Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party VII

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It's not exactly that but more along the lines of how can anybody support Gingrich over Romney when Gingrich has done almost everything Romney has in terms of ideology but even more to the left. Is the hard core right winged anti-Romney vote that ignorant?

When you put it in the context of the average Republican voter's mindset, then okay, that makes sense. I just hate how Republicans have elevated ignorance to the level of dogma. In their thinking, caring about the environment has somehow become the mark of hippies and ultra-left radicals, and that's insane. And of course, the crazier the Republicans get, the easier it is for Democrats to ignore their own actual record and just point to those craaaazy Republicans. Sadly, plenty of liberals and "progressives" fall for that. The Dems don't do anything to address climate change, but because they still acknowledge it as real, this still unfortunately puts them ahead of the Republicans, who deny reality altogether. But do you see how crazy it is that these are the only two options?

Writing a book about the environment like A Contract with the Earth was one of the few good things Newt Gingrich ever did. Even though I disagree with his "free market" solutions for the problem, I'm just glad that he's actually acknowledging there's a problem. Stopping climate change and the destruction of the ecosystem we all live in shouldn't be a political concern; it's a human concern. To watch right-wing know-nothings act as if there's no problem at all, that we should just keep on driving our SUVs and pumping oil and **** THE EARTH, makes me despair for humanity.

The idea that climate change is a hoax is a conspiracy theory in every definition of the word, and yet it is taken seriously by a third of the electorate and pushed continuously by corporate media. Even if that were true, I would just point them to this cartoon:

hoax.jpg
 
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This how the Republican Establishment help the Main-Stream Liberal Media.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/gop-will-take-gloves-if-ron-paul-wins-iowa/264111

Washington Examiner said:
GOP will take off the gloves if Ron Paul wins Iowa.

The Republican presidential primary has become a bit feisty, but it will get downright ugly if Ron Paul wins the Iowa caucuses.
The principled, antiwar, Constitution-obeying, Fed-hating, libertarian Republican congressman from Texas stands firmly outside the bounds of permissible dissent as drawn by either the Republican establishment or the mainstream media. (Disclosure: Paul wrote the foreword to my 2009 book.)
But in a crowded GOP field currently led by a collapsing Newt Gingrich and an uninspiring Mitt Romney, Paul could carry the Iowa caucuses, where supporter enthusiasm has so much value.
If Paul wins, how will the media and the GOP react? Much of the media will ignore him (expect headlines like "Romney Beats out Gingrich for Second Place in Iowa"). Some in the Republican establishment and the conservative media will panic. Others will calmly move to crush him, with the full cooperation of the liberal mainstream media.
For a historical analogy, study the aftermath of Pat Buchanan's 1996 victory in the New Hampshire primary. "It was awful," Buchanan told me this week when I asked him about his few days as the nominal GOP front-runner. "They come down on you with both feet."
The GOP establishment that week rallied to squash Buchanan. Just after New Hampshire, Gingrich's hand-picked group of GOP leaders, known as the Speaker's Advisory Group, met with one thing on their minds, according to a contemporaneous Newsweek report: "How to deal with Buchanan."
While many Republicans dismissed Buchanan's New Hampshire win as irrelevant, arguing his support was too narrow to ever win the nomination, the neoconservative wing of the GOP darkly warned of a Buchanan menace. "People are panicked," Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard told Newsweek. "If they're not, it's only because they don't know what's going on."
The liberal mainstream media dutifully filled out Kristol's picture of "what's going on." Newsweek put an ominously lit picture of Buchanan on the cover under the words "Preaching Fear." The article stretched itself into contortions to paint Buchanan as a white racist. (Buchanan was campaigning in South Carolina, which still flew the Confederate flag over its capitol.)
Ted Koppel, on "Nightline" in the days after New Hampshire, relied on unsubstantiated tales (for which he later apologized) about Buchanan's father as a way of tying the son to "bigoted and isolationist radio orator Father Coughlin." He also cited a Jewish neighbor of the Buchanans who was beaten up and called "Christ-killer" -- without mentioning that Pat was off at college at the time.
Insinuations of racism and anti-Semitism were the weapons of the mainstream media, but Buchanan's sins in the eyes of the GOP establishment were different. They feared Pat because he rejected a rare inviolable article of faith among the party elites: free trade. Also, in the post-Cold War era, Buchanan's foreign policy had become far less interventionist than that of the establishment.
It's similar with Paul. There are many reasons he is unacceptable to the Republican elite. Some of these transgressions reflect badly on Paul. Others reflect badly on the party.
In Paul's favor, he holds to the professed principles of his party. He makes Republicans look bad by firmly opposing overspending and the unconstitutional expansion of federal power. He correctly predicted the troubles that would be caused by housing subsidies and the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
Paul is also disliked for his foreign policy. His non-interventionism has provoked clashes with the party elites, but it resonates with a growing number of Republicans who have grown tired of endless war and nation building that doesn't seem to serve American interests. But Paul regularly goes too far for even these voters, criticizing the killing of al Qaeda leaders and at times sounding like he agrees with Iran's grievances against the United States.
But neither his establishment-irritating adherence to principle, nor his hawk-angering foreign policy, will be the focus of the anti-Paul attacks should he carry Iowa. His conservative critics and the mainstream media will imply that he is a racist, a kook, and a conspiracy theorist.
Paul's indiscretions -- such as abiding 9/11 conspiracy theorists and allowing racist material in a newsletter published under his name -- will be blown up to paint a scary caricature. His belief in state's rights and property rights will be distorted into support for Jim Crow and racism.
Many of Paul opponents will take heart in concluding that Paul cannot get more than 25 percent in any state, and so he can be dismissed as a spoiler. But for the enforcers of Republican orthodoxy, a Paul victory in Iowa will be an act of impudence that must be punished.
 
