Deadpool & Wolverine Deadpool & Wolverine Spoiler Thread

[Cap2024]

You think Lower Decks lacks reverence for Star Trek? Seriously?

Reverence in this context means taking the material seriously rather than playing up other angles for jokes.

There is a clear distinction between this:



And this:



One is played up for laughs, the other for an emotional poignancy.

The first akin to Deadpool Wolverine, the second akin to No Way Home. Both are love letters to what came before. One makes changes for humor. The other takes it utterly seriously. Love letters that come at the material from obviously different angles.

As said DW and NWH are both love letters, but if DW can in any way be compared to NWH it would be as the anti NWH due to coming at the material from an angle of absurdism rather than a poignant drama.

That is to say while both coming from a place of nostalgia and love: NWH is reverance, DW is intentionally irreverance (a word critics boasting about the film are also using to describe it).

As a screenwriter, I can easily come up with a dramatic and emotional version of the film - it just wouldn't feel like a Deadpool film from doing that. These films and comics thrive on irreverance.

 

[MarvelFan]

Had a blast with this.

Thankfully, besides X-23 who is in the last trailer, I was going to the movie completely spoiler-free and really surprised to see Evans' Human Torch, Jennifer Garner's Elektra, Wesley Snipes' Blade and Channing Tatum as Gambit
And blink and you miss it cameo was Kelly Hu as Lady Deathstrike as one of Cassandra Nova's lackey.

But the most surprising cameo was Henry Cavill as Wolverine variant...truly i didnt expect that he was in the movie!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Reverence in this context means taking the material seriously rather than playing up other angles for jokes.

There is a clear distinction between this:



And this:



One is played up for laughs, the other for an emotional poignancy.

But Star Trek is Star Trek. Famous for stuff like this:



Lower Decks is comedic, yes. So is a lot of Trek. So is Deadpool.

You seem to think you can't show respect to something with comedy, even if itself has comedic elements. That just isn't true. Especially when Lower Decks is canon and crossed over with Strange New Worlds seamlessly.

You could've used one of the scenes where Kirk is being a horn dog in the Kelvin timeline, but you didn't. Or when his hands blow up in 09 or when they're chased at the start Into Darkness.

An irrelevant take is something like the post-T2 Terminator sequels.

What matters is the source material. And the first two Deadpools, are in fact a part of the Fox X-Men. Arguably the most popular part. Where they take the piss out of that stuff, in canon. Whether it's McAvoy and his crew randomly show up, completely out of timelines or Wade going through time, fixing stuff from past flicks.

This is also why it doesn't matter if it's exactly "that Logan". Because everyone knows it's still Fox's Logan.

 

[MarvelFan]

And I knew that Ladypool is Blake Lively just hearing her talk and I was right when I read the full cast by the end credit

 

[Cap2024]

But Star Trek is Star Trek. Famous for stuff like this:



Lower Decks is comedic, yes. So is a lot of Trek. So is Deadpool.

You seem to think you can't show respect to something with comedy, even if itself has comedic elements. That just isn't true. Especially when Lower Decks is canon and crossed over with Strange New Worlds seamlessly.

You could've used one of the scenes where Kirk is being a horn dog in the Kelvin timeline, but you didn't. Or when his hands blow up in 09 or when they're chased at the start Into Darkness.

An irrelevant take is something like the post-T2 Terminator sequels.

What matters is the source material. And the first two Deadpools, are in fact a part of the Fox X-Men. Arguably the most popular part. Where they take the piss out of that stuff, in canon. Whether it's McAvoy and his crew randomly show up, completely out of timelines or Wade going through time, fixing stuff from past flicks.

This is also why it doesn't matter if it's exactly "that Logan". Because everyone knows it's still Fox's Logan.

I never said DW didn't show respect nor that it wasn't a love letter. I didn't state that either about Lower Decks.

I chose the examples I did less because of Trek and more to illustrate the tonal differences found in DW versus NWH in terms of approach. Worst Wolverine in existence and swearing Torch who is given an over-the-top death versus Peter grieving Gwen's death (akin to Spock grieving the loss of his world).

It also comes down to how the word is seen. Irreverance isn't necessarily a bad word depending on how it's used, which it seems is how you perceive it (disrespectful, a la post T2 sequels) ? Which is very understandbable.

