DC Could Learn Lessons From Marvel's Movie Strategy

[Heretic]

Please amend that to SUPERHERO comic book films. A History of Violence, Road to Perdition, American Splendor, and Ghost World would be surprised to learn that they weren't up for any "significant" Oscars. Heck, Persepolis too.

For the most part those movies, as well as Crumb, were screwed because of their comic book roots. If a superhero film actually wins some major awards then that will enable the indie comics movies to have a better shot at winning the awards they deserve.

 

[jmc]

History of Violence was Oscar nominated for Supporting Actor and Adapted Screenplay.

 

[Heretic]

History of Violence was Oscar nominated for Supporting Actor and Adapted Screenplay.

Yep, and didnt win. Im not saying that it should have won...but it didnt stand a chance because it was a comic first. To me, the biggest slam is American Splendor not winning best actor, and Crumb not winning movie of the year (it won best documentary, but it was also the best overall movie). Road To Perdition didnt seem to be a massive critical favorite, but the others were and none really won like they should have.

 

[The Major]

Hey, Iron-Man is a lot more popular than you think.

He's nowhere near as well known to the public as Batman.

Before the movie all they had was a cartoon which lasted two seasons and an animated movie released that was direct to dvd within months of the live action film.

In fact he is very similar to Batman in that he is a rich guy playing superhero. That is a very appealing concept to both men and women.

Then why did The Shadow fail?

There were a lot of cool things in that film (expecially for techno-geeks) and you could actually bring your kids to see it. I think those were deciding factors to it's success.

I agree those did have an affect on IM's success but the film had much, much less to work with then Dark Knight.

I know you are trying to soften this by saying this is Batman, but even still, comic book films do not get Oscar considerations outside of maybe, "Best Score" or Best Cinematography. If the acolades now become true in the future (Heath Ledger getting "Best Supporting Actor" or "The Dark Knight" even getting nominated for "Best Picture") it would be a first. Thats saying a lot about what they are doing with their properties.

An Oscar nomination, while impressive, doesn't prove anything.

I doubt Ledger would have got even that nomination if he were alive. His death is another huge boost for Dark Knight's in the public, which was incredibly high already being the sequel to another movie which was well liked by everybody.

If WB manages to get this type of fanfare to a Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern or Green Arrow film then I'll be impressed.

 

[DACrowe]

Good news, hopefully it isn't talk. I imagine we will see Green Lanturn, Flash and Wonder Woman make it to cinemas and maybe even Justice League around the same time as Avengers 3 (or maybe just before it). Don't expect much more though. Albeit that may slate fans' hunger.

Will have to add that Nolan isn't being selfish. His Batman movies do not gel with superpowered beings. I understand him not wanting to see Bale play Batman in Justice League as it leaks over to his films and I think Bale would agree. Plus I don't see either doing more than three. In a few years if they make Justice League they can keep Nolan's continuity but a recast would be inevitable.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree that taking the Nolan Batman into the JL world would be a mistake. The world Nolan established is grounded in a reality that JL doesn't follow.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I think the Nolan Batman will work just find in JL. Its relatively the same Batman in the comics and cartoons and he works in JLA. This realism has gone too far

 

[The Major]

I think the Nolan Batman will work just find in JL. Its relatively the same Batman in the comics and cartoons and he works in JLA. This realism has gone too far

Actually, he isn't.

In JLA and other team books he's in, like Outsiders, he is what fandom call "Batgod".

He has basically a Sci-Fi Closet with devices like Boom Tubes and other tech which he never uses in his own titles since most villains are street level there. He doesn't use this sci-fi tech on big threats like Ra's or Joker in his own titles, either. He regularly does stuff like sneak up on Superman and able to ambush White Martains with little warning.

Batman's much smarter as an inventor there, too. In Morrison's JLA he built his own teleporter from scratch.

 

[jmc]

Yep, and didnt win. Im not saying that it should have won...but it didnt stand a chance because it was a comic first. To me, the biggest slam is American Splendor not winning best actor, and Crumb not winning movie of the year (it won best documentary, but it was also the best overall movie). Road To Perdition didnt seem to be a massive critical favorite, but the others were and none really won like they should have.

