BvS It's always Darkest before The Dawn... Chris Terrio IS the Script Writer - Part 1

I honestly think replacing Goyer with Terrio is the single decision that will make the biggest difference to the quality of this movie. No casting decision even comes close. I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but it's Terrio's inclusion that makes it possible for this movie to get critical as well as financial success.
 
I honestly think replacing Goyer with Terrio is the single decision that will make the biggest difference to the quality of this movie. No casting decision even comes close. I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but it's Terrio's inclusion that makes it possible for this movie to get critical as well as financial success.

I agree.
 
For me it felt like the ubiquitous, obligatory kiss scenes from the old action films of the '80s, where even though there's been next to no romantic development between the two characters, they kiss just because....because.

I feel the cornfield scene had enough romantic tension to suffice in the movie. Perhaps they shoehorned a kiss in so they could be different from Superman '78. There was something between them a connection of sorts and I can understand someone jumping the gun and going straight to a make out session after you nearly died, but it just didn't work in this context.
 
I honestly think replacing Goyer with Terrio is the single decision that will make the biggest difference to the quality of this movie. No casting decision even comes close. I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but it's Terrio's inclusion that makes it possible for this movie to get critical as well as financial success.

This, 100% this.
 
I honestly think replacing Goyer with Terrio is the single decision that will make the biggest difference to the quality of this movie. No casting decision even comes close. I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but it's Terrio's inclusion that makes it possible for this movie to get critical as well as financial success.

Agreed.
 
I like Terrio, I'm glad he's on board with the DCEU, I love what we've heard so far from the movie, but I'll always have respect for Goyer for writing my favorite CB movies (so far) - Blade, Batman Begins and Man of Steel. You may not like him, but he IS co-writer for Dawn of Justice and both Justice League films.
 
I like Terrio, I'm glad he's on board with the DCEU, I love what we've heard so far from the movie, but I'll always have respect for Goyer for writing my favorite CB movies (so far) - Blade, Batman Begins and Man of Steel. You may not like him, but he IS co-writer for Dawn of Justice and both Justice League films.

Where did you get that info? As far as I know, he's getting story credit for BvS and isn't involved with JL at all.
 
I read that over a year ago, so I'll admit things have changed since then, I'm sure. His involvement now is probably similar to TDK and TDKR, where he wrote the story, but not the script.
 
As far as I know, Goyer is no longer attached to the DCEU only DCTVU with Krypton.
 
I like Terrio, I'm glad he's on board with the DCEU, I love what we've heard so far from the movie, but I'll always have respect for Goyer for writing my favorite CB movies (so far) - Blade, Batman Begins and Man of Steel. You may not like him, but he IS co-writer for Dawn of Justice and both Justice League films.

I don't dislike Goyer by any stretch, but I think his talent lies more in the story-arc and the internal universe. His ideas are fantastic but I think he needs someone a little more sophisticated and nuanced to articulate finer points, which I think Terrio can do.

MoS is probably the CBM that resonated the most with me, while I'd say MoS/TDKT and Winter Soldier are the ones I enjoyed watching most, but at the same time it was clear that some of MoS's downfalls had Goyer written all over them. That could've possibly been a definitive entry in the Supes movies but its dialogue and pacing detracted from it slightly. I'm hoping that with Terrio's inclusion the solid ideas that Goyer has can be refined by Terrio so that BvS has a more streamlined and higher quality narrative.

I'm a huge fan of MoS, so much so that it's flaws don't particularly bother me because I think I grasp what they were aiming for, but if BvS is going to be the financial success that serves as a launchpad for the DCCU then Terrio's involvement could be crucial to achieve it.
 
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I don't dislike Goyer by any stretch, but I think his talent lies more in the story-arc and the internal universe. His ideas are fantastic but I think he needs someone a little more sophisticated and nuanced to articulate finer points, which I think Terrio can do.

MoS is probably the CBM that resonated the most with me, while I'd say MoS/TDKT and Winter Soldier are the ones I enjoyed watching most, but at the same time it was clear that some of MoS's downfalls had Goyer written all over them. That could've possibly been a definitive entry in the Supes movies but its dialogue and pacing detracted from it slightly. I'm hoping that with Terrio's inclusion the solid ideas that Goyer has can be refined by Terrio so that BvS has a more streamlined and higher quality narrative.

I'm a huge fan of MoS, so much so that it's flaws don't particularly bother me because I think I grasp what they were aiming for, but if BvS is going to be the financial success that serves as a launchpad for the DCCU then Terrio's involvement could be crucial to achieve it.

