DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 6

[hippie_hunter]

She was not a 'sex slave' she was a consenting adult woman in a healthy relationship with two people she loved

They probably were into bdsm i would imagine but thats just a guess. If they were that's perfectly normal and healthy too I would imagine Marston was probably the sub though.

Though again that's just a guess.

Marston's relationship with his wife and Byrne isn't the norm of how polyamorous relationships end up. Polygamy in the United States is typically incredibly sexist where women are expected to be submissive to their husbands, abusive when the wife doesn't do what her husband wants to do, pedophiliac where in a lot of instances the men marry girls who are not only much younger than them but also under the legal age of consent, etc.

 

[Anubis]

But what does that have to do with Marston? Clearly, they had a different type of relationship. Probably due to that lack of religious doctrine mucking things up.

(That's right, now I've brought religion into it. Chew on that D-Bags. )

 

[Saint]

Marston's relationship with his wife and Byrne isn't the norm of how polyamorous relationships end up. Polygamy in the United States is typically incredibly sexist where women are expected to be submissive to their husbands, abusive when the wife doesn't do what her husband wants to do, pedophiliac where in a lot of instances the men marry girls who are not only much younger than them but also under the legal age of consent, etc.

That's not a problem with polygamy, that's a problem with specific people and specific behaviours. I'm mean, everything looks bad if you characterize it by the actions of people who abuse it. It's not really meaningful.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That's not a problem with polygamy, that's a problem with specific people and specific behaviours. I'm mean, everything looks bad if you characterize it by the actions of people who abuse it. It's not really meaningful.

Very true, but things like that are what tainted polygamy in the United States. It will never be accepted due to the sexism, the submission, the abuse, the child molestation, the bizarre religious connotations involved, and the simple fact that most people see polyamourism to be weird.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But what does that have to do with Marston? Clearly, they had a different type of relationship. Probably due to that lack of religious doctrine mucking things up.

(That's right, now I've brought religion into it. Chew on that D-Bags. )

Well Marston was an extreme feminist, so that probably helped things out. Most polygamous marriages in the United States however, the men aren't at all like Marston.

 

[Anubis]

What do you mean most? How do you know?

Seeing as it's illegal, I'm pretty sure MOST would keep that s**t a secret.

 

[hippie_hunter]

What do you mean most? How do you know?

Seeing as it's illegal, I'm pretty sure MOST would keep that s**t a secret.

There are actually thousands who are open about their polygamy despite being illegal. Take Sister Wives for example, a TV show dedicated to a man in the United States and his four wives and bajillion children. There are also a couple of communities in the Western United States that are polygamist communities which have been raided due to claims of child molestation and abuse. Inbreeding is also said to be quite common in these communities.

 

[Anubis]

Everybodies well aware of those *****e bags, but whose to say that there aren't those who simply do it the Marston way?

Or just those *****e bags who have multiple families in other cities that don't know anything about each other.

Just saying, it's like accusing an entire religion of being crazy pedophiles based on the actions of a few nut jobs.

 

[Motown Marvel]

She was not a 'sex slave' she was a consenting adult woman in a healthy relationship with two people she loved

They probably were into bdsm i would imagine but thats just a guess. If they were that's perfectly normal and healthy too I would imagine Marston was probably the sub though.

Though again that's just a guess.

marston's wife said bondage was never a part of their sex life. and the bondage included in the wonder woman comics wasnt rooted in anything sexual.

Marston's relationship with his wife and Byrne isn't the norm of how polyamorous relationships end up. Polygamy in the United States is typically incredibly sexist where women are expected to be submissive to their husbands, abusive when the wife doesn't do what her husband wants to do, pedophiliac where in a lot of instances the men marry girls who are not only much younger than them but also under the legal age of consent, etc.

knowing a few people in polyamorous relationships, they're much closer to what marston had than the atrocity you just described, which i would wager is rather rare in most polyamorous relationships.

 

[Anubis]

Polyamorous peoples, as a whole, tend to be more hippie, less pedophilic religious nut.

That's why there's a difference between Polygamy, and polyamory.

Watch real sex for once in your life.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well not exactly a lover. A submissive sex slave would be a bit closer. Which of course was incorporated into WW's weakness, if a man could take her he could claim her and such.

What? Where in the world did you get any of that? That's not even how the original Wonder Woman's weakness really worked, either. She was weakened by having her bracelets bound, but no man could really 'claim' her by doing so, because she fought and escaped in that state as well. Actually, what you're saying, is kind of the exact opposite of what was happening in those stories.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep

Some Polygamous/Polyamorous relationships are abusive its true. But plenty of relationships between just two people are abusive as well. There's nothing inherently wrong with relationships between three or more people its only wrong if one or more of the people in the relationship is abusive

If everyone's happy and loving then its perfectly healthy and normal

And Marston's relationships with both the women in his life were clearly loving and consensual. So theres nothing wrong with it

I support any relationship between consenting adults whether they want three partners or three hundred. As long as their enjoying themselves more power to them

Getting back on topic Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E was fab this month with an absolutely incredible cliffhanger ending and more brilliant moments from Frankenstein. I'm falling in love with this character

Ressurection Man was pretty darn great too. Really liking that title so far

Suicide Squad though was just more meh. Harley Quinn was fun at least but honestly I think I'm done with this title. It just hasn't been at all interestng to me

 

[moraldeficiency]

She was not a 'sex slave' she was a consenting adult woman in a healthy relationship with two people she loved

They probably were into bdsm i would imagine but thats just a guess. If they were that's perfectly normal and healthy too I would imagine Marston was probably the sub though.

