BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 3

[vantheman77]

I'm trying to find what Neal Adams said, but Stan Lee said that only a nut would think that She-Hulk is a porn star.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Stan said:

Why Stan Lee created She-Hulk: I know I was looking for a new female superhero, and the idea of an intelligent Hulk-type grabbed me.

She-Hulk's purpose in the comics: Never for an instant did I want her as a love interest for Hulk. Only a nut would even think of that.

She-Hulk's muscular physique: As for her looking beautiful and curvy, show me the superheroine who isn’t.

Now what did Neal say?

 

[Marvin]

reactions to a joke?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Fixed:

I hope that the success of Blade, Batman Begins, and MoS hasn't got to Goyer's head.

To me, Terrio is my greatest hope for the movie, with Goyer as my worst fear. Snyder's kind of caught in the middle for me

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

It's not a funny joke.

Michael Richards had a racial slur while doing stand up in the 90s, now look at him.

It was just a joke he was telling though.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

 

[EssayM]

So only comedians can make jokes?

I'm not saying he can't make jokes. I'm saying the jokes he DID make were a bit out of character for a guy who's always pushed for comic book characters to be taken seriously, and that they make it seem like he's talking down to comics fans. That's all.

 

[The Guard]

They shouldn't, though.

Unless you ignore the context of his statements and make assumptions about what he means, instead of using the context of his statements to do so.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

It's not a funny joke.

Michael Richards had a racial slur while doing stand up in the 90s, now look at him.

It was just a joke he was telling though.

*2006.

He also apologised for it on TV and lampooned himself in an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm and won a lot of people back for it.

 

[Bruce Malone]

If Goyer had made a similar "joke" at Batman's expense some people's head's here would have exploded.

And yeah Goyer probably knew that, taking cheap shots at characters like She-Hulk and Marian manhunter is easy. He wouldn't have the balls to joke that way about batman or superman.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

*2006.

He also apologised for it on TV and lampooned himself in an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm and won a lot of people back for it.

I always thought it happened shortly after Seinfeld ended. Guess not.

Still people have lost there jobs for simply telling jokes. Goyer is a well known writer because he wrote well known films. He should have just shut up.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

If I worked for a company and made fun of a product that company sells, I would probably be fired. Even if it was a joke.

That's what should happen for Goyer. It's better for everyone that way.

 

[Marvin]

It's not a funny joke.

Michael Richards had a racial slur while doing stand up in the 90s, now look at him.

It was just a joke he was telling though.

Then say it wasn't a funny joke.
Lots of comedians/people make jokes that aren't funny.

If goyer started talking about power girl's cup size and why it is the measurement it is, on a kevin smith pod cast, as it pertains to the mostly male audience that reads comics...

As for suggesting that the only people that know of MM are virgins...would it have been all that better if he just asked how many of these people have lives and took the sex out of the equation? Knowing every single character in star trek continuity sets up for this kind of quip. Hardly the comparable to a Richards tirade.
Is this any different than asking a bunch of people in a 'pi' reciting contest how many of them have sex lives? It's a joke. Something you'd see made in a seth rogan movie and think was funny or silly or harmless.

Richards made a racial slur(wasn't actually part of his bit if I recall), and now he's in trouble for making a racial slur. Making a joke about comic book sex is like making a joke about how any superhero goes to the washroom(never mentioned really). Hardly of the same measure of Richards.

 

[DorneyDave]

Did someone just compare Michael Richards racial slurs with...


making fun of a FICTIONAL MARTIAN CHARACTER.


Good lord.

 

[PacificBoy]

They shouldn't, though.

Unless you ignore the context of his statements and make assumptions about what he means, instead of using the context of his statements to do so.

What's the context of his statements? Just curious, since the remarks seems to be doing the rounds, even saw it on a Time news roundup!

 

[Dispatch Ninja]

Did someone just compare Michael Richards racial slurs with...


making fun of a FICTIONAL MARTIAN CHARACTER.


Good lord.

This. People are reaching here because of their hatred for goyer.

 

[Marvin]

This. People are reaching here because of their hatred for goyer.

I've seen his superman compared to that of a mass murderer.

 

[Rocketman]

This discussion is just bananas

Seriously, holy ****

 

[Mr_336]

They say it wasn't a funny joke.
Lots of comedians/people make jokes that aren't funny.

If goyer started talking about power girl's cup size and why it is the measurement it is, on a kevin smith pod cast, as it pertains to the mostly male audience that reads comics...

