Did Sandman and Venom present a greater threat than previous villains?

[Barney Stinson]

Don't forget the only reason Sandman was able to do that was because of Venom

and you seem to be forgetting that there wasn't a single thing spidey could do even under the influence of the symbiot that could really leave sandman subdued. Sandman came back every time, plus sandman gave spidey a serious beating on all occasions in which they fought. At the end of the day, Sandman was the only villain that spidey couldn't defeat.

 

[omid17]

Sandman came back every time, plus sandman gave spidey a serious beating on all occasions in which they fought.

no he didn't, sandman just running away or he was drowning the whole time. i think you never watched the subway scene, spider-man effed up Sandman the whole time.

and the only reason why Sandman was getting some hits on spidey at the final battle was because spidey needed to help both his best friend and mary jane

 

[Barney Stinson]

Oh I watched sm3 but it looks like your bias has blinded you. Armoured truck scene, sandman owned the hell out of spidey....and when did sandman runaway at any point in the film? Second fight, subway scene, sure spidey "won" that fight but sandman still managed to give spidey a hell of a beating...and that is with spidey with the symbiot on. Spidey tries to kill sandman by drowning him but fails and sandman comes back, seeking revenge. Final fight, it doesn't matter who helped who, the fact of the matter is, sandman owned spidey and almost pummeled him to death.
Like I said, at the end of the day, spidey couldn't beat sandman...end of story.

 

[omid17]

Oh I watched sm3 but it looks like your bias has blinded you. Armoured truck scene, sandman owned the hell out of spidey....and when did sandman runaway at any point in the film? Second fight, subway scene, sure spidey "won" that fight but sandman still managed to give spidey a hell of a beating...and that is with spidey with the symbiot on. Spidey tries to kill sandman by drowning him but fails and sandman comes back, seeking revenge. Final fight, it doesn't matter who helped who, the fact of the matter is, sandman owned spidey and almost pummeled him to death.
Like I said, at the end of the day, spidey couldn't beat sandman...end of story.

armored truck scene, right after the armor truck crashed, spidey came out, and you see flint look at spidey than goes away, imo thats running away

Sandman only did one upper-cut and kicked him in the stomach,thats it!

Wrong agian, he was still trying to get some money for his kid, don't you remember when Venom first met with Sandman, Flint threw him out of the way( thinking he was spider-man )

 

[Spade]

With Spiderman 1 and 2, both the Green Goblin and Dr. Ock had presented not only as a great threat towards Spiderman, but to everyone else in New York in General. Yet with Spiderman 3, in my opinion, neither Sandman, Harry, or Venom had presented that same dangerous factor that the previous villains have had.

Harry didn't even qualify as a threat. His plan to get back at Peter was so flawed I couldn't take him seriously. That's not to say that Venom was any more intelligent, but at least his plan for grand irritation wasn't formed after a physical beatdown from Spidey.

Hell, after seeing the bootlegged version of TDK teaser, the Joker presents a much more greater threat towards a city even though he doesn't have any powers.

That's the power of presence and development, both of which this movie lacked.

 

[Visionary]

Not really, you can shoot Joker and kill him dead (no need for Batman), but I doubt the cops are even going to try it, yet he'll be in full view of the entire police force. And why does every villain have to be a threat to the city, it's just more generic comic book writing? Which we're going to see plenty of in both Iron Man and TDK, no doubt.

 

[Spade]

The Dark Knight? Maybe. But Obadiah Stane has always been a personal foe for Stark, and (if he's still in the film) the Mandarin is more about world domination.

 

[Visionary]

World domination? More generic comic book writing in film. I wonder if he's going to twiddle his mustache too.

 

[Blader5489]

Harry didn't even qualify as a threat. His plan to get back at Peter was so flawed I couldn't take him seriously.

Or maybe you had just shut your brain off.

Harry's plan was the same as his father's: screw with Peter's head to the point of hurting him, which will lure him into battle; then kill him. Hence why they had Norman repeat, "First we attack his heart!"

 

[Spade]

Or maybe you had just shut your brain off.

Harry's plan was the same as his father's: screw with Peter's head to the point of hurting him, which will lure him into battle; then kill him. Hence why they had Norman repeat, "First we attack his heart!"