Really? maybe it didn't win because the film and actor who beat it were superior, Brokeback Mountain and Clooney for Syrianna.

 

[Heretic]

Really? maybe it didn't win because the film and actor who beat it were superior, Brokeback Mountain and Clooney for Syrianna.

In the part you bolded, I very clearly say that it shouldnt have won anyway, but didnt stand a chance regardless.

As Ive said before, I really have the biggest issues with American Splendor and Crumb, two movies that I think deserved better, and were superior to A History Of violence and the rest anyway. I dont even know what won those years, nor do i care. Im partial to comic book movies, and I remember at the time feeling that we got robbed.

 

[jmc]

In the part you bolded, I very clearly say that it shouldnt have won anyway, but didnt stand a chance regardless.

As Ive said before, I really have the biggest issues with American Splendor and Crumb, two movies that I think deserved better, and were superior to A History Of violence and the rest anyway. I dont even know what won those years, nor do i care. Im partial to comic book movies, and I remember at the time feeling that we got robbed.

American Splendor lost to Return of The King, a genre of film that was once considered inferior to the Academy, like comic adaptations. It didn't have a chance because it was a comic adaptation, no film had a chance that year, LOTR swept aside everything.

 

[dnno1]

He's nowhere near as well known to the public as Batman.

Before the movie all they had was a cartoon which lasted two seasons and an animated movie released that was direct to dvd within months of the live action film.

Over the past 42 years, Iron Man has been in cartoons and video games. He had his own segment in the 1966 "Marvel Superheroes" cartoon, made apperances in the 1981 "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", had his own segment in the 1994 "Marvel Action Hour" and many others. Iron Man is an icon and is known well enough to get a movie and to be mis-associated with the Black Sabbath song of the same name. He may not be as old as Batman, but he certainly is iconic enough to get his own film and make a good showing at the box office.

Then why did The Shadow fail?

My take on that was that the film was a period piece and the character was from the late 1930's. He never had a conncection with the perponderance of the audience (aged 12-24) since he was before their time. Even though he was an opulent playboy, the charcter was not the Icon that a Batman, or an Iron-Man is today (or even in 1994). Any way that was 1994, and it seem like nowadays there are a number of folks who are more receptive to the character than 14 years ago.

I agree those did have an affect on IM's success but the film had much, much less to work with then Dark Knight.

It is quite obvious now that he had enough to work with, which is all that matters.

An Oscar nomination, while impressive, doesn't prove anything.

You will have to explain that to all those Oscar winners who as a result have increased their stock and asking prices for film roles.

I doubt Ledger would have got even that nomination if he were alive. His death is another huge boost for Dark Knight's in the public, which was incredibly high already being the sequel to another movie which was well liked by everybody.

He may have had he been alive. Remember, Ledger had previously been nominated for "Best Actor" for his role in "Brokeback Mountain", so he was Oscar material to begin with. I don't know if the public apeal to the Dark Knight was all that high since the death of Ledger did upset many on the Internet message boards, who thought that the project was in jepordy.

If WB manages to get this type of fanfare to a Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern or Green Arrow film then I'll be impressed.

That is left to be seen. Let's hope so.

 

[Heretic]

American Splendor lost to Return of The King, a genre of film that was once considered inferior to the Academy, like comic adaptations. It didn't have a chance because it was a comic adaptation, no film had a chance that year, LOTR swept aside everything.

Oh yeah...ROTK swept...and didnt even remotely deserve it.

I actually think that American Splendors most deserving award would have been best male lead

 

[cerealkiller182]

Actually, he isn't.

In JLA and other team books he's in, like Outsiders, he is what fandom call "Batgod".

He has basically a Sci-Fi Closet with devices like Boom Tubes and other tech which he never uses in his own titles since most villains are street level there. He doesn't use this sci-fi tech on big threats like Ra's or Joker in his own titles, either. He regularly does stuff like sneak up on Superman and able to ambush White Martains with little warning.

