose to add magic and hocus pocus to that world without laying a foundation that will work with in then it will be to their detriment and the detriment of the DCU they are trying to get off the ground. They should have thought this through...really.

 

[Alonsovich]

It remains to be seen if David Goyer allows Guillermo Del Toro to implement his vision.

We know that GDT wants to make the movie and has invested some time into it, it doesn't follow that he will have the opportunity to make it. Pacific Rim was probably a money loser as it made 100 million in North America on a 190 million dollar budget, which doesn't bode well for his creative freedom.

Further, for all we know, GDT might have 20 projects in development, and he won't pick to do all of them even if given a budget.

Disagree. It did make 305 million overseas. The BO was not as bad as it seems. It's a 400 million WW film that still is selling Blu-Rays/DVDs and with good reviews and word of mouth. Proof? It's getting a sequel written. WB would've never ordered Del Toro and Beacham to do a Pacific Rim 2 script if the first one wasn't profitable. Goyer may be the DCU boss now, but GDT is still a name director at WB, and I'm not entirely sure just one of his movies being just profitable will make his position at WB weak. Zack Snyder came from that disaster named Sucker Punch at WB just before getting the Superman franchise in his hands. If they're planning a Dark DCU as well (and all indicates they are), I can't see how would GDT not be involved in it... he IS still the most experienced and successful director at WB in those kind of films.

 

[roach]

Thanks for posting that. I don't think this will get off the ground to be honest, but we'll see. As for the supernatural characters....meh. DC may have screwed themselves by going the gritty route and you can't change the game in the middle of the inning. They are going to have to roll with the tough, gritty realistic world they created. If they choose to add magic and hocus pocus to that world without laying a foundation that will work with in then it will be to their detriment and the detriment of the DCU they are trying to get off the ground. They should have thought this through...really.

There was nothing tough and/or gritty about Man Of Steel. It presented it subject matter 'realistically'. When and if the intro magic they would have to treat it like they treated science. Nothing about MOS told me they could not do magic…unlike the Nolan bat films where nothing extraordinary happened.

 

[Alonsovich]

There was nothing tough and/or gritty about Man Of Steel. It presented it subject matter 'realistically'. When and if the intro magic they would have to treat it like they treated science. Nothing about MOS told me they could not do magic…unlike the Nolan bat films where nothing extraordinary happened.

^This. Grounded and gritty does not equal realistic.

 

[charl_huntress]

There was nothing tough and/or gritty about Man Of Steel. It presented it subject matter 'realistically'. When and if the intro magic they would have to treat it like they treated science. Nothing about MOS told me they could not do magic…unlike the Nolan bat films where nothing extraordinary happened.

Very true. Extraordinary things did happen, but as I have said before it's the tone of the film which would make that sort of appearance unexpected. The tone of the film is gritty (color-washed) and realistic. Yes, magic can be done, but the tone doesn't really lend to that. MOS was very much a sci-fi film. If hocus pocus like magic is added then it will have to be done in a way that is "realistic" or it won't fit. DC's gallery of supernatural heroes are full of fantastic, unrealistic characters who won't fit in this grounded, realistic world without being reworked in some fashion. Again, not saying it can't be done, but for me this shows that the grand master plan wasn't really thought through.

 

[roach]

Very true. Extraordinary things did happen, but as I have said before it's the tone of the film which would make that sort of appearance unexpected. The tone of the film is gritty (color-washed) and realistic. Yes, magic can be done, but the tone doesn't really lend to that. MOS was very much a sci-fi film. If hocus pocus like magic is added then it will have to be done in a way that is "realistic" or it won't fit. DC's gallery of supernatural heroes are full of fantastic, unrealistic characters who won't fit in this grounded, realistic world without being reworked in some fashion. Again, not saying it can't be done, but for me this shows that the grand master plan wasn't really thought through.

Magic can be done. It just has to be done the same what science was done in this movie…it can't be Lord of The Rings Magic or Harry Potter magic.

 

[charl_huntress]

Magic can be done. It just has to be done the same what science was done in this movie…it can't be Lord of The Rings Magic or Harry Potter magic.

I have said it can be done. We agree on that remember. It's how it's done and how it's incorporated that will be the question. They will have to rework some characters since some of them are like something from LOTR or Harry Potter.

 

[Wise]

I think Goyer is good at generating ideas and making silly concepts seem believable, but he really needs support in regards to dialogue and character development.

Please WB, give Ben a shot at the dialogue in this one. Or better yet, bring in a co-writer like David Hayter who has experience with crowded superhero movies and writing better dialogue.

 

[charl_huntress]

I will agree about Goyer and the dialogue. That needs some work...lol. The language is so stiff. Normal people don't talk that like that.