BvS It's always Darkest before The Dawn... Chris Terrio IS the Script Writer - Part 1

[dario2739]

I'm only missing the Amazon/Atlantis war analysis by Diodorus. If anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be most appreciated.

DIODORUS SICULUS ON THE ATLANTIAN-AMAZON WAR
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 3. 53. 1 - 55. 3 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"We are told, namely, that there was once in the western parts of Libya, on the bounds of the inhabited world, a race which was ruled by women and followed a manner of life unlike that which prevails among us. For it was the custom among them that the women should practise the arts of war and be required to serve in the army for a fixed period, during which time they maintained their virginity . . .
As mythology relates, their home was on an island which, because it was in the west, was called Hespera (Evening), and it lay in the marsh Tritonis. This marsh was near Okeanos which surrounds the earth and received its name from a certain river Triton which emptied into it; and this marsh was also near Aithiopia and that mountain by the shore of Okeanos which is the highest of those in the vicinity and impinges upon Okeanos and is called by the Greeks Atlas. The island mentioned above was of great size and full of fruit-bearing trees of every kind, from which the natives secured their food . . .
The Amazones, then, the account continues, being a race superior in valour and eager for war, first of all subdued all the cities on the island except one called Menê (Moon), which was considered to be sacred and was inhabited by Aithiopian Ikhthyophagoi, and was also subject to great eruptions of fire and possessed a multitude of the precious stones which the Greeks call anthrax, sardion, and smaragdos; and after this they subdued many of the neighbouring Libyans and nomad tribes, and founded within the marsh Tritonis a great city which they named Kheronesos (Peninsular) after its shape.
Setting out from the city of Kherronesos, the account continues, the Amazones embarked upon great ventures, a longing having come over them to invade many parts of the inhabited world. The first people against whom they advanced, according to the tale, was the Atlantioi (Atlantians), the most civilized men among the inhabitants of those regions, who dwelt in a prosperous country and possessed great cities; it was among them, we are told, that mythology places the birth of the gods, in the regions which lie along the shore of Okeanos, in this respect agreeing with those among the Greeks who relate legends, and about this we shall speak in detail a little later.
Now the queen of the Amazones, Myrina, collected, it is said, an army of thirty thousand foot-soldiers and three thousand cavalry, since they favoured to an unusual degree the use of cavalry in their wars. For protective devices they used the skins of large snakes, since Libya contains such animals of incredible size, and for offensive weapons, swords and lances; they also used bows and arrows, with which they struck not only when facing the enemy but also when in flight, by shooting backwards at their pursuers with good effect. Upon entering the land of the Atlantioi (Atlantians) they defeated in a pitched battle the inhabitants of the city of Kernê, as it is called, and making their way inside the walls along with the fleeing enemy, they got the city into their hands; and desiring to strike terror into the neighbouring peoples they treated the captives savagely, put to the sword the men from the youth upward, led into slavery the children and women, and razed the city. But when the terrible fate of the inhabitants of Kernê became known among their fellow tribesmen, it is related that the Atlantioi (Atlantians), struck with terror, surrendered their cities on terms of capitulation and announced that they would do whatever should be commanded them, and that the queen Myrina, bearing herself honourably towards the Atlantioi, both established friendship with them and founded a city to bear her name [i.e. Myrina] in place of the city which had been razed; and in it she settled both the captives and any native who so desired. Whereupon the Atlantioi presented her with magnificent presents and by public decree voted to her notable honours, and she in return accepted their courtesy and in addition promised that she would show kindness to their nation. And since the natives were often being warred upon by the Gorgones, as they were named, a folk which resided upon their borders, and in general had that people lying in wait to injure them, Myrina, they say, was asked by the Atlantioi to invade the land of the afore-mentioned Gorgones. But when the Gorgones drew up their forces to resist them a mighty battle took place in which the Amazones, gaining the upper hand, slew great numbers of their opponents and took no fewer than three thousand prisoners; and since the rest had fled for refuge into a certain wooded region, Myrina undertook to set fire to the timber, being eager to destroy the race utterly, but when she found that she was unable to succeed in her attempt she retired to the borders of her country . . .
The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the coruse of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards Okeanos were torn asunder.”
[N.B. For the Libyan Amazones, Diodorus combines accounts of the mythical Hesperides and the legendary women warriors of the Makhlyes tribe of Lake Tritonis. The Gorgones are based on the monsters encountered by the hero Perseus, who is actually mentioned in the passage which follows. Here he encounters the Gorgon tribe some time after the Amazon-Atlantian-Gorgon war occurred. Herakles is mentioned in the same context visiting the Hesperides. The Atlantians are either an indigenous people dwelling about Mount Atlas in North Africa or are based on the Phoenician colonies of the region. Diodorus also refers to Plato's story of the sinking of Atlantis in the last line of the passage quoted above. The unusual combination of myths and legends is an Hellenistic Greek attempt to rationalize a variety of stories and present them as true history.]