Batman's much smarter as an inventor there, too. In Morrison's JLA he built his own teleporter from scratch.

But Batmans the same. Thats all environmental. Hes still reasonable, skeptic, grounded as a character. The tehcnology and surroundings is what is "unrealistic"

Nolans Batman is the same way. Relies on gadets, intelligence, and martial arts training. You can still put him in the world of JLA and have him be the same character and still have Nolans non sci fi Gotham. If anything, it only strengthens this part of Batman by challenging his ideals.

 

[dnno1]

Here's a good lesson that the WB could learn form Marvel:

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_ezine&task=read&page=2&category=18&article=5283

Never make bad movies and never hire Lexi Alexander.

 

[dnno1]

Please amend that to SUPERHERO comic book films. A History of Violence, Road to Perdition, American Splendor, and Ghost World would be surprised to learn that they weren't up for any "significant" Oscars. Heck, Persepolis too.

You are right. I meant superhero (not capitalized and not necessarily comic book) films. It was supposedly implied.

 

[Raiden]

Here's a good lesson that the WB could learn form Marvel:

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_ezine&task=read&page=2&category=18&article=5283

Never make bad movies and never hire Lexi Alexander.

I thought DC already learned from themselves not to make bad movies (Batman & Robin, Steel, Catwoman, etc), but no movie studio in the world is immune to this problem. I just hope Marvel will also learn never to make movies like GR and DD; those movies can be blamed on Sony and Fox, but if they happen to movies made by Marvel Studio then they won't have a scapegoat.

 

[dnno1]

Hey, Iron-Man is a lot more popular than you think. In fact he is very similar to Batman in that he is a rich guy playing superhero. That is a very appealing concept to both men and women. There were a lot of cool things in that film (expecially for techno-geeks) and you could actually bring your kids to see it. I think those were deciding factors to it's success.

I know you are trying to soften this by saying this is Batman, but even still, comic book films do not get Oscar considerations outside of maybe, "Best Score" or Best Cinematography. If the acolades now become true in the future (Heath Ledger getting "Best Supporting Actor" or "The Dark Knight" even getting nominated for "Best Picture") it would be a first. Thats saying a lot about what they are doing with their properties.

Please amend that to SUPERHERO comic book films. A History of Violence, Road to Perdition, American Splendor, and Ghost World would be surprised to learn that they weren't up for any "significant" Oscars. Heck, Persepolis too.

Well, the Oscar announcements are in and as it turns out "The Dark Knight" has nominations for Best Supporting Actor (Heath Ledger, post humus), Achievement in Art Direction, Achievement in Cinematography, Achievement in Editing, Achievement in Make-Up, Achievement in Sound Editing, Achievement in Sound Mixing, and Achievement in Visual Effects. "Iron Man", has nominations for just Achievement in sound Editing and Achievement in Visual Effects. "The Incredible Hulk" and "Punisher War Zone" received no nominations. That would be 8 to 2 in WB's favor and would indicate to me that they can make better films.

Lol well my friend I think the WB has learnt from Marvel.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3ia50cdcb373435f1b7a1569d16f760546
WB mulls redraw of DC Comics plan
Big shake-up could be in the works

By Borys Kit
July 11, 2008, 12:00 AM ET


A big shake-up could be in the works at Warner Bros. for its DC Comics film properties.

In the course of the past couple of weeks, Warner Bros. Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov and Warner Bros. Pictures president Kevin McCormick have been meeting with DC Comics executives as well some of DC's top talents, like Jim Lee, to discuss a new direction for film adaptations.

Up until now, the comic properties had been undergoing a hodge-podge development process. With the recent success of Marvel Studios' "Iron Man" and "The Incredible Hulk" and that company's plan to develop its many characters linked strategically together, Warners has been forced to take a close second look at its sister company.

With "The Dark Knight" near its release date, a new agenda is being set, one that not only sees the DC characters emerge with a higher priority but also one that would see them developed with an overarching goal in mind.

Although plans are in motion, any firm deals or announcements are weeks away.