Though again that's just a guess.

Hey hey hey, you misunderstand. She can be a consenting adult woman in a healthy relationsip with two people she loved as a sex slave. If that's you're thing and you're for it, it's not a bad thing. It's a choice and she was apparently very happy with it. Nothing wrong with the issue, but she was.

From what I understand it wasn't bdsm beyond some basic bondage it was more a sub/dom thing, which again if everyone's into it is nothing wrong and can be very hot.

You almost come off as kinda judgy about this which is a touch surprising. She makes a choice, she gets to live her life, but call it as it is. Personally I think that is probably one of the better ways to do a three way with better defined rules and a power structure in place which helps avoid conflicts.

 

[moraldeficiency]

What? Where in the world did you get any of that? That's not even how the original Wonder Woman's weakness really worked, either. She was weakened by having her bracelets bound, but no man could really 'claim' her by doing so, because she fought and escaped in that state as well. Actually, what you're saying, is kind of the exact opposite of what was happening in those stories.

Yes, having your hands bound made you submit to the man or woman that was capable of binding you. She would have to do as you said if you were able to dominate her in that way. It's pretty obvious.

She would try to escape and if she broke free she would be free, which only meant you didn't bind her well enough.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yes, having your hands bound made you submit to the man or woman that was capable of binding you. She would have to do as you said if you were able to dominate her in that way. It's pretty obvious.

She would try to escape and if she broke free she would be free, which only meant you didn't bind her well enough.

Um, no, it didn't make her submit, just made her lose her power. There may have been occasions where she was also mind-controlled or something, but the fact that she willingly fought against that to escape means she wasn't submitting. So, no, you are incorrect in this. You seem to be mixing this up with the lasso's powers, which Wonder Woman often used to make people do as she wanted (it may have been used against her at some point, too, I don't remember).

And also, where are you getting that Marston and his wife's mistress was submissive, exactly? I've read about this subject to some degree, and I don't believe they were that open with who was what in their triangle.

 

[Mystirious]

Hey hey hey, you misunderstand. She can be a consenting adult woman in a healthy relationsip with two people she loved as a sex slave. If that's you're thing and you're for it, it's not a bad thing. It's a choice and she was apparently very happy with it. Nothing wrong with the issue, but she was.

From what I understand it wasn't bdsm beyond some basic bondage it was more a sub/dom thing, which again if everyone's into it is nothing wrong and can be very hot.

You almost come off as kinda judgy about this which is a touch surprising. She makes a choice, she gets to live her life, but call it as it is. Personally I think that is probably one of the better ways to do a three way with better defined rules and a power structure in place which helps avoid conflicts.

Apologies i misunderstood what you meant. When you used the term i thought that you meant she was forced into the relationship with Marston and his wife. I didnt realise you were just talking about role play

Of course there's nothing wrong with being a consensual submissive. I'm the last person who would judge someone for being kinky. I'm very into the bdsm scene myself and am the 'sub' to my girlfriends 'domme' in our relationship

Though according to Motown Marston wasn't into that. Which is a little surprising but if his wife says he wasn't I'm inclined to believe her

But your absolutely right there's nothing wrong with sub/dom relationships or bdsm at all. It's completely healthy and normal And hawt

Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant in your earlier post.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Apologies i misunderstood what you meant. When you used the term i thought that you meant she was forced into the relationship with Marston and his wife. I didnt realise you were just talking about role play

Of course there's nothing wrong with being a consensual submissive. I'm the last person who would judge someone for being kinky. I'm very into the bdsm scene myself and am the 'sub' to my girlfriends 'domme' in our relationship

Though according to Motown Marston wasn't into that. Which is a little surprising but if his wife says he wasn't I'm inclined to believe her

But your absolutely right there's nothing wrong with sub/dom relationships or bdsm at all. It's completely healthy and normal And hawt

Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant in your earlier post.

Np, it's an easy thing to get twisted. I like a bit of play myself (from the opposing spectrum of yourself), but most people because of some strange prudish thing take a term like submissive and instantly go negative or assume there's something about force akin to rape involved when really it's about the farthest thing from it.


So to clarify, I don't see anything wrong with Marston's relationship, actually I believe it's about the only way to make a long term three way work without emotions being ground into the dirt. But it was clearly not a "normal" three way and WW was grounded in several of his belief's and kinks to one extent or another.