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=4894.0

 

[Dninx64]

^ I think the greatest thing about Terrio is that he doesn't think he's ABOVE comic mythology, but he treats it like a set of legends like the earliest myths.

That's how we know we're in for something epic

That fact not only he wrote BvS and JL, he took part in creating the long-vision of DCEU says a lot about how seriously WB is about making sure this succeeds.

 

[RadioSha]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-comic-book-movie-debate-1457637539?tesla=y

The link allows me to subscribe. I can't read anything

 

[jokesonm3]

The link allows me to subscribe. I can't read anything

Here ya go.

The Great Comic-Book Movie Debate
‘Batman v Superman’ is just the start of a complex battleplan. Is there room for DC?

By BEN FRITZ
March 10, 2016 2:19 p.m. ET

‘Batman v Superman’ is another superhero sequel. It’s a clash of cultural icons. It’s about the politics of military intervention and terrorism. It’s inspired by W.H. Auden and Umberto Eco. It’s the highest-stakes movie produced by a Hollywood studio since James Cameron’s “Avatar.”

“Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,” opening March 25, is all these things and more: a 2½-hour, $250 million collection of Hollywood contradictions that could rise above the din of comic book adaptations or sink under its own bloated weight.

On its face, the movie seems like the most cynical of exercises: How to follow up 2013’s “Man of Steel,” which received mixed critical reviews, mixed reactions from fans, and mixed results at the box office ($668 million being, by big-budget superhero standards, not all that impressive these days)?

The answer: Make the follow-up even bigger! Bring back Batman, last seen in Christopher Nolan’s 2012, trilogy-ending “The Dark Knight Rises.” Cast Ben Affleck as the caped crusader! Make them fight! But why just two superheroes? Let’s introduce Wonder Woman! And give brief glimpses of characters like Aquaman, Cyborg and Flash, who will soon get their own movies.

It’s not just a sequel and not just a superhero Battle Royal. It’s the launch of a new “cinematic universe,” Hollywood-speak for a series of interconnected movies in which characters coexist and stories interweave. Disney’s Marvel pioneered the concept to great success and now Warner Bros. has boldly announced 10 DC movies to be released over the next five years.

All of those films flow out of the plot and characters established in “Batman v Superman.” If any of them are going to work, and Warner’s multibillion-dollar plan is to succeed, this one has to be a hit.

“While each movie stands alone, they’re all part of one long arc of storytelling,” said producer Charles Roven.
No pressure, in other words.

“Batman v Superman” comes amid hints that audiences are tiring of traditional superhero films. The last two releases were August’s mega-flop “Fantastic Four” and last month’s surprise blockbuster “Deadpool,” which succeeded by sending up every convention of the genre.

In contrast to “Deadpool,” “Batman v Superman” is deadly serious, continuing a pattern set in “Batman Begins” of trying to ground DC movies in what Warner production chief Greg Silverman calls “the big emotions of the human experience.” “Fun” and “family-friendly” won’t be the first words most people use after seeing a film that’s more revenge tragedy than brainless slugfest.

Still, audience interest is strong two weeks ahead of the picture’s debut, with research indicating it will open to about $140 million— perhaps slightly above the minimum Warner needs to declare it a bona fide blockbuster.

When kicking off the equivalent of a five-year plan, one might expect the studio to keep a dictatorial grip on the creative process. But though it’s the industry’s biggest studio, Warner has also earned a reputation as the most accommodating to filmmakers.

It’s the studio that last year allowed George Miller to soar with “Mad Max: Fury Road” and the Wachowskis to crash and burn with “Jupiter Ascending.” It has been the home of “Man of Steel” director Zack Snyder for a decade, through hits like “300” and flops like “Sucker Punch.”

On “Batman v Superman,” Warner paired Mr. Snyder with Chris Terrio, the “brilliant, brilliant, complicated”—in the words of Mr. Roven—Oscar-winning writer of “Argo,” who did a major rewrite of the script (he shares credit with “Man of Steel” writer David Goyer).

