Superman Returns Did Lex's plan make sense to anyone?

[The Overlord]

And what would the whole world do? throw rocks at him? Cause that is the only thing they would have been cabable of after Lex would have driven his plan into full gear.

A missile strike on Lex while he is the cave, doing nothing, that's what they could have done. You have no evidence that Lex set up any kind of defenses set up after the continent was formed, your just using guess work to fill the plot holes. Frankly what was he going do, if he had decided to do something, rather than just sit on his butt? Was he going to make a fortress, Superman's fortress couldn't keep Lex out, how is this new fortress going to be any better?

 

[The Guard]

If a plot point falls apart when you think about it beyond reasonable suspension of disbelief, then it's not a good plot point. Luthor's plot did not impress me. The thematics of it were fantastic. The execution was not.

 

[SuperDaniel]

^ Exactely. Like in every Superman movie so far, Superman was great, Luthor had the perfect actor but the storyline sucked. Sorry but i don`t buy supervillains who wants to destroy the world anymore. Ra`s plan was like this but his motivations were much better explained through the whole movie. Lex motivations were stupid, rehash of the 78 movie. Add that with goons who don`t speak a word, badly dressed character who was just there for laughs, stupid scenes of dogs licking fingers, eating other dogs, villains playing poker, trapped on a tiny island because they RAN OUT of gas and you got again a terrible Lex Luthor, even though Kevin Spacey was perfect. Sorry but this is what made Superman Returns a disappointment in my eyes. It is a good Superman movie but not great or classic.

 

[Steelsheen]

mechanical arms with a mind of its own...

that's one of the things i really disliked abotu SM2

 

[Emrys]

A missile strike on Lex while he is the cave, doing nothing, that's what they could have done. You have no evidence that Lex set up any kind of defenses set up after the continent was formed, your just using guess work to fill the plot holes. Frankly what was he going do, if he had decided to do something, rather than just sit on his butt? Was he going to make a fortress, Superman's fortress couldn't keep Lex out, how is this new fortress going to be any better?

A missle strike, after an EMP pulse that pretty much made all power sources break down?

I don't need it shown cause it's a logical conclusion on what the crystals can do, we are shown that they can grown transportation as well as housing, so it's not unreasonable to conclude that they can't grow weaponery also and like I have said many times in the current OYL comic arc that's exactly what they do, grow an Kryptonian war cruser, battle robots etc. All the evidence I need is what lex said and the camera showing the crystals.

Cause there is a difference between Lex's fortress and Supes?

Supes fortress is a sanctuary, a large library of knowledge not designed to be a place with heavy defenses, Lex's fortress on the other hand would not be such a thing cause Lex wouldn't design it to be such a thing.

What would he have done, how about grow a warship? like supes grew his ship to fly home to krypton? how about a defense perimeter made out of crystal spikes that spear anything that comes too close like what happened with the yacht. The same done on land if an army should land, spears growing out of the landmass? As for airstikes, how about his own little crystal missles that take down anything that comes close and poses a threat?

 

[The Guard]

A missle strike, after an EMP pulse that pretty much made all power sources break down?

The power came right back on two minutes later. The power loss was shown to be temporary.

If Luthor being able to defend himself was key to making his plan more realistic, why the hell didn't we see it? A simple airstrike where he shoots down planes, or even Superman, with Kryptonian weaponry? Now that would have been cool.

 

[PunisherPoster]

What would he have done, how about grow a warship? like supes grew his ship to fly home to krypton?

The problem is, none of these things were shown in the film, which is what everyone is criticizing. When did Superman grow a spaceship? And story arcs that are happening in the comics are irrevelant.

It's funny that the screenwriters talked about how they couldn't assume people would know what kryptonite was, so they still had to explain it. Yet, they obviously didn't feel the same responsibility to explain that Lex could build a giant "war cruiser".

The guy had five little crystals left. And based on what the film showed, his options for using them were fairly limited. This is all we can really judge- not explanations that exist outside of the movie.

 

[Emrys]

The power came right back on two minutes later. The power less was shown to be temporary.

If Luthor being able to defend himself was key to making his plan more realistic, why the hell didn't we see it? A simple airstrike where he shoots down planes, or even Superman, with Kryptonian weaponry? Now that would have been cool.

