DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 8

[CConn]

Pretty much. Plus he says he doesn't read any current comics, so how does he know how bad they are? There are plenty of other comics out there besides marvel & dc.

Um, because he reads posts on here?

It's pretty easy to get a gauge on the current state of comics from just reading and observing the general consensus.

 

[Anubis]

I haven't really read comics in 3 years and I know pretty much everything going on.

 

[RockSP]

Um, because he reads posts on here?

It's pretty easy to get a gauge on the current state of comics from just reading and observing the general consensus.

Well, we'll just have to disagree. Again, I'm not talking just dc & marvel. No way he (or anyone on here) knows about every comic out.

 

[CConn]

Well, we'll just have to disagree. Again, I'm not talking just dc & marvel. No way he (or anyone on here) knows about every comic out.

So...you're saying no one should be able to make any statements on the state of comics until they've read every comic currently being published?

I'm sorry, but you really aren't comprehending his point. Half the time, he's talking about specific characters...so reading The Sixth Gun or Fatale really doesn't have anything to do with Hal Jordan or Barry Allen.

Furthermore, he often touches upon storytelling methods that have been universally used in comics for the past 20 years. I'm sorry, but they really don't write comics like they used to. The plotting is different, the layouts are different, the dialogue and exposition is different, etc. And that IS present in all modern comics. Even the rare series that do try to minic classic comics like OMAC still can't quite recapture the same method or storytelling or tone.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I read up until issue 4 and none of it really impressed me.

I dunno, maybe I'll check it out again, but for me, I'd rather buy a back issue of some really good series that I never got into like Fables or Swamp Thing or whatever, then repeatedly testing the waters with some of these titles.

It was one of those stories where it needed the slow build for the payoff. I think it was around issue 5 where I thought the quality picked up (though it was more of a stand alone story than a part of the main plot) but the main plot picked up in the issue or two after that. After having read it all in one sitting I felt it was a very good and fulfilling plot. checking out parts probably won't give that feeling.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

CCon, you should definitely check out Fables. One of the best things being published that's not one of the big 2.

 

[Cain]

I'm a massive fan of Dick Grayson. Matter of fact he's my third all time favorite comic book character behind Superman and his mentor. Partly because he embodies the best of both Supes and Bats while still maintaining his own unique identity.

Yet I can't stand that book; I had to drop it with #4 too. I did read the other issues cause I know readers of the title and it wasn't impressive enough for me to pick it back up. Just establishing that Hayley's Circus had ties to this court of owls and stuff.

Higgins doesn't really understand Grayson's voice and many times writes him like an incompetent tool. Dick's not a rookie he's a vet; yet he's written like a rookie many times in NW. It's character regression and annoying to read for that reason.

In retrospect I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Dick Grayson work was by Snyder on Gates of Gotham and not Higgins.You'd be really surprised to know that this guy was once Batman if you just went by Higgins' book. I think Higgins needs to talk to his buddy Snyder and ask for some pointers on writing an effective Dick Grayson characterization.

I'll look at it one day again when it gets a new writer but it's already proving to be hard to top what happened with Dick during the past 3 yrs in terms of character progression.

 

[Cain]

CCon, you should definitely check out Fables. One of the best things being published that's not one of the big 2.

But it is published by one of the big 2 lol

It's a great series though for sure. I've been behind by a couple of arcs now since I stopped buying the floppies over a year ago, and I still haven't looked at the latest ongoing that was added to the franchise yet.

 

[RockSP]

So...you're saying no one should be able to make any statements on the state of comics until they've read every comic currently being published?

 

[SpideyInATree]

CCon, you should definitely check out Fables. One of the best things being published that's not one of the big 2.

Fables is really solid but I wouldn't go that far. It's a really great book that kind of lost it's way after that Great Fables Crossover a few years ago but ever since # 100 it's really gotten back on track.

I'd say the best books being published right now are Chew, Sixth Gun, American Vampire and Sweet Tooth.

 

[CConn]

Then please, correct me.

 

[CConn]

And I have read some Fables...I'm just trying to really dig into it now. I'm on issue #20 now.

I've read all of Sweet Tooth, all of American Vampire, I'm quickly working my way through The Sixth Gun. Chew...I've never been able to get into for some reason. I've tried getting into it a few times, and something just keeps me disengaged from the characters.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

But it is published by one of the big 2 lol

It's a great series though for sure. I've been behind by a couple of arcs now since I stopped buying the floppies over a year ago, and I still haven't looked at the latest ongoing that was added to the franchise yet.

yeah, but it's one of their smaller imprints. I don't really consider Vertigo DC. I feel like it's just owned by DC, and happens to cross over into DCU proper when it will make them more money.