Mr. Terrio is a former student of British literature and phenomenology who dropped out of a masters program at Cambridge University to study film. On his first big-budget movie, he cites as influences not just Frank Miller’s seminal comic-book miniseries “The Dark Knight Returns” (which features its own Batman-Superman battle) and Mr. Nolan’s trilogy of Batman films. He also invokes Italian semiotician Umberto Eco’s 1972 essay “The Myth of Superman” and the W.H. Auden poem “Musée des Beaux Arts,” which contrasts the quotidian details of normal people’s lives with the epic struggles of mythological figures.

“Given the scale, you would think the whole thing has a corporate stench, but the way we worked there was this quality of, ‘I can’t believe they’re letting us do this,’” Mr. Terrio said.

The screenwriter went to great lengths to establish the movie’s titular conflict as more than the traditional comic-book gimmick of two superheroes tricked by a villain.

“Batman v Superman’s” opening sequence replays the final moments of “Man of Steel,” a sky-high brawl between Superman and Kryptonian villain General Zod, from the perspective of a civilian on the ground: Bruce Wayne.

In the 2012 movie, the scene was widely panned for portraying Superman as too violent and unconcerned about collateral damage. Mr. Affleck’s character agrees, drawing implicit comparisons to military drones and even 9-11 as he impotently watches the destruction of a Wayne Enterprises building in which his employees are maimed and die.

The likening of Henry Cavill’s Superman to a self-righteous military interventionist continues when he rescues Amy Adams’s Lois Lane from a reporting trip gone wrong in Africa. He is blamed for more collateral damage there.

Mr. Affleck’s Batman, on the other hand, makes Christian Bale’s version of the character in Mr. Nolan’s movies look like a pushover. A grizzled 40-something who seems on the verge of retirement, death or a mental breakdown, he literally brands enemies with the symbol of a bat and scares police as much as criminals. Clark Kent accuses him of a “reign of terror” in Gotham City.

“In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky,” observed Mr. Terrio. “That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence.”

“Batman v Superman” is still an “event” movie, meaning it features plenty of over-the-top action scenes, shot in Mr. Snyder’s trademark hyper-stylized manner. It also features an uber-bad guy in the form of Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor, reimagined as a young tech billionaire who can’t stand being upstaged by superheroes: Think Mark Zuckerberg (whom Mr. Eisenberg played in “The Social Network”) with a psychopathic streak.

Israeli actress Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman, meanwhile, is a centuries-old mythological heroine who is drawn into Batman and Superman’s conflict. Like every superhero here, she already exists in the world—so no origin story is needed.

“If you bring in a character in a kinetic way, then you accept the reality more easily,” said Mr. Terrio.

The same approach will largely be followed in future DC films, said Mr. Roven. August’s “Suicide Squad” features a team of veteran villains. While next year’s Wonder Woman flashes back to the superheroine’s early days, 2018’s “Flash” and “Aquaman” will continue the characters’ stories from team-up movie “Justice League,” which opens in November of 2017.

The end of “Batman v Superman” provides a natural starting point for “Justice League,” but the DC movies are not as tightly woven as those made by Marvel.

“The artists are all communicating with each other,” said Mr. Silverman. “I think if you have a studio dictating where you’re going to be in six or seven years, the movies lose some of their magic.”

Mr. Terrio recently finished his script for “Justice League,” which starts shooting next month, giving him a key role defining the big- screen versions of DC superheroes. To prepare, the writer says he studied red- and blueshifts in electromagnetic physics to think about the Flash, investigated deep sea biology in the Mariana trench to create the world of Aquaman, and read the Greek historian Diodorus of Sicily’s account of the war between Amazon and Atlantis to better understand Wonder Woman.

“If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would have said you were crazy,” the screenwriter said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-comic-book-movie-debate-1457637539?tesla=y

 

[RadioSha]

Here ya go.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-comic-book-movie-debate-1457637539?tesla=y

Doing lord's work. Much appreciated.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Thanks for the history lesson at the top of the page. I remember vaguely the bits about the Amazones fighting against the Gorgons on behalf of Atlantis. Interesting if it turns out to be part of the history of the DCEU Atlantis and Diana's people.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I enjoyed studying that Fall of Icarus work just before, heavy stuff.

 

[Ahasverus]

Terrio da Gawd. Nothing else to say. He's just brilliant.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I enjoyed studying that Fall of Icarus work just before, heavy stuff.

I think Daedalus and Icarus can really work for Silas Stone and Cyborg. Silas might fear that his son is flying too close to the sun. The resulting fall can represent Vic's struggle with his loss of humanity. When you lose your ability to feel you become detached and cold. Things that were "wrong" or things that you worried about, or even basic human compassion are called into question when you're as much machine as man and can do things that normal humans can't.