Here you can see the same words I am using to describe both Lower Decks and DW in an interview with the Executive Producer of Lower Decks. It's a term often used for comedies in a way that is very different than how it's used in the real world outside of the entertainment industry (thus the, it seems, confusion).

You are using the standard definition. I am using how the word is often used in the business. They are two really different defintions.

I absolutely love this statement by the interviewer as it sums up why Lower Decks and DW work so well:

You can’t really be irreverent if you don’t have true reverence for your subject​

Reverence and irreverance (as the word is used in the business) both come from a place of love and respect if done right. NWH and DW, although both coming from a place of love and nostalgia, are intentionally on opposite ends of each other. It's two different approaches to tone and storytelling. Deadpool has always thrived on irreverance.

‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ EP Mike McMahan On That TNG Cameo and LGBTQ Characters in Season 2

After the Season 1 finale of "Star Trek: Lower Decks," exec producer Mike McMahan talks "Trek" history and what to expect in Season 2.

variety.com

 

[Terrorizer]

So, talking about cameos - somebody mentioned Bullseye (probably talking about the black guy close to Azazel, that we've seen in the trailers?), but I'm not really sure that's him.
Also, the Russian from Punisher 2004? I think it's safe to say that the guy in red/white striped t-shirt is him? The thing that bothered me a bit is they didn't get original actors for all those mutants/cameos in Cassandra's lair, especially having in mind they got big names like Evans, Garner, Snipes, Tatum back for their roles. Was it really hard to manage that? I could be wrong, but I don't think it would affect the budget of the film so much, most of those cameos are non-speaking (yeah, I know that Vinnie Jones told that he would never wear that body suit from Last Stand again)...But yeah, although this is nitpicking (and there are much more important things that I didn't like in this movie), it bothered me, not just because they are not played by original actors, but some of those mutants/cameos looked like some cheap cosplay versions of originals, especially Psylocke - who I'd never notice until she pulled out the purple whip. Also, Blob - I've noticed the big fat guy, but I'd never guess that's Blob until I saw the credits. I liked that they at least mentioned some unexpected names like Daredevil and Punisher though, especially liked the joke about the Punisher ("which one? there's like 5 of them!"). Those who I definitely didn't expect to see in this movie, which really blew me away, especially that they weren't just simple cameos - Johnny Storm and freaking Blade - Blade looked so good!
Regarding the movie itself, it's still early to give my final verdict, partially because all those cameos/references/fan service stuff were really overwhelming and bombarded my senses in a way, but for now it is somewhere around 7.5/10...First Deadpool is still the best in my book, it was something fresh and original for that time and was the most grounded of all DP movies. This one was better then DP2 but was definitely the silliest of the trilogy, which bothered me a bit, especially because there is Wolverine in it - yeah I know this is basically DP3 and it's his movie, but it was just way too silly for me to be emotionally invested in it and to "buy" the Wolverine's tragic story and his character development. It has mostly to do with 2 things - Ryan's/DP's humor and jokes became hit & miss for me, maybe it's because I'm older, but I found many of them to be stale, somehow distracting, even annoying at times - I just wished he would shut up for once and let me "rest" a bit (maybe they wanted us to feel what poor Wolverine felt for the whole movie). I just think they should have toned it down at least a bit, and be a little bit more serious so we could feel the emotional impact and stakes of the movie, at least because of Wolverine. Second thing - "lazy writing" like "oh, how should we end the movie and what should be the climax? I know, let's put the Deadpool Corps out of nowhere because the fans will surely love them, and then how they should beat them? I know, let's end the final fight by bringing Peterpool!". And one more thing regarding main villains - Cassandra/Paradox never felt like such a big threat and I didn't fully get their motivation, but maybe that's just me.
Anyway, just my 2 cents after the first viewing, my opinion about the movie will probably be a bit more clear after the second viewing, when the movie arrives on digital and there's no more hype about it like now.