This how the Republican Establishment help the Main-Stream Liberal Media.

Well for argument sake they are helping out themselves more. It's sort of funny for the past couple days I seen a couple bits on Paul on MSNBC about why does the conservative media ignore Ron Paul and they sort of comment how they put him down then like 2-3 times in the piece they put down some of his stances on thing(they ignore the war thing which is more "liberal" then any democrat but bring up how his economic policies won't work)
 

That's a good article, and sadly, I'm thinking pretty accurate in terms of how the establishment views threats to its power. I'm always reminded of that line, "first they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win." Most of the time rebels against established power don't make it past the first three stages. Even if he wins some states, I don't think Ron Paul will. He's too old and his opposition is too strong.

I mostly like him for his foreign policy and his views on civil liberties and the Federal Reserve, but I think he's just another reactionary conservative in terms of domestic policy. Nevertheless, I would prefer him as president to Obama or any of the other GOP candidates.
 
PPP polling for the Iowa Caucuses has Ron Paul in the lead with 23%. Mitt Romney is second with 20%, Newt Gingrich's lead has been demolished with him standing at 14%. Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, and Rick Santorum are tied with 10%. Jon Huntsman is at 4%.
 
PPP polling for the Iowa Caucuses has Ron Paul in the lead with 23%. Mitt Romney is second with 20%, Newt Gingrich's lead has been demolished with him standing at 14%. Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, and Rick Santorum are tied with 10%. Jon Huntsman is at 4%.

Good. Paul would revoke the horrid SOPA and PIPA bills. Both have a real shot at passing and not being vetoed by Obama.
 
I wonder why Gingrich's stock has already plummeted in Iowa. Have I missed something?
 
I wonder why Gingrich's stock has already plummeted in Iowa. Have I missed something?

Yep. Two words. Ron. Paul. :)

Also I took a test on yahoo home page(redirects to like ABC news) but my top 3 GOP candidates that match my views...

1. Ron Paul
2. John Huntsman
3. Rick P--oh how I get him?!
 
If Ron Paul actually wins the GOP nomination for 2012, hell will have frozen over ETM. There has to be a legitimate reason for Gingrich's decline in Iowa and it's not Ron Paul.
 
If Ron Paul actually wins the GOP nomination for 2012, hell will have frozen over ETM. There has to be a legitimate reason for Gingrich's decline in Iowa and it's not Ron Paul.

Well.....I guess the people in hell won't be on fire, they be cold then.
 