I've been picking up the oversized hardbacks as they come out. I friggin LOVE those editions.

 

[Cain]

yeah, but it's one of their smaller imprints. I don't really consider Vertigo DC. I feel like it's just owned by DC, and happens to cross over into DCU proper when it will make them more money.

I've been picking up the oversized hardbacks as they come out. I friggin LOVE those editions.

Yes so it's still published by them. You may not consider Vertigo to be the same as DC in terms of comic narratives because it's IP's are not dependent on DC continuity, I don't either but DC is Vertigo's publisher.

In being owned by DC it's dependent on DC because that's their publisher. Without DC publishing American Vampire, Sweet Tooth etc. every month we don't get to read them. When you mention the word published and say that one of the big 2 don't publish Vertigo's books it is inaccurate for that reason alone.

Real independent companies that self publish include IDW, Dynamite and Image. Icon and Vertigo don't fall in that category because even though they're the home of creator owned properties like those other companies they aren't their own independent publishers. They get published by Marvel and DC respectively. It's a very technical thing.

 

[Anubis]

I've had this conversation.....very recently.....sonofab***h wouldn't listen to reason either.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I understand that DC publishes them. But they're not part of the shared DC universe, and tend to sell far less than the mainstream DC books. It's sadly often overlooked by fans of the superhero genre (my brother won't read any comic books unless it's a mainstream superhero).

I guess what I meant is that it doesn't take place in either of the big 2's universes.

edit: do the Vertigo books have the DC logo on them? I can't remember.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Oh definitely. But it's like having a clean politican in a corrupt government.

As much as I love movies, and embrace the cinematic venture, I really would love to see a comic book writer ditch decompression, stop trying to make their comics look like movies, and write a comic book as a comic book. Go back to the old style of self contained issues so compressed that they have 3-4 chapters, without the stilted dialogue and pointless exposition that classic comics have.

And comics have gotten pointlessly violent and "dark". It's one thing when it's the Punisher or something, but I definitely see the merit in just telling some light, oddball sci-fi stories with Superman or GL or Flash. I'd like to see writers stop trying to be light or dark and just write for what fits the story and character.

Oh, and events. Events can go to hell. Crossovers too.

The only thing about "one & done" books is that I think that concept is hard to grasp by today's writers. Not sure if you read them, but when Jason Aaron's PunisherMAX run was delayed, Marvel published 5 or 6 one-shots by different writers and it amazed me at how poorly paced each one was. They were over before they really went anywhere.

The same goes for Dark Horse's Creepy revival. A bunch of short stories by acclaimed writers. And all fell really short, especially when compared to the old Creepy story that they'd reprint each issue. The pacing was just really off.

Maybe these are the very few of this kind of example. On the other hand, Darwyn Cooke's Spirit run had alot of one & done issues. So maybe I'm wrong. Then again, Darwyn Cooke ain't "most other writers".

I agree with everything else you said though,

 

[Cain]

I understand that DC publishes them. But they're not part of the shared DC universe, and tend to sell far less than the mainstream DC books.

It's always been that way for the most part though (exceptions being few Vertigo books that have crossed over into the DCU). Everybody knows that Vertigo is published by DC. It's not some industry secret. The reason it's a pet peeve of mine & many other comic fans (Ie: Anubis on this board) when people act like they're an indie is because they really are not and it comes across as ignorance about the industry.

There are REAL independent comic book companies breaking ground out there and they never get the credit and love Vertigo gets as the "indie darling" by a small section of fans at all. Those companies could use that love and support more than Vertigo a lot of times.

I'll put it this way. One reason why Brian Wood left DC and we never got to see his planned New 52 Supergirl book is because he was pitching DMZ (a Vertigo comic meaning that it's creator owned) to different TV networks.

He came across a good deal and DC cock blocked it because well....they can since at the end of the day they're still part owner and the publisher of that IP. That upset him a lot and he didn't renew his contract and thus we had to see the end of his excellent Vertigo ongoings in turn because of it.

This is why you never see Ellis pitching a Transmetropolitan TV series or Azzarello an 100 Bullets one. Because even if they wanted to they would have to go through DC and a whole lot of paperwork first to make it happen.