Warners declined comment on the discussions, only stating: "While we are not going to go into the specifics of the meetings, we're constantly looking at how best to exploit the DC Comics characters and properties. DC is an incredibly valuable asset to Warner Bros. and plays an important role across the entire studio by providing development and franchise opportunities for all media, including films, television, home entertainment, animation, consumer products, video games and digital platforms."

DC & Marvel could learn a thing or two from New Line Cinema's Journey to the Center of the Earth.

As it turns out it looks like the work with Jim Lee and DC was for their MMOG, DC Universe Online that is expected to be released this year. Marvel tried their hand at that and wound up canceling their Marvel Universe Online game early last year. WB does not need to learn anything form Marvel. It's the other way around.

 

[biolumen]

Nothing wrong with learning from other people's mistakes, so long as those lessons are in fact learned and not overlooked or dismissed.

 

[dnno1]

Nothing wrong with learning from other people's mistakes, so long as those lessons are in fact learned and not overlooked or dismissed.

The thing is, biolumen, the original post (OP) stated this:

Source

I agree with this article, but the title should be "WB Could Learn Lessons From Marvel's Movie Strategy". DC really needs their own studio and more creative control instead of WB execs messing things up.

The truth of the matter is that the status quo strategy that both DC and the WB have right now works well and in some cases better than Marvels. DC does not need to have their own studio since the WB already has one (and a very experienced outfit at that) and they are making and have made Superhero films that have been hits as well as Academy award nominees (outperforming that of Marvel). This whole premise that DC/WB needs to take a lesson from Marvel is just a farce.

 

[biolumen]

I agree with you for the most part. My statement was actually an attempt to 'turn the table' on the OP's argument in that WB can learn by merely sitting back and watching what works and what doesn't work for Marvel, then adjusting their plan accordingly. Despite Iron Man's success, Marvel has yet to prove themselves. Their 'plan' is still just a plan at this point, the success and long time viability of which are as of yet unproven.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea hopefully marvel's solo slates will do well and hopefully we do get more dc soon. Yea hopefully mistakes wont be made again like dc's bad films like batman and robin, steel, catwoman, etc...

 

[The Major]

The truth of the matter is that the status quo stategy that both DC and the WB have right now works well and in some cases better than Marvels.

The status quo WB strategy has only had two successful movie franchises and their best branch in adaptions is animation, though it still has room for improvement. The live action tv branch has a terrible track record with DCU adaptions. Besides Batman and Superman they have a very poor record with DCU adaptions that have long term multimedia planning.

DC does not need to have their own studio since the WB already has one (and a very experienced outfit at that) and they are making and have made Superhero films that have been hits

Many are misses. Batman and Superman has had the best treatment so far. Every other DCU adaption which aren't them, which happens very rarely with such a rich resource like DC, fail due to incompetence and lack of respect. WB has yet to fully repair that with their DCU adaptions despite their enormous resources. They should use that experience more wisely in the future because they haven't for to many DCU adaptions. Nolan and Donner are still exceptions to the rule.

as well as Academy award nominees (outperforming that of Marvel).

Having Academy award winners is meaningless if the adaptions are bad.

This whole premice that DC/WB needs to take a lesson from Marvel is just a farce.

I disagree.

 

[Red Mask]

Until Warner Bros (the owner of DC Comics) actually makes new films, besides Batman and Superman, there is little they've achieved in putting more DC heroes in the theaters. Animated films are still the best medium for that.

But hey - they're revising the Tomb Raider franchise. Warner Bros. can afford to use Non-DC characters to earn their dough.

 

[The Major]

Until Warner Bros (the owner of DC Comics) actually makes new films, besides Batman and Superman, there is little they've achieved in putting more DC heroes in the theaters.

Agreed.

Animated films are still the best medium for that.

It is but the live action divisions should be doing much more then they are. They can't use technology as an excuse anymore.

But hey - they're revising the Tomb Raider franchise. Warner Bros. can afford to use Non-DC characters to earn their dough.

They can afford to but it shouldn't still be their only option. The fear and contempt of the DCU from WB needs to end. They're just cutting themselves off from a huge resource.