If Ron Paul actually wins the GOP nomination for 2012, hell will have frozen over ETM. There has to be a legitimate reason for Gingrich's decline in Iowa and it's not Ron Paul.

Gingrich's decline can be attributed for many reasons:

First off, the Republican establishment, many of whom served with Gingrich in the House, have come out saying that Gingrich is not fit to lead.

Second, the conservative punditry, from the elite (Krauthammer, Will) to the rogue (Beck, Coulter) have come out against Gingrich.

Third, Newt's past is coming back to haunt him. Now that he's a frontrunner, he's getting the scrutiny that comes with it. From his rapid fall from power by the conservative faction of the GOP, to his ineefective leadership as Speaker of the House, to his three marriage, to his infidelity while he was persecuting Bill Clinton. to his support for a national individual mandate (a position that is even more left than Romey), to working with Nancy Pelosi on global warming, etc. More and more people are realizing that Newt just isn't a suitable anti-Romney candidate.

Fourth, Republicans first and foremost want someone that can beat Barack Obama. Gingrich has the perception that he cannot do that.

And fifth, Ron Paul, Michelle Bachmann, and the surrogates of Mitt Romney have viciously attacked Gingrich with a barrage of negative ads and statements.
 
PPP polling for the Iowa Caucuses has Ron Paul in the lead with 23%. Mitt Romney is second with 20%, Newt Gingrich's lead has been demolished with him standing at 14%. Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, and Rick Santorum are tied with 10%. Jon Huntsman is at 4%.

I know I've said it before, but polling in Iowa means nothing. Huntsman could win the Iowa caucus with a good grassroots ground team. It is all a matter of who can mobilize the loudest supporters who can stay the longest on that particular day. Caucuses really need to be done away with.
 
Who told me yet a week ago that Romney had no chance and that Newt was going strong?
 
Thing is, Newt can still win Iowa, regardless of polls. Of course, all that will happen if anyone but Romney or Huntsman wins Iowa is that the election will be drawn out until Super Tuesday (at the latest). The only one who can truly change anything by winning Iowa is Huntsman.
 
I don't see Newt winning Iowa considering that his organization in the state is practically non-existent.
 
No, he probably won't. I just mean that it could happen due to the nature of caucuses. You do not need a majority of support to win.
 
Insider Advantage polling in Iowa has Ron Paul in the lead with 24%, followed by Mitt Romney with 18%, Rick Perry with 16%, further confirmation that Newt Gingrich has been demolished with 13%, Michelle Bachmann at 10%, Jon Huntsman at 4%, and Rick Santorum dead last with 3%.

Ron Paul has taken the lead in the RCP Average with 21.7%, followed by Mitt Romney with 20.3%, and Newt Gingrich at 15.7%.
 
No, he probably won't. I just mean that it could happen due to the nature of caucuses. You do not need a majority of support to win.

You don't need a majority, but you do need organization and you do need to actually make appearances with the voters. Gingrich is doing none of that. Also, the man is bleeding supporters, which is a bad thing when the caucuses are two weeks away.
 
Over at Intrade, Newt's stock value has plummeted to hell. It's actually flirting around Ron Paul's value. There were a few instances where he dropped below Paul. That's how bad it is for Newt. Romney is at 60-70% now. This is hard to believe but it could end up being Romney vs Paul if this momentum keeps up.
 
Over at Intrade, Newt's stock value has plummeted to hell. It's actually flirting around Ron Paul's value. There were a few instances where he dropped below Paul. That's how bad it is for Newt. Romney is at 60-70% now. This is hard to believe but it could end up being Romney vs Paul if this momentum keeps up.

That's a good thing.
 
Family Leader, the Iowa social conservative group that propeled Mike Huckabee to victory in the state in 2008, has decided to not endorse a candidate for this cycle. Family Leader leader Bob Vanderplatts has personally endorsed Rick Santorum.
 
By the way, the House just voted down the payroll tax. Trying to avoid letting Obama beat them over the head for 2 more months with their blatant cynical hypocrisy is smart....if they actually would pass the extension for a year. The fact that they can't pass a tax cut for the middle class almost entirely because Obama wants it--at the risk of the entire economy--is so comically pathetic that it's reaching Shakespearian levels of farce.
 
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