This! Like...exactly this. We should be friends. :p
 
Goyer's dialogue is not great, yeah, but it's not as bad as some people are making it out to be. There is one particular line that I find bad - "Wait. You could die, at least tell me your name". Add to that Katie Holmes not great acting and delivery and it's even worse. But which movie doesn't have a bad line here and there ? Hell, I even read a few comments that the dialogue in BvS sounds cheesy.
 
Why does every writing thread devolve into complaints about the same four or five lines in MOS people didn't like? As if dialogue is the only measure of writing quality...
 
Why does every writing thread devolve into complaints about the same four or five lines in MOS people didn't like? As if dialogue is the only measure of writing quality...

My biggest issue with the writing isn't really the dialogue, some of the well-worn mentions are a little eye-roll worthy while you're watching, but nothing beyond that. My biggest gripe is the pacing of the sequences after Supes dons his outfit for the first time. It feels a little rushed and bloated at the same time, and as though a few of the scenes could've maybe been sequenced differently or shortened (which may be down to editing, and not Goyer's responsibility) to create a slightly neater package. Whenever I watch MoS I'm pretty into it until Kal gets into the suit, and after that it just feels a little underwhelming.

Again, I wouldn't say Goyer butchered it by any stretch, but IMO Terrio's aptitude lies in doing exactly the things Goyer fell short with in MoS. It couldn't have worked out better than having Goyer provide a mould with his ideas, that Terrio could then refine and sculpt into a higher quality script. Another major gripe I'd have, irrespective of who's responsible, is how rushed and fabricated a lot of Lois and Kal's interactions were. That needed a bit more subtlety.
 
Why does every writing thread devolve into complaints about the same four or five lines in MOS people didn't like? As if dialogue is the only measure of writing quality...

It's the modern age, people would rather focus on the negatives of something rather than the positives, tbh it's getting really boring.
 
It would be ironic if any of the dialogue fans liked so far came from Goyer.
 
My biggest issue with the writing isn't really the dialogue, some of the well-worn mentions are a little eye-roll worthy while you're watching, but nothing beyond that. My biggest gripe is the pacing of the sequences after Supes dons his outfit for the first time. It feels a little rushed and bloated at the same time, and as though a few of the scenes could've maybe been sequenced differently or shortened (which may be down to editing, and not Goyer's responsibility) to create a slightly neater package. Whenever I watch MoS I'm pretty into it until Kal gets into the suit, and after that it just feels a little underwhelming.

Again, I wouldn't say Goyer butchered it by any stretch, but IMO Terrio's aptitude lies in doing exactly the things Goyer fell short with in MoS. It couldn't have worked out better than having Goyer provide a mould with his ideas, that Terrio could then refine and sculpt into a higher quality script. Another major gripe I'd have, irrespective of who's responsible, is how rushed and fabricated a lot of Lois and Kal's interactions were. That needed a bit more subtlety.

I agree with this and would add:
- I really feel the extended Krypton intro was bloated and superfluous. Especially, since Jor El recaps it later. I would've preferred if the movie started with the oil rig scene, placing us in the shoes of an outsider looking for his place in the world, rather than giving us his origin right from the start.
- The codex subplot was not fleshed out well.
- I don't like how Lois was shoehorned into every scene.
- I wouldn't change a thing about Pa Kent's characterization. I thought all his scenes were on point, including the tornado scene
 
I don't think Lois was shoehorned into every scene, her presence was explained well IMO. I still think the worst part of MOS was Jonathan's death, whether that was Goyers idea Nolan's idea ...whatever, it was downright stupid and made both Clark and JK look stupid.
I don't recall if I liked the dialogue I heard in MOS trailers, all I can say is that in BvS almost every line from every body is impressive and intriguing; the crown jewel is Lex's explanation of psychotic.
I had my doubt a about Chris only because he had a limited resume even if he did get high praise for his limited work. I worried he could be a one hit wonder type.
 
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-comic-book-movie-debate-1457637539?tesla=y

On “Batman v Superman,” Warner paired Mr. Snyder with Chris Terrio, the “brilliant, brilliant, complicated”—in the words of Mr. Roven—Oscar-winning writer of “Argo,” who did a major rewrite of the script (he shares credit with “Man of Steel” writer David Goyer).
Mr. Terrio is a former student of British literature and phenomenology who dropped out of a masters program at Cambridge University to study film. On his first big-budget movie, he cites as influences not just Frank Miller’s seminal comic-book miniseries “The Dark Knight Returns” (which features its own Batman-Superman battle) and Mr. Nolan’s trilogy of Batman films. He also invokes Italian semiotician Umberto Eco’s 1972 essay “The Myth of Superman” and the W.H. Auden poem “Musée des Beaux Arts,” which contrasts the quotidian details of normal people’s lives with the epic struggles of mythological figures.
“Given the scale, you would think the whole thing has a corporate stench, but the way we worked there was this quality of, ‘I can’t believe they’re letting us do this,’ ” Mr. Terrio said.