By the way, I've noticed people on forum noting that you don't have to have existing knowledge about MCU/Foxverse to fully enjoy this movie. I beg to differ - out of all DP movies, I feel this one is really meant for hardcore fans and a casual movie goer wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much, because he/she wouldn't understand half of jokes and most of the cameos wouldn't mean anything to them. And although I enjoyed it, I would never recommend it to casual movie goer.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Wesley Snipes looked....small. Is he just so much leaner nowadays? Perfectly understandable considering his age and the fact that this was just a cameo but it was quite noticeable. Apparently he's only 5′ 9″ (1.75 m) which blows my mind because I'm that height and I consider myself short. I never would have guessed that based on the original films.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Watched it last night.

Overall really enjoyed it though in true RR/Deadpool style they ran A LOT of jokes into the ground so it would've been great if they showed a tiny bit more restraint. But folks....THIS IS HOW YOU DO A MULTIVERSE film! I was smiling A LOT throughout.

Multiverse of Madness looks like a Multiverse of jokes after this lol. All the cameos and roles that we got is how it should've been handled. Same with The Flash....The Flash looks like an even bigger joke with their multiverse scenes.

I mean....you gave me Chris Evans as Johnny Storm again! He played more of just an outlandish version of Chris Evans.....but it was still exciting. Esp seeing him in the suit and flame on.

You gave us Channing as GAMBIT! The guy who was supposed to play Gambit and it never got off the ground...we got to properly see what he could've brought to the role.

We got BLADE! I was not expecting to see OG Blade in this.

Hell you even gave us my baby daddy, Henry Cavill as Wolverine!

Every multiverse role actually was respected which is the best thing. They had good meat to their roles.

The biggest disappointment is that we didnt get Storm/Jean/Cyclops in any type of role. I was really hoping to see them and have them done properly one last time given that this is essentially a love letter to the Fox-verse and they launched it but....the whole point is that Wolverine was the center and they definitely drove that home.

I was expecting AU!Wolverine to go to the X-Mansion and meet up and embrace them.

Cassandra Nova was an eXcellent villain along with Paradox. Some of the best MCU villains we've gotten.

Lady Deadpool though....I was disappointed. No meat to her at all.

7.7/10.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I’m so glad I went into this film cold without knowing too much. It made the experience that much more enjoyable when the cameos occurred such as Henry Cavill as a Wolverine variant, Wesley Snips as Blade, Chris Evans as Johnny Storm and Channing as Gambit. With X-23 (Laura) all grown up and Jen as Electra.

The film was hilarious and definitely more fun and heartfelt than expected. Jackman crushed it as Wolverine, it was worth 20 years to see him in the suit finally and when he dawned the cowl. I was delighted beyond words.

The ending with the tribute to the fox films was bittersweet and indeed a farewell to that version of x-men, fantastic four etc…

 

[Superhero 101]

Can we all talk about how awesome the scene was when Jackman donned the Cowl?!! That scene made the entire Theater roar!!

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I actually cheered when Wolverine said F the avengers

Take a backseat, chumps, the X-Boys are back in town

 

[kguillou]

I cannot tell you how i was HOWLING with a big grin on my face when Wesley showed up. That completely took me offguard.

And then the icing was him saying “Theres only ever gonna BE ONE BLADE!” Im shocked Feige let wesley proclaim that

 

[BobJM]

I wish I was onboard with people calling this a 'love letter' to the Fox films? How? The movie unceremoniously killed off the core X-Men offscreen (again) for the sake of forced character development for Logan (again).

The Others cameos provided some fun moments, I'll grant that, but amounted to little more than an extended punch-line, right?

Snipes was only there to say his 'ice-skating uphill line' again (which felt very reminiscent of Molina & Dafoe lifelessly reciting Raimi trilogy dialogue in NWH) and give space for Reynolds to allude they worked together on Blade Trinity--it's not like the Blade movies were ever in the Fox verse. And, honestly, are we going to get a Blade MCU reboot? Lol Deadpool seemed so sure with his fourth wall-breaking moment to the audience, but all news seems to indicate its stuck in development hell.

And Garner's Elektra was an improvement over her original appearance and 2005 spin-off movie...I guess? Again, it just seems like she recently worked with Reynolds, so it was easy to get her on the phone and film for half-a-day. Was anyone really clamoring for the glorious return of vanilla / white-bread Jennifer Garner as Greek assassin femme fatala Elektra Natchios?