Because this is "Superman Returns" and not the "Army Attacks" it was totaly unimportant to see it, all that was needed was Lois making a comment and Lex saying that he's prepared and a Close Up of the remaining crystals.

And why would he want to shoot Superman with it? He WANTED him to set foot onto NK cause the whole continent was an elaborate death trap for Supes.

 

[Emrys]

The problem is, none of these things were shown in the film, which is what everyone is criticizing. When did Superman grow a spaceship? And story arcs that are happening in the comics are irrevelant.

It's funny that the screenwriters talked about how they couldn't assume people would know what kryptonite was, so they still had to explain it. Yet, they obviously didn't feel the same responsibility to explain that Lex could build a giant "war cruiser".

The guy had five little crystals left. And based on what the film showed, his options for using them were fairly limited. This is all we can really judge- not explanations that exist outside of the movie.

They don't have to be shown just hinted at. When did he grow a space ship uhmmm when he flew back to the remains of Krypton perhaps?

Limited to what? they can grow a spacehip, a fortress with Kryptonian data storage technology and a landmass. Krypton's whole civilization was based around those Krystals as the first movie has clearly shown, therefore it's absolutely logical to conclude that Kryptons defences also were created from crystals.

 

[The Guard]

Because this is "Superman Returns" and not the "Army Attacks" it was totaly unimportant to see it, all that was needed was Lois making a comment and Lex saying that he's prepared and a Close Up of the remaining crystals.

I think the Air Force would be involved, not the Army. Not important to see? True, but it would definitely be a welcome addition to the film. I'm sitting there going "This is dumb...the Air Force could just nuke it or something". But it's important to see cops and SWAT responding to the bank robbery? Give me a break. In this case, suspension of disbelief almost requires it. If we want to see Luthor as a threat after the quake has stopped, then we need to see why he's a threat to the Earth. I don't think "He's growing a giant blackish green rock" and him going "I'll have alien technology so bring it on" counts. Why would he want to shoot Superman down? Here's an idea...FOR FUN, because he enjoys torturing the man. Hasn't Luthor always been all about testing Superman? It even works thematically. Hasn't Luthor always wanted to take Superman out of the sky? Plus, it would piss him off even MORE, causing him to abandon caution when landing on New Krypton.

 

[The Overlord]

Because this is "Superman Returns" and not the "Army Attacks" it was totaly unimportant to see it, all that was needed was Lois making a comment and Lex saying that he's prepared and a Close Up of the remaining crystals.

And why would he want to shoot Superman with it? He WANTED him to set foot onto NK cause the whole continent was an elaborate death trap for Supes.

Lex using this tech to repel a military strike would have been bad @ss, it would shown that the military was powerless to stop Lex and only Superman can stop this thing. Plus you could have had some fights between Superman and alien tech weapons, again Bad @ss and would have provided some much needed action. It would have been better than what we got.

 

[The Guard]

Know why else seeing Lex have some Kryptonian weaponry would have been cool? It speaks to the "mad scientist" version of the character that much more, and since he's clearly descending into "madness" as the story progresses, it works perfectly thematically and storywise for the character, as well as providing a "surprise" that serves to distract the audience before "THE surprise" (The Kryptonite laced island). Hell, he could utilize a thematic "Death Ray" on film. How cool would that have been?

 

[PunisherPoster]

They don't have to be shown just hinted at. When did he grow a space ship uhmmm when he flew back to the remains of Krypton perhaps?

Well that was never even "hinted at" in the film.

 

[The Overlord]

A missle strike, after an EMP pulse that pretty much made all power sources break down?

I don't need it shown cause it's a logical conclusion on what the crystals can do, we are shown that they can grown transportation as well as housing, so it's not unreasonable to conclude that they can't grow weaponery also and like I have said many times in the current OYL comic arc that's exactly what they do, grow an Kryptonian war cruser, battle robots etc. All the evidence I need is what lex said and the camera showing the crystals.

Cause there is a difference between Lex's fortress and Supes?

Supes fortress is a sanctuary, a large library of knowledge not designed to be a place with heavy defenses, Lex's fortress on the other hand would not be such a thing cause Lex wouldn't design it to be such a thing.