As for suggesting that the only people that know of MM are virgins...would it have been all that better if he just asked how many of these people have lives and took the sex out of the equation? Knowing every single character in star trek continuity sets up for this kind of quip. Hardly the comparable to a Richards tirade.
Is this any different than asking a bunch of people in a 'pi' reciting contest how many of them have sex lives? It's a joke. Something you'd see made in a seth rogan movie and think was funny or silly or harmless.

Richards made a racial slur(wasn't actually part of his bit if I recall), and now he's in trouble for making a racial slur. Making a joke about comic book sex is like making a joke about how any superhero goes to the washroom(never mentioned really). Hardly of the same measure of Richards.

Or making a slave rape joke (i.e. Leslie Jones' SNL Weekend Update piece from a few weeks back)

 

[Mr_336]

This. People are reaching here because of their hatred for goyer.

Same for those defending him. Ain't hypocrisy grand?

 

[Dispatch Ninja]

Same for those defending him. Ain't hypocrisy grand?

I don't hate or love goyer. I just think it's kind of ridiculous that his unfunny jokes are putting this many people in an uproar. It's well known that people here and pretty much all over movie forums have a hatred for goyer, so they'll latch onto whatever they can to hate him even more, even jokes about a fictional martian character like the other guy pointed out .

 

[jonathancrane]

Here are my thoughts on the Goyer Subject:

1. He's made WB a f*** ton of money, so there is no chance in hell they are going to drop him. With the exception of the sex life bit, he was talking about fictional characters. This is not like the Scott Lobdell case, where he should have been dropped sooner. They're fictional characters...and yes, while I was one of the people who railed on him for it and the marginalization of female characters, it was all for the raunchy comedy of the podcast. Which leads to my next point.
2. It was a raunchy podcast. It was not like a dead serious panel at SDCC.
3. He's said controversial statements about DC properties in the past. He (and Snyder?) I believe expressed their dislike of the magic glasses Superman has to conceal his identity. There are posters on these boards who were upset about his remarks about them.

4. In terms of the craft, he's an excellent ideas man, who in conjunction with other screenwriters, creates some stellar work. On his own, the work is a mixed bag. MoS for instance: he took made some controversial choices like he did in the comics - such as Superman rejecting his American citizenship-but framed them with a meaty comic context. He didn't play it safe and sterile, but went for the in-your face bold decisions and stood his ground. He didn't back down to fan complaining like another studio did based on a controversial characterization. On this front, his work is damn good. Sure, I whined about it and railed about it, but, after jettisoning Morrison's Superman is Jesus idea, and reading other Superman comics, I've come to respect what he did in MOS.

However, his solo works has flaws, as well. Some of the lines are terrible (anything Faora said) and some of the tone undercuts the drama: the "he's hot" exchange compromised the scene with the military. It was a terrific moment where Superman was standing up against military surveillance and was refusing to be their lapdog, but a lot of the emotional impact was lost with that exchange.

If there is anything to take away, he has a deep knowledge of DC comics-knows more about the Superman property than I probably ever will-and is not afraid to make bold decisions [that have a comic precedent] which also rejuvenate the cinematic franchise. However, his dialogue writing could benefit from polishing, as well as his tendency for needless cutaways (like the utility workers in BB). His best work comes when he's working in a team environment; but, on his own, he's pretty good. I might not always be 100% enthused with the decisions he makes, but, they have a precedent and he stands his ground on them, which I respect.

 

[Glassjaw]

My problem with Goyer is, for someone who works with so many comic book movies, he doesn't seem to have much faith his source material. Why are you tackling Superman if you have no idea how to make Clark Kent work? The answer is in the comics, you're not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just start with the comics and go from there.

 

[jonathancrane]

He and Nolan have a common aesthetic; namely, they prefer to secularize the superhero material when possible. Sure, we have aliens, planet-reformatting machines, and eye-lasers in this universe, but, we won't see the multiple universes, miracle machines, or anti-life equation, under Goyer's pen. There's nothing wrong with that; he restrains the fantastic elements, to help distinguish DC on the marketplace.

 

[EssayM]

He and Nolan have a common aesthetic; namely, they prefer to secularize the superhero material when possible. Sure, we have aliens, planet-reformatting machines, and eye-lasers in this universe, but, we won't see the multiple universes, miracle machines, or anti-life equation, under Goyer's pen. There's nothing wrong with that; he restrains the fantastic elements, to help distinguish DC on the marketplace.

Agreed, but how much of that can you do before you suck all the cool stuff out of it?