Just spit balling.

 

[False Prophet]

I have to see Argo this weekend. HAVE TO.

 

[rogbngp]

“In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky,” observed Mr. Terrio. “That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence.”

Here ya go.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-comic-book-movie-debate-1457637539?tesla=y

Here again is Snyder's project of working... in a very sophisticated way, I think... with the mythology (in the Jungian sense that Joseph Campbell delves into) of the characters. What Snyder started in MoS was to examine how the Superman myth would look if such a figure showed up in our actual word today (see here). That continues in BvS but we have a new layer to explore: superheroes interacting.

I believe that in MoS that focus is on how Superman exists as a kind of ego ideal for American culture. And I do expect that to continue, for both Superman and Batman in BvS. But in BvS, as Snyder has said multiple times (and I think Affleck and Cavill as well), the superheroes are reacting to becoming aware of each other's existence. The focus shifts to the nature of what the comic book fantasy of a pantheon of modern day gods represents for our cultural psyche. The themes of the sometimes daunting problem of 'how to be the good guy' in the real world where no perfect solutions exist will continue, and I think Batman and Superman will be shown to represent to sides of that coin that are contradictory, and that humanity eternally struggles to reconcile.

But anyway, I love looking at Batman as our modern day version of Hades and Superman as our version of Apollo. I'm excited thinking about how that will show up in the film, and what sorts of themes and imagery will be used to draw out that association.

 

[rogbngp]

I have to see Argo this weekend. HAVE TO.

And if by some chance you haven't seen The Town, that is even more must-see imho.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I have to see Argo this weekend. HAVE TO.

Go buy the Argo/The Town Double DVD. Two for the price of one!

 

[morningmimosa]

The first time I watched Argo, its opening scene had me on the edge of my seat. The tension was crazy.

 

[moviefreak]

Terrio's reading materials:

Diodorus Siculus: The Library of History - English translation from Greek text - all public domain:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/home.html

Amazom myth: from p247 -

excerpt:

We are told, namely, that there was once on the western parts of Libya, on the bounds of the inhabited world, a race which was ruled by women and followed a manner of life unlike that which prevails among us. For it was the custom among them that the women should practise the arts of war and be required to serve in the army for a fixed period, during which time they maintained their virginity; then, when the years of their service in the field had expired, they went in to the men for the procreation of children, but they kept in their hands the administration of the magistracies and of all the affairs of the state. 2 The men, however, like our married women, spent their days about the house, carrying out the orders which were given them by their wives; and they took no part in military campaigns or in office or in the exercise of free citizenship9 in the affairs of the community by virtue of which they might become presumptuous and rise up against the women. 3 When their children were born the babies were turned over to the men, who brought them up on milk and such cooked foods as were appropriate to the age of the infants; and if it happened that a girl was born, its breasts were p251seared that they might not develop at the time of maturity; for they thought that the breasts, as they stood out from the body, were no small hindrance in warfare; and in fact it is because they have been deprived of their breasts that they are called by the Greeks Amazons

 

[False Prophet]

The Town and Argo...will do!

 

[Fallen Angel]

Part 2 of the Terrio interview. http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016...ision-for-batman-superman-and-justice-league/

Chris Terrio doesn’t have a resume that screams “superheroes!” Prior to co-writing “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” (he shares credit with “Man of Steel” scribe David Goyer), Terrio won an Oscar for his first major studio movie, “Argo.”
Read more: High Stakes for Warner Bros. With “Batman v Superman”
His earlier career was writing and directing independent films, which he started after leaving a masters program at Cambridge University, where he studied British literature and phenomenology.
Terrio, who recently finished his script for next year’s “Justice League” and is now working on a play and developing a series for Netflix, spoke to The Wall Street Journal about his work on the DC cinematic universe. Edited excerpts follow.
What’s your background in comic books, if any, and what were your inspirations for this movie?
The first movie I ever saw was “Superman 2.” I almost drowned in a pool at age four playing Aquaman.
I went away from comics for most of my life. But I stayed on top of super-hero movies. The ones that intrigued me the most were the [Christopher] Nolan’s films. They were ways of asking interesting questions in a genre form. We stand on the shoulders of those films in a way. Nolan helped establish a space in which super-hero movies can be taken more seriously. We thought a lot about those films, to a point where I had to stop watching “The Dark Knight” because I found I was rewriting it.