What would he have done, how about grow a warship? like supes grew his ship to fly home to krypton? how about a defense perimeter made out of crystal spikes that spear anything that comes too close like what happened with the yacht. The same done on land if an army should land, spears growing out of the landmass? As for airstikes, how about his own little crystal missles that take down anything that comes close and poses a threat?

Why didn't Lex grow a warship then, that have been a bad @ss move, Superman vs. a giant alien warship would have been way cooler than what we got. Screw this "hinting" at the weapons, they should have shown them action. Instead Lex sat around like an idiot, either he couldn't build these weapons or he could, but he was being an idiot and left himself defensesless against a military strike (the EMP only took out power for two minutes). If Lex could have made weapons, he should have done so right away, since he didn't, it proves he is an idiot.

 

[Emrys]

Well that was never even "hinted at" in the film.

and how do you think he got the spaceship? Did he order it in a catalogue or something?

 

[Emrys]

Why didn't Lex grow a warship then, that have been a bad @ss move, Superman vs. a giant alien warship would have been way cooler than what we got. Screw this "hinting" at the weapons, they should have shown them action. Instead Lex sat around like an idiot, either he couldn't build these weapons or he could, but he was being an idiot and left himself defensesless against a military strike (the EMP only took out power for two minutes). If Lex could have made weapons, he should have done so right away, since he didn't, it proves he is an idiot.

Because he wanted to lure Superman into a trap and not bombard him with a war ship that probably wouldn't be enough to kill an invulnerable Super being?

No they should not have cause they are absolutely not important to how the whole thing played out.

Or he didn't need them cause he knew that probably most of the US defence was crippled thanks to the EMP and ift hey were going to attack that he had enough time to use one of the crystals to grow himself something.

Another possibility is that NK already had defense mechanism but since no one was attacking him he didn't have to use them.

 

[PunisherPoster]

and how do you think he got the spaceship? Did he order it in a catalogue or something?

It's a good question...and yet another one that the film neglects to answer.

My personal assumption was that he rebuilt the original ship from STM, since it was obviously intended to be a nod to that film. But again, the film made no attempt to explain this, much like a lot of the plot.

 

[The Overlord]

and how do you think he got the spaceship? Did he order it in a catalogue or something?

How do you know Supes didn't just use the ship that brought him to Earth in the first place? Again, your using guess work to cover plot holes and your not doing a very good job of it.

 

[The Overlord]

Because he wanted to lure Superman into a trap and not bombard him with a war ship that probably wouldn't be enough to kill an invulnerable Super being?

No they should not have cause they are absolutely not important to how the whole thing played out.

Or he didn't need them cause he knew that probably most of the US defence was crippled thanks to the EMP and ift hey were going to attack that he had enough time to use one of the crystals to grow himself something.

Another possibility is that NK already had defense mechanism but since no one was attacking him he didn't have to use them.

Superman has been hurt by advanced alien technology in the comics, so why wouldn't an advanced alien warship be able to hurt him in the movies? Besides if Lex was so clever, why not create the warship as a backup? In the first movie Lex used kryptonite and third party saved Superman, which is what happened this time as well, Lex had no back up plan. I guess Lex is too dense to learn from his mistakes. That's all assuming he could create such a warship, which is nothing more than guess work on your part.

The EMP only lasted two minutes, then everything came back online, so the military could have made a strike against Lex, but plot induced stupidity prevented them from doing so, if it wasn't for that Lex would have dead.

Again your using guess work to fill in plot holes, you have no evidence that Lex had any real defense set up to deal with a military strike, its justy more of your guess work.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Fortress doesn't have weapons either. What is too say that they make weapons at all. All I see from the Fortress and continent is rocks/crystals. That is it. It is another oversight by Singer and co.

 

[Jakomus]

Flaws of Ra's Al Guhl's plot in Batman Begins:

- the microwave emitter should have fried all human life around it, the water around the island should have been bubbling

- fear gas is temporary, once the gotham citizens regained their senses it wouldn't matter if 'the city tore itself apart', the government would have sent aid.

- What did Ra's plan to do with the torn apart Gotham? He couldn't just take over it, the military would have been on him in seconds.

- Would the microwave emitter really cause the water to evaporate as fast as a speeding monorail?