Tatum as Gambit was the easiest pill to swallow. At least that's an X-Men character.

And most of the other VOID cameos weren't even the same actors. A different actor for Juggernaut, Toad, Lady Deathstrike, Azazel... if we're not going for legacy casting, then could we at least give them comic-accurate costumes too?

 

[Venom 1988]

I wish I was onboard with people calling this a 'love letter' to the Fox films? How? The movie unceremoniously killed off the core X-Men offscreen (again) for the sake of forced character development for Logan (again).

It's a love letter in the sense that yea it's taking the piss out of them at times but also showing homage to them as well. Basically it's honoring the good, the bad and everything inbetween.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Didn't Vinnie Jones reject an offer to return? I feel like I heard that a while ago. One could say he could have been subbed for someone else, but the helmet was a plot point so I guess he couldn't easily be swapped.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's a love letter in the sense that yea it's taking the piss out of them at times but also showing homage to them as well. Basically it's honoring the good, the bad and everything inbetween.

Also, this wasn't Deadpool & X-Men. It was Deadpool &  WOLVERINE. Also, we dont really know who had return offers to comeback and maybe just....didnt.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I’m still gonna hold out hope we see the FoX-Men in an upcoming movie, whether it be one of the two avenger movies or something else

You don’t put Beast in that marvels post credit scene and not pay it off somehow

 

[Cap2024]

I wish I was onboard with people calling this a 'love letter' to the Fox films? How? The movie unceremoniously killed off the core X-Men offscreen (again) for the sake of forced character development for Logan (again).

The Others cameos provided some fun moments, I'll grant that, but amounted to little more than an extended punch-line, right?

Snipes was only there to say his 'ice-skating uphill line' again (which felt very reminiscent of Molina & Dafoe lifelessly reciting Raimi trilogy dialogue in NWH) and give space for Reynolds to allude they worked together on Blade Trinity--it's not like the Blade movies were ever in the Fox verse. And, honestly, are we going to get a Blade MCU reboot? Lol Deadpool seemed so sure with his fourth wall-breaking moment to the audience, but all news seems to indicate its stuck in development hell.

And Garner's Elektra was an improvement over her original appearance and 2005 spin-off movie...I guess? Again, it just seems like she recently worked with Reynolds, so it was easy to get her on the phone and film for half-a-day. Was anyone really clamoring for the glorious return of vanilla / white-bread Jennifer Garner as Greek assassin femme fatala Elektra Natchios?

Tatum as Gambit was the easiest pill to swallow. At least that's an X-Men character.

And most of the other VOID cameos weren't even the same actors. A different actor for Juggernaut, Toad, Lady Deathstrike, Azazel... if we're not going for legacy casting, then could we at least give them comic-accurate costumes too?

I’ d say partially, but not all the way nor did it seem like they ever intended to go all the way. As you stated, many (Human Torch) were mainly used for punchlines.

If they fully wanted it to have that weight and gravitas - they definitely could have. Thus, they chose not to.

I’m still gonna hold out hope we see the FoX-Men in an upcoming movie, whether it be one of the two avenger movies or something else

You don’t put Beast in that marvels post credit scene and not pay it off somehow

They undoubtedly will.

The ending with the tribute to the fox films was bittersweet and indeed a farewell to that version of x-men, fantastic four etc…

I wouldn’t say a farewell.

In filmmaking every dialogue line matters.

That promise B-15 made to Deadpool? That’s definitely a set-up. If it wasn’t, Marvel wouldn’t be making false promises.

The end credits also were more than likely a reminder of “hey, who’s can show up” rather than a farewell.

 

[Venom 1988]

Didn't Vinnie Jones reject an offer to return? I feel like I heard that a while ago. One could say he could have been subbed for someone else, but the helmet was a plot point so I guess he couldn't easily be swapped.

Yea basically he didn't want to return because it was a pain putting on the suit and they weren't gonna pay him enough to go through that process again.

 

[Heretic]

I really don't understand at all what people mean when they say this:

1) Deadpool and Wolverine are set to work for the TVA in protecting the timelines. Hunter B-15 recruits their help in the end for future TVA missions (timing wise, that's going to be the next Avengers films). Deadpool and Wolverine are the only ones (outside of Loki) who got recruited by the TVA. This places them front and center.