His plan was still flawed. The last time he tangled with Peter, he became an amnesiac. So what's his brilliant plan? Instead of doing something that would put Peter at a disadvantage the next time they met to avoid getting the color kicked out of him, he makes MJ break up with Peter and then riles him up by telling him. And what changes? Nothing, because in his brilliance he decided to change zilch about his arsenal and tactics when their rematch occurs. Copying his father isn't an excuse; his father took the roundabout approach and ended up crotch-impaled. The only thing the "New" Goblin's "plan to kill Peter" implies is that he had the same death wish as his old man.

My brain works just fine, but thanks for asking.

 

[Blader5489]

The last time he tangled with Peter, he became an amnesiac.

The last time he tangled with Peter, he was blinded by rage and being impetuous. Peter was the one with his head on straight, using the surroundings to his advantage, which allowed him to gain the upper hand. If Harry had been paying attention, instead of flying around in "I'm gonna kill you" mode, he might have avoided taking a face plant.

So what's his brilliant plan? Instead of doing something that would put Peter at a disadvantage the next time they met to avoid getting the color kicked out of him, he makes MJ break up with Peter and then riles him up by telling him. And what changes? Nothing, because in his brilliance he decided to change zilch about his arsenal and tactics when their rematch occurs.

Two of the things that Peter values most in his life are his relationship with MJ and friendship with Harry. Harry knows this, hence the double whammy of betrayals ("I've fallen in love with someone else" and "I'm the other guy). The point was to **** with Peter's mind and get him so riled up that he would attack Harry out of anger; he was planning on it. It was a role reversal from earlier, where this time Harry would be the one thinking (and fighting) clearly while Peter would be too distracted by his own emotions. Harry only lost the fight because he wasn't counting on Peter having an alien suit that could actually make use of that anger and turn it into an overwhelming force.

Copying his father isn't an excuse; his father took the roundabout approach and ended up crotch-impaled. The only thing the "New" Goblin's "plan to kill Peter" implies is that he had the same death wish as his old man.

Considering Harry didn't know the circumstances of his father's death, there was no way for him to know what the endgame was. And in any event, Harry following in his father's footsteps work's to the movie's advantage in bringing the trilogy full circle.

My brain works just fine, but thanks for asking.

Just checking.

 

[Barney Stinson]

armored truck scene, right after the armor truck crashed, spidey came out, and you see flint look at spidey than goes away, imo thats running away

Um, running away? The guy merely walked off. Sandman already told spidey that he didn't want to hurt him, he had no beef with spider-man, he just wanted the money. Then, the truck crashes. Sandman doesn't need to stick around for a fight with spidey with all those people around...at that time because sandman could get ahold of money at any other time and that's precisely what he did...but he did not run away.

Sandman only did one upper-cut and kicked him in the stomach,thats it!

Really? Because in addition to that, I saw sandman do a backward headbut to spidey and then sent spidey's ass flying into the sides of the passing trains, that still constitutes a hell of a beating.

Wrong agian, he was still trying to get some money for his kid, don't you remember when Venom first met with Sandman, Flint threw him out of the way( thinking he was spider-man )

...and that proves what? My overall point is that, spidey couldn't beat sandman.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh I watched sm3 but it looks like your bias has blinded you. Armoured truck scene, sandman owned the hell out of spidey....and when did sandman runaway at any point in the film? Second fight, subway scene, sure spidey "won" that fight but sandman still managed to give spidey a hell of a beating...and that is with spidey with the symbiot on. Spidey tries to kill sandman by drowning him but fails and sandman comes back, seeking revenge. Final fight, it doesn't matter who helped who, the fact of the matter is, sandman owned spidey and almost pummeled him to death.
Like I said, at the end of the day, spidey couldn't beat sandman...end of story.

Symbiote Spiderman did beat Sandman though, in the sub-way fight, Sandman only got one or two hits on Spiderman, neither of which Spidey didnt take without coming straight back at Sandy with no ill effects. Sandman was put out of commission for at least a couple of days after that fight, if thats not winning, i dont know what is.

 

[Visionary]

Am I the only one here who loves it, when the villain kicks the heroes ass? Just makes them worthy to these eyes. Spidey's villains are not easy to beat, okay not all of them, but most of them, when you don't ***** up their abilities.

 

[Barney Stinson]

Symbiote Spiderman did beat Sandman though, in the sub-way fight, Sandman only got one or two hits on Spiderman, neither of which Spidey didnt take without coming straight back at Sandy with no ill effects. Sandman was put out of commission for at least a couple of days after that fight, if thats not winning, i dont know what is.

I'm not disputing that. I already said that Sandman won that fight. However, I said that sandman still gave him a beating and that ultimately in the long run of things, spider-man couldn't defeat sandman.