Flaws of Doc Ock's plot in Spider-Man 2

- So, if he did create a successful fusion reaction, what was he going to do? Announce it at a science exhibit even though he is wanted for robbing banks and failing to stop his first experiment despite being told to do so, resulting in the death of his wife?

That's funny, I thought you were hailing these as being good movies, but their plots don't make sense, so I guess they sucked.

 

[HoratioRome]

Reading the various justifications for this films plot holes is depressing. These are truely a testament to how delusional this lot of people has become.

me too. I was almost compelled to respond to some of the comments but you know what? it would be a waste of time. For people to find justification for this film and this plot means the delusion is so great that NOTHING could possibly make a difference.

So let me help the defenders because they obviously have a need to legitimize this movie for their state of mind.

Luthor's plan was brilliant. What we don't know is that the crystals, while growing this new continent would also save the top 30% of the north American continent, and preserve their wealth and their assets. The crystals would also save ALL the necessary equipment and vehicles, and things like clothing and tools that would allow people to live on a totally new and barren continent. Furthermore, the crystals would not only create a new continent, but this continent would quickly change into a lush green landscape where vegetation would quickly grow. The crystal rock formation was CLEARLY just the beginning. ANd Speaking of vegetation, there are some crystals who's only purpose is to provide ALL the seeds for all types of vegetation for this new land. There are also crystals designed to create animals for this continent. Only the good ones though. No more bugs and creepy stuff. oh and the thrid crytals creates instant housing, fully furnished and equiped.
So Thos e of you who don't think this plan was brilliant are wrong. It is a brilliant plan because who would not want to move to this new paradise and pay through the nose for it.
As for protection, let's see. Those who think this plot is ridiculous clearly don't know about the crystals that are capable of creating INSTANT weaponry. Nevermind that there is no evidence of that ANYWHERE,..just trust me. oh and forget about the fact that Luthor didn't use any of that weaponary against Superman. Or that he had NOTHING planned to protect himself or his crew from even a minor quake. The reason is obvioulsy that he likes to stab people and he wanted to kill his other 2 henchmen. It is VERY obvious that The weapon crystals would allow Lex to control every inch of this continent. It would protect him from personal attacks (you know from some of the 30% who just might be pissed off), as well as from every conceivable military attack. As long as they don't drop big chunks of crystals on him he would be fine. Truth be told the crystals would simply make Luthor the most powerful man on earth. Just think about it for a second.

WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? why would he need to create a NEW continent? why not take over the existing one with his new found power? well ,..well,...
hey he likes killing BILLIONS of people and starting from scratch.
besides the new continent has kryptonite so Superman would be helpless to do anything on that continent. Yes he could obvioulsy fly over it,..and pick up HUGE CHUNKS of it and throw it into space. Yes I realize that he could hover over it and shoot heat rays down upon Lex ,. I know all that. The point is he couldn WALK on it. so he ,...would,..be ,...helpless,? cause Superman likes to walk,...yes!.... that's it. Superman Likes to walk on land. that's why he walks on the farm instead of fly. man that's so obvious. So instead of Luthor using KRYPTONITE technology to beat the crap out of Superman and drain his powers, he HAD to make a continent Superman couldn't walk on. oh and I know what you're thinking and the answer is YES. It had to be a continent, not an Island, or like an area of 500 square miles. A continent has a better ring to it. and Luthor is NOTHING if not poetic.

So yes I get it now Luthor's plan WAS in fact brilliant.

 

[Jakomus]

The Fortress doesn't have weapons either. What is too say that they make weapons at all. All I see from the Fortress and continent is rocks/crystals. That is it. It is another oversight by Singer and co.

You mean it's your oversight. In Superman II, it was shown the fortress had weapons. For example, the device that caused multiple crystal copies of Superman to appear, and the giant enveloping S. Also, devices akin to the red sun chamber could be used to emit dangerous radition.

 

[Morgoth]

A kryptonite laced land mass is a lot safer than a yacht.

Bingo. Nuff said!

 

[Morgoth]

Lex is evil, it was evil, it's what he does. He just wanted a Kryptonite land to be safe from Superman. It's a classic Lex type thing to do. This movie is perfect.