2) Deadpool assembles basically an Avengers type multiverse team (Blade, Electra, Gambit, Wolverine) with the TVA at the end promising to bring them all back. This team will undoubtably factor into Secret Wars.

3) It brings Fox's Daredevil and Fantastic Four into the fold, it brought Blade into the fold (showing not only Fox and Sony heroes will later come into play; this potentially opens the door for Thomas Jane Punisher), it also hints that just the films made might not be the only ones to be included in some way in the multiverse (Gambit).

4) It adds new ideas that will more than likely be in Secret Wars: Anchor, Time Ripper, timelines can be saved.

There were a lot of seeds that will undoubtably impact the

All of those characters were out there already and could be used in Secret Wars or whatever. Yeah, this film "brought them together" but by the end the multiverse was in the same spot it was in when before the movie came out. This movie was hyped by Feige as being an 8 (while saying that Infinity War and Endgame were a 9 and 10) as far as how much it impacted the future of the MCU.

 

[Cap2024]

All of those characters were out there already and could be used in Secret Wars or whatever. Yeah, this film "brought them together" but by the end the multiverse was in the same spot it was in when before the movie came out. This movie was hyped by Feige as being an 8 (while saying that Infinity War and Endgame were a 9 and 10) as far as how much it impacted the future of the MCU.

Probably a difference in terms of linguistics.

Some people took “impact” as propelling the story forward, which it did somewhat- Deadpool, Wolverine, and co working with the TVA.

Whereas to avoid confusion, the term “set up” may have been more straightforward in explaining it. Ie. Teams, terminology, etc. especially for general audiences who haven’t seen Loki.

 

[Venom 1988]

All of those characters were out there already and could be used in Secret Wars or whatever. Yeah, this film "brought them together" but by the end the multiverse was in the same spot it was in when before the movie came out. This movie was hyped by Feige as being an 8 (while saying that Infinity War and Endgame were a 9 and 10) as far as how much it impacted the future of the MCU.

I agree I think maybe an 8 is to high (I'd say 6 or 7) but I would say this movie is trying to plant some of the seeds. Cassandra's line about wanting to destory all the timelines so that only the Void is left basically makes me think that's whats going to end up happening (by someone else) and be the lead in for Secret Wars. I'm like 90% convinced that the Void is going to end up becoming Battleworld. Not to mention the rumors of Avengers 5 being an Avengers vs X-Men movie with the Fox actors.

 

[Cap2024]

I agree I think maybe an 8 is to high (I'd say 6 or 7) but I would say this movie is trying to plant some of the seeds. Cassandra's line about wanting to destory all the timelines so that only the Void is left basically makes me think that's whats going to end up happening (by someone else) and be the lead in for Secret Wars. I'm like 90% convinced that the Void is going to end up becoming Battleworld. Not to mention the rumors of Avengers 5 being an Avengers vs X-Men movie with the Fox actors.

Time ripper, absolutely.

I think it’s just a linguistics thing.

Kevin, you, and I all took “impact” as set-up, whereas others heard “impact” and thought it meant altering the MCU in a huge way.

Similarly to how Loki had a huge set-up. We got the timeline God whereas here we got the first group of heroes that will work with the TVA.

A part of me also wonders if we might see B-15 or hilariously Deadpool in the films between here and Avengers acting in a recruitment type way. Akin to Iron Man in The Incredible Hulk.

 

[Venom 1988]

Kevin, you, and I all took “impact” as set-up, whereas others heard “impact” and thought it meant altering the MCU in a huge way.

Dude I'm so not gonna get into this with you lol. Stop acting like you understand words better than everybody else.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree I think maybe an 8 is to high (I'd say 6 or 7) but I would say this movie is trying to plant some of the seeds. Cassandra's line about wanting to destory all the timelines so that only the Void is left basically makes me think that's whats going to end up happening (by someone else) and be the lead in for Secret Wars. I'm like 90% convinced that the Void is going to end up becoming Battleworld. Not to mention the rumors of Avengers 5 being an Avengers vs X-Men movie with the Fox actors.

Good call. Didn't even think of that option