 

[Visionary]

Sandman can't ever be truly beaten by Spider-Man. Maybe stopped for a while, but other than that, nothing doing. The MoFo will just keep reforming.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm not disputing that. I already said that Sandman won that fight. However, I said that sandman still gave him a beating and that ultimately in the long run of things, spider-man couldn't defeat sandman.

Yes, but, one-on-one, Sandman couldnt defeat Spiderman either.

 

[Stevens25]

How would Sandman survive water is my question? Has he done so in the comics? He has to have some major weakness?

 

[Blader5489]

How would Sandman survive water is my question?

How wouldn't he? Water would only scatter him, it couldn't destroy each grain of sand.

Has he done so in the comics?

Yes.

He has to have some major weakness?

Nope.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Was watching Spiderman 1 last night and the Green Goblin brought Spiderman as close to death as Sandman did and GG did it WITHOUT help. And come to think of it so did Doc Ock, if it wasnt for his deal with Harry, he could have easily killed Spidey after the train incident.

So they both come accross as more dangerous than Venom and Sandman IMO.

 

[Barney Stinson]

Yes, but, one-on-one, Sandman couldnt defeat Spiderman either.

Are you kidding me?? Sandman completely outclassed spider-man in the armoured truck scene. Spider-Man only got the better of sandman when he had the symbiot and even then, it's hard to say that spider-man would have completely owned him had they not fought anywhere near where water was present. Also, the final fight would have had sandman own spider-man anyway, with or without venom's help. Sandman was away from water, spider-man was without the symbiot and sandman had sand and concrete all over the place to aid him. Like I said, one on one...spider-man can't beat sandman.

 

[Barney Stinson]

Was watching Spiderman 1 last night and the Green Goblin brought Spiderman as close to death as Sandman did and GG did it WITHOUT help. And come to think of it so did Doc Ock, if it wasnt for his deal with Harry, he could have easily killed Spidey after the train incident.

So they both come accross as more dangerous than Venom and Sandman IMO.

You have to understand that GG and Doc Ock did what they did for selfish reasons and its those reasons that ultimately killed them. Sandman wasn't out to kill spider-man like GG and Ock, sandman only wanted to help his daughter. Spider-man to sandman was just an obstacle who in later events wanted to seek revenge on. However, the defining factor is, sandman knows spidey's ID and is more importantly still alive and on the loose. As of now, potentially sandman is spidey's biggest threat because when it's all said and done, sandman is pretty much unstoppable.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Are you kidding me?? Sandman completely outclassed spider-man in the armoured truck scene. Spider-Man only got the better of sandman when he had the symbiot and even then, it's hard to say that spider-man would have completely owned him had they not fought anywhere near where water was present. Also, the final fight would have had sandman own spider-man anyway, with or without venom's help. Sandman was away from water, spider-man was without the symbiot and sandman had sand and concrete all over the place to aid him. Like I said, one on one...spider-man can't beat sandman.

I dont see how Sandman outclassed Spidey in that scene at all, Spiderman preventing Sandman from getting the money, AND saved the lives of the guards, and suffered NO ill effects from their battle. Sandman didnt even hurt Spiderman seriously, like GG and Ock were able to do. But for a bit of arrogance i think Spiderman would have given a better account of himself in the fight but by no means was he 'outclassed' as you put it.

Plus in the Subway fight, Sandman got 4 hits on Spiderman at the most, not exactly a beating.

You have to understand that GG and Doc Ock did what they did for selfish reasons and its those reasons that ultimately killed them. Sandman wasn't out to kill spider-man like GG and Ock, sandman only wanted to help his daughter. Spider-man to sandman was just an obstacle who in later events wanted to seek revenge on. However, the defining factor is, sandman knows spidey's ID and is more importantly still alive and on the loose. As of now, potentially sandman is spidey's biggest threat because when it's all said and done, sandman is pretty much unstoppable.

But Spiderman wasnt the sole purpose of Ock or GG, just like Sandman, the fact of the matter is with all 3, Spiderman simply got in their way and thats why they wanted to dispose of him. BUT, both Ock and GG had Spiderman on deaths door WITHOUT any help.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Sandman can't ever be truly beaten by Spider-Man. Maybe stopped for a while, but other than that, nothing doing. The MoFo will just keep reforming.

Yeah, even cement wouldn't stop him forever, which is a very big weapon to use on Sandman.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So he is truly indestructable? Unless he comes up against someone like The Pheonix of The Silver Surfer?