The screenwriter went to great lengths to establish the movie’s titular conflict as more than the traditional comic-book gimmick of two superheroes tricked by a villain.
“Batman v Superman’s” opening sequence replays the final moments of “Man of Steel,” a sky-high brawl between Superman and Kryptonian villain General Zod, from the perspective of a civilian on the ground: Bruce Wayne.



In the 2012 movie, the scene was widely panned for portraying Superman as too violent and unconcerned about collateral damage. Mr. Affleck’s character agrees, drawing implicit comparisons to military drones and even 9-11 as he impotently watches the destruction of a Wayne Enterprises building in which his employees are maimed and die.




The likening of Henry Cavill’s Superman to a self-righteous military interventionist continues when he rescues Amy Adams’s Lois Lane from a reporting trip gone wrong in Africa. He is blamed for more collateral damage there.
Mr. Affleck’s Batman, on the other hand, makes Christian Bale’s version of the character in Mr. Nolan’s movies look like a pushover. A grizzled 40-something who seems on the verge of retirement, death or a mental breakdown, he literally brands enemies with the symbol of a bat and scares police as much as criminals. Clark Kent accuses him of a “reign of terror” in Gotham City.
“In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky,” observed Mr. Terrio. “That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence.”
“Batman v Superman” is still an “event” movie, meaning it features plenty of over-the-top action scenes, shot in Mr. Snyder’s trademark hyper-stylized manner. It also features an uber-bad guy in the form of Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor, reimagined as a young tech billionaire who can’t stand being upstaged by superheroes: Think Mark Zuckerberg (whom Mr. Eisenberg played in “The Social Network”) with a psychopathic streak.
Israeli actress Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman, meanwhile, is a centuries-old mythological heroine who is drawn into Batman and Superman’s conflict. Like every superhero here, she already exists in the world—so no origin story is needed.


“If you bring in a character in a kinetic way, then you accept the reality more easily,” said Mr. Terrio.
The same approach will largely be followed in future DC films, said Mr. Roven. August’s “Suicide Squad” features a team of veteran villains. While next year’s Wonder Woman flashes back to the superheroine’s early days, 2018’s “Flash” and “Aquaman” will continue the characters’ stories from team-up movie “Justice League,” which opens in November of 2017.


The end of “Batman v Superman” provides a natural starting point for “Justice League,” but the DC movies are not as tightly woven as those made by Marvel.
“The artists are all communicating with each other,” said Mr. Silverman. “I think if you have a studio dictating where you’re going to be in six or seven years, the movies lose some of their magic.”
Mr. Terrio recently finished his script for “Justice League,” which starts shooting next month, giving him a key role defining the big- screen versions of DC superheroes. To prepare, the writer says he studied red- and blueshifts in electromagnetic physics to think about the Flash, investigated deep sea biology in the Mariana trench to create the world of Aquaman and read the Greek historian Diodorus of Sicily’s account of the war between Amazon and Atlantis to better understand Wonder Woman.
“If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would have said you were crazy,” the screenwriter said.
 
^ He's dramaturging the superhero genre?

tumblr_m5xtkwgawk1r7p94h.gif
 
For curious readers, here's the full (translated) read of "The Myth of Superman" essay referenced by Terrio:

http://comicsstudies.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/50572544/eco-superman.pdf

The French poem about human indifference to suffering:

http://poetrypages.lemon8.nl/life/musee/museebeauxarts.htm

The painting which provides context to the poem (pay attention to bottom-right corner):

Pieter_Bruegel_de_Oude_-_De_val_van_Icarus.jpg



I'm only missing the Amazon/Atlantis war analysis by Diodorus. If anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be most appreciated.

Potentially all heavy stuff to be incorporated into BvS and beyond. Terrio might be the DCEU's brightest gift yet.
 
Terrio is gold for these guys. Its like he was a converted comic geek. Love this guy.

Corporate Stench! Thats my favourite new thing to say lol
 
^ I think the greatest thing about Terrio is that he doesn't think he's ABOVE comic mythology, but he treats it like a set of legends like the earliest myths.

That's how we know we're in for something epic :)
 

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