It is not 100% ownership for the creators of ALL Vertigo properties like say people have over at IDW, Boom or Dynamite. Just some properties; so that is NOT really independent at all. It's just another imprint under a larger corporate umbrella.

It's sadly often overlooked by fans of the superhero genre

Yeah and this is something that has always happened and will continue. This is a major problem for the industry actually and one of the things that always stunted it's growth. It kills me when people tell me they read Manga and such cause American comics are nothing but superhero fare.

When in reality there are a crap load of American comic books out there that wipe the floor with Manga stuff in terms of non-superhero ideas and "mature" content. It's just that they ignore it because it has no familiar characters involved.

Unfortunately most people don't think the comic book medium is capable of doing more beyond superhero **** when it comes to American comics. But hey on the flipside there are always those of us who know better and at least help a lot of these series' run for a long time and achieve cult status.

The Vertigo books don't have the DC logo on them. All the Vertigo books have the main WB logo on them and say published by DC Comics in the credits though.

 

[Mystirious]

I haven't really read comics in 3 years and I know pretty much everything going on.

But you're an Egyptian god

You guys are omniscient

 

[Kurosawa]

This is the problem I have with you. You just assume that it's impossible to like current comics and the classics. I know plenty of people that enjoy rap that also enjoy the Beatles. More people would be more interested in checking out older stuff if the people who enjoyed it didn't spend all their time telling them that comics these days suck. Maybe reign in the cynicism a bit, make that thread about your old favorites and try to get some people to check it out. And if they don't, they don't. That doesn't make them any worse or better than you for sticking to what they've grown to enjoy.

Anyone who listens to the Beatles and then can stomach rap needs mental help.

Pretty much. Plus he says he doesn't read any current comics, so how does he know how bad they are? There are plenty of other comics out there besides marvel & dc.

I was buying current books until a month ago.

 

[Cain]

Anyone who listens to the Beatles and then can stomach rap needs mental help.

They might as well put me in an asylum then. Cause I love rap music (mind you not today's mainstream rap) and have listened to The Beatles. Why stop at The Beatles though since I'm not even much of a fan; I love rap music as much as I love the music of Hendrix, the Beach Boys, Pink Floyd, The New York Dolls, The Velvet Underground, Cream, Zeppelin and Sabbath. It's possible to be multifaceted to such an extent you know.

 

[Anubis]

Just cuz you're close minded doesn't make everybody else crazy. I can go from Johnny Cash to Childish Gambino without thought. Don't hate cuz we awesome.

 

[Mystirious]

I have to agree that its totally possible to like wildly different types of music

My top five singers/bands right now are Amanda Palmer, Lady Gaga, Alice Cooper, the Electric Light Orchestra and Emilie Autumn

All pretty wildly different in style and type of music

I do prefer modern comics from about the mid 80's onwards rather than silver age comic books overall but there are silver age comic books I enjoy as well

And I golden age Wonder Woman

Though if people prefer silver age stuff to modern that's fair enough too we're all different

 

[CConn]

The only thing about "one & done" books is that I think that concept is hard to grasp by today's writers. Not sure if you read them, but when Jason Aaron's PunisherMAX run was delayed, Marvel published 5 or 6 one-shots by different writers and it amazed me at how poorly paced each one was. They were over before they really went anywhere.

The same goes for Dark Horse's Creepy revival. A bunch of short stories by acclaimed writers. And all fell really short, especially when compared to the old Creepy story that they'd reprint each issue. The pacing was just really off.

Maybe these are the very few of this kind of example. On the other hand, Darwyn Cooke's Spirit run had alot of one & done issues. So maybe I'm wrong. Then again, Darwyn Cooke ain't "most other writers".

I agree with everything else you said though,

The reason why those one-shots were awful was because of decompression.

If you get rid of the decompression, you get rid of the issues that plague modern one-shots.

But you're right; today's comic book writers don't know how to properly pace one-shots. They don't know how to properly comics in general.

Even absolutely awesome series are often extremely decompressed compared to classic comics. That's the problem.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Not much info, but a little news:

I understand that DC Comics are planning an “event” next year, entitled The Trinity War. Presumably referring to Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. Whether that’s a battle between the three of them, or a battle between them and everyone else, I don’t know. I’m sure it’s much more than that, but it does sound like it’s setting the scene for a very different take on the characters within the New DCU.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04...edingCool+(Bleeding+Cool+Comic+News+&+Rumors)