It’s impossible to know everything in the DC universe, but I threw myself into it and tried to learn as much as possible and I found such intelligence in so many of the comics. Obviously Frank Miller is a well-known and respected writer who influences this film very directly. Also writers like Grant Morrison, who asks difficult philosophical questions in an extremely smart way. I tried to take in as much as I could while also keeping a little bit of an outsider’s eye.
How did you think about the roots of a Batman-Superman conflict?
It’s almost archetypal. In Batman’s origin [the murder of his parents], the primary thing I was thinking about is the fact he falls. It’s the primary metaphor for Western literature: There was a moment before and then everything fell. That brings up questions of Superman.
I began to think Batman and Superman occupy different parts of the mythic imagination. In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky. That began to be really interesting to me — that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence. In the end, there’s a common humanity which I think is discovered at a certain moment in the film.


You don’t spend much time retelling origins for Wonder Woman or your new version of Batman.
After “Man of Steel,” I didn’t want to have this moment where you say, “Batman exists in this world, we forgot to tell you.” We’re saying, “No he’s been here the whole time.”
With [Wonder Woman alter ego] Diana Prince, I thought it would be better if we met her as a civilian first and involved her in the plot in a way that felt like a thriller. She’s a mysterious woman interested in the same things Bruce Wayne is.
The fun of it is if you don’t immediately reveal her in superhero guise, so you get to revel in the moment when she finally does reveal herself. If you bring in a character in a kinetic way, then you accept the reality more easily.
Was there any question in your mind you’d write “Justice League” as well?
I initially thought I wasn’t the guy to do “Justice League” and went off to work on something else. But the first day I went to the set, I saw Jesse [Eisenberg] in a scene with Holly Hunter and I really did feel like I was watching some strange, great performance in an independent film.
At that moment, I thought, “I’m not done with this yet. I want to go back and keep telling the story.” “Batman v Superman” is a bit of an “Empire Strikes Back” or “Two Towers” or any similar middle film in a trilogy.

The middle film tends to be the darkest one. I do think from “Man of Steel” through “Justice League,” it is one saga really.
I expect “Justice League” will be tonally not quite as dark as “Batman v Superman.” From that point of view, I felt compelled to go back and try to lift us and myself into a different tonal place because I think when you write a darker film, sometimes you want to redeem it all a bit.
There are many more DC movies to come, including a second “Justice League.” Will you be writing more?

I have written “Justice League Part One,” but I won’t necessarily write “Part Two.” This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For “Batman v Superman,” I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For “Justice League,” I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench.
If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.

 

[rogbngp]

Cool, I'm sure we can add TDK from the TDKT to that list of middle films of trilogies.

 

[STARMAN]

I've been waiting to hear from Terrio ever since we learned he was writing BvS. Some interesting tidbits from the second part of that interview.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Terrio seems like a fascinating guy.

(Supes is totally gonna die btw)

 

[Jumpman]

I've been waiting to hear from Terrio ever since we learned he was writing BvS. Some interesting tidbits from the second part of that interview.

The one saga comment is interesting. Is JL 2 apart of that or is he only talking about JL 1?

 

[rogbngp]

The one saga comment is interesting. Is JL 2 apart of that or is he only talking about JL 1?

Yes, he's talking about JL 1, which he has completed the script for. Says he isn't sure if he will pen JL 2. He regards MoS, BvS, and JL 1 as a trilogy--kind of like one big story, sounds like. A saga a la LoTR, presumably.

Man, the more I think about that the more I like it. Because since BvS started coming into focus I have been looking at MoS as akin to FotR. It needs to be appreciated in the context of the continuing story.

 

[Jumpman]

Yes, he's talking ab out JL 1, which he has completed the script for. Says he isn't sure if he will pen JL 2. He regards MoS, BvS, and JL 1 as a trilogy--kind of like one big story, sounds like. A la LoTR, presumably.

Man, the more i think about that the more I like it. Because since BvS started coming into focus I have been looking at MoS as akin to FotR.

Then that means these films aren't JL PART 1 and JL PART 2. They're not a two part story. That second JL film might be the start or middle section of a new story. Either way, all very interesting.

 

[False Prophet]

I love the idea of a multi-movie story arc in the mode of modern television.

 

[rogbngp]

Then that means these films aren't JL PART 1 and JL PART 2. They're not a two part story. That second JL film might be the start or middle section of a new story. Either way, all very interesting.

Yeah, maybe. Either that or he's content with just writing the two films and leaving the second installment of JL to someone else.

But the titles Part 1 and Part 2 certainly does suggest that together they form a whole story together in their own right.

It all feels kinda non-linear. But maybe that'll reflect a multiverse theme, who knows!