 

[Lord]

Is it just me or this DC reboot thread turned into a Menage a Trois discussion?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ménage à Trois > The New 52

 

[moraldeficiency]

Um, no, it didn't make her submit, just made her lose her power. There may have been occasions where she was also mind-controlled or something, but the fact that she willingly fought against that to escape means she wasn't submitting. So, no, you are incorrect in this. You seem to be mixing this up with the lasso's powers, which Wonder Woman often used to make people do as she wanted (it may have been used against her at some point, too, I don't remember).

And also, where are you getting that Marston and his wife's mistress was submissive, exactly? I've read about this subject to some degree, and I don't believe they were that open with who was what in their triangle.

Her weaknesses have be tweeked from time to time, but it used to be that if she was bound until she got free she would have to submit.

http://www.williammoultonmarston.com/

A few points about his life, and yes I'm drawing conclusions based on some things, but as someone that plays a bit in this world I think I have a good idea of what was most likely going on. A few quotes about women and submission:

Marston was also a writer of essays in popular psychology.

Marston posited that there is a male notion of freedom that is inherently anarchic and violent, and an opposing female notion based on "Love Allure" that leads to an ideal state of submission to loving authority.

Marston used a pen name that combined his middle name with that of Gaines to create Charles Moulton. Marston intended his character, which he called "Suprema", to be "tender, submissive, peaceloving as good women are," combining "all the strength of a Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman."

These elements were softened by later writers of the series. Though Marston had described female nature as submissive, in his other writings and interviews he referred to submission to women as a noble and potentially world-saving practice, leading ideally to the establishment of a matriarchy, and did not shy away from the sexual implications of this:

"The only hope for peace is to teach people who are full of pep and unbound force to enjoy being bound ... Only when the control of self by others is more pleasant than the unbound assertion of self in human relationships can we hope for a stable, peaceful human society... Giving to others, being controlled by them, submitting to other people cannot possibly be enjoyable without a strong erotic element."


And one about male submission:

About male readers, he later wrote: "Give them an alluring woman stronger than themselves to submit to, and they'll be proud to become her willing slaves!" (These themes were among many that motivated Dr. Frederic Wertham's hostile criticism in Seduction of the Innocent, the quality of whose own core research has itself subsequently been questioned.)

 

[Mystirious]

Well getting back on topic did anyone read Demon Knights

Vandal Savage killed a dragon by beating it with another dragon

It was epic

 

[Tron Bonne]

Her weaknesses have be tweeked from time to time, but it used to be that if she was bound until she got free she would have to submit.

Um, do you have any specific examples? I've read a good deal of those stories, and I don't recall a time when bounding the bracelets made her have to submit to the wishes of whoever chained them. It seems it doesn't work very well since Wonder Woman always had the ability to escape unless under some kind of mind altercation unrelated to the bounding.

To be fair, it's been awhile since I've read a lot of the older material. I used to have it all downloaded, but I got rid of that in hoping to collect the Archieve re-releases. I'm coming up with a blank for this, though.

http://www.williammoultonmarston.com/

A few points about his life, and yes I'm drawing conclusions based on some things, but as someone that plays a bit in this world I think I have a good idea of what was most likely going on. A few quotes about women and submission:

Marston was also a writer of essays in popular psychology.

Marston posited that there is a male notion of freedom that is inherently anarchic and violent, and an opposing female notion based on "Love Allure" that leads to an ideal state of submission to loving authority.

Marston used a pen name that combined his middle name with that of Gaines to create Charles Moulton. Marston intended his character, which he called "Suprema", to be "tender, submissive, peaceloving as good women are," combining "all the strength of a Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman."

These elements were softened by later writers of the series. Though Marston had described female nature as submissive, in his other writings and interviews he referred to submission to women as a noble and potentially world-saving practice, leading ideally to the establishment of a matriarchy, and did not shy away from the sexual implications of this:

"The only hope for peace is to teach people who are full of pep and unbound force to enjoy being bound ... Only when the control of self by others is more pleasant than the unbound assertion of self in human relationships can we hope for a stable, peaceful human society... Giving to others, being controlled by them, submitting to other people cannot possibly be enjoyable without a strong erotic element."


And one about male submission:

About male readers, he later wrote: "Give them an alluring woman stronger than themselves to submit to, and they'll be proud to become her willing slaves!" (These themes were among many that motivated Dr. Frederic Wertham's hostile criticism in Seduction of the Innocent, the quality of whose own core research has itself subsequently been questioned.)

I'm aware of all of this, but you're still going to have to clarify why exactly you're under that impression, because I'm not totally unfamiliar with some BDSMing in the 'real world', but I don't really see how you're making the bridge of Olive being the 'sex slave' of the triangle with this.

 

[Motown Marvel]

y'alls need to read THIS BOOK.

 

[CConn]

I never thought people cared about WMM's sex life so much.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Batman and Robin gets my pick for best book of the week, with Batwoman being a pretty close second. Superboy was good, too.