Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party VII

[Marx]

This is the the real reason for what's going on. It's all posturing, and waiting to the last minute to try and force someone else's hand. They've had months to work out the issue with payroll taxes.

Democrats want to extend them for 2 months because that's all the funding they've found to cut. The GOP wants a year and had a proposal which could do that, but the democrats didnt like what was being cut.

Right now we're at an impass because neither party will work with the other. BOTH are to blame for the current situation, and BOTH should be forced to go back to DC and be chained to their seats until some kind of agreement is worked out that extends the cuts for 1 year and reduces pork to cover it.

Obama isnt helping but this isnt really his fight either. Quite frankly if you or I behaved the way the children in congress did we'd all be fired. Come November I say vote ALL the incumbents out.

This congress has convinced me that term limits are a good idea.

 

[Trigger]

I think Libertarianism could work great at a Federal level but not a state level. Where the libertarian party should focus on is winning a few house or senate seats in states that might be more open to there kind of politics(ie Western and North Eastern States).

Admittedly this is my own view, but libertarianism at it's most basic is about limiting the effect of governments on the rights of individuals. Philosophically it really shouldn't matter what level of government a person is operating on. In theory it could be practiced on both levels. In theory.

What I was getting at with the "political infrastructure" comment is that a lot of the political process is affected by state politics, and if Ron Paul were really interested in effecting some sort of change he'd be trying to create a stronger local presence for the libertarian party. The second half of your post is the ideal scenario.

Unfortunately Ron Paul isn't an actual libertarian, but that's a whole different conversation, lol.

Edit- I'm not for term limits since they only further incentivize lobbying and cronyism. We should focus on better campaign finance reform before we jump to discussion of term limits.

 

[Superman]

Payroll Tax Cut Fight: 'Wall Street Journal' Editorial Rips Boehner, McConnell

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/21/payroll-tax-cut-boehner-mcconnell_n_1162633.html

Well it looks like what I said above is right. When you've got the WSJ, A very conservative paper, and Repubs telling Boehner to make the deal because not making it is hurting the GOP, Then you've got some real problems.

If you want to play dumb and ignor the facts and try to pretend that this is going to hurt the Dems go right ahead but the facts speak for themselves.

This "Lets oppose EVERYTHING Obama does" tactic that Boehner and the GOP have been playing is going to bite them on the ass before it's over.

 

[Paradoxium]

The betting line on Intrade has Paul in Iowa now.

 

[DACrowe]

WSJ TURNS ON HOUSE REPUBLICANS, CALLS PAYROLL TAX POSTURING A "FIASCO" THAT HELPS OBAMA
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html

When the WSJ turns on Republicans, you know they are in trouble. Oh well.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Rasmussen polling in Iowa has Mitt Romney in the lead with 25% followed by Ron Paul with 20%. Newt Gingrich is at 17%, followed by Ricks Perry and Santorum with 10%. Michelle Bachmann is at 6% and Jon Huntsman is at 4.

 

[chaseter]

Payroll Tax Cut Fight: 'Wall Street Journal' Editorial Rips Boehner, McConnell

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/21/payroll-tax-cut-boehner-mcconnell_n_1162633.html

Well it looks like what I said above is right. When you've got the WSJ, A very conservative paper, and Repubs telling Boehner to make the deal because not making it is hurting the GOP, Then you've got some real problems.

If you want to play dumb and ignor the facts and try to pretend that this is going to hurt the Dems go right ahead but the facts speak for themselves.

This "Lets oppose EVERYTHING Obama does" tactic that Boehner and the GOP have been playing is going to bite them on the ass before it's over.

Or...the Senate could have passed the year long extension with the pipeline in it which would have added jobs to the economy for the short term. But no.

I like how the Dems are for short term fixes now while less than a year ago they were beating down the GOP for the short term government patches. It's the same exact situation but reversed. It's hilarious. When are you going to see that both sides don't give a **** about you or me?

 

[Marx]

WSJ TURNS ON HOUSE REPUBLICANS, CALLS PAYROLL TAX POSTURING A "FIASCO" THAT HELPS OBAMA
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html

When the WSJ turns on Republicans, you know they are in trouble. Oh well.

...President Obama's poll numbers are improving. I read an article on CNN earlier that basically called the GOP's posturing an election year christmas present for Obama.

 

[NHawk19]

This congress has convinced me that term limits are a good idea.

I completely agree 4 terms House 2 terms Senate would be my proposal. Problem is they're the ones that would have to write the legislation at this point.

 

[hippie_hunter]

...President Obama's poll numbers are improving. I read an article on CNN earlier that basically called the GOP's posturing an election year christmas present for Obama.

I think the improving economic numbers are helping Obama a lot more than the GOP.

 

[Raiden]

WSJ TURNS ON HOUSE REPUBLICANS, CALLS PAYROLL TAX POSTURING A "FIASCO" THAT HELPS OBAMA
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html

When the WSJ turns on Republicans, you know they are in trouble. Oh well.

Doesn't News Corp own WSJ? That'd be like Fox News lecturing the GOP on their payroll tax posturing.

 

[enterthemadness]

I think the improving economic numbers are helping Obama a lot more than the GOP.

I had no idea the economy was improving...thought it was just temp numbers going up for holidays. We'll see by the summer time...

 

[wiegeabo]

I figured the jump was due to finally pulling troops out of Iraq.

 

[chaseter]

Political spin on payroll tax holiday:

Obama is for giving you $40 more dollars a week for 2 months while the GOP want you to have $40 a week for 12 months. Nobody believes that spin. But, people in here think the Senate patching it for 2 months and the GOP are stopping us from having lowered taxes is what is going on? : /

 

[Superman]

Sarah Palin Questions Obama White House Holiday Card

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin (R) attacked the White House holiday card in an article on Fox News Radio.

The front of the card shows the Obamas' dog, Bo, sitting in a very Christmas-like setting, with a fireplace decorated with wreaths and red ribbons, and a table with a poinsettia plant and presents. "From our family to yours, may your holidays shine with the light of the season," reads the inside of the card, which is signed by the Obamas (including Bo).

Palin characterized the card as "odd":

"It's odd," she said, wondering why the president's Christmas card highlights his dog instead of traditions like 'family, faith and freedom.'"
"Even stranger than that was his first year in office when the Christmas ornaments included Chairman Mao," Palin said. "People had to ask that it be removed because it was offensive."
Palin was referring to when a right-wing blog posted a grainy photo, allegedly of an ornament on the White House Christmas tree in 2009 showing a reproduction of Andy Warhol's "Mao" portrait. Media Matters reported that the tree was decorated by community groups, not the White House.

Palin said a majority of Americans prefer "American foundational values illustrated and displayed on Christmas cards and on a Christmas tree." With regard to the card, she added, "It's just a different way of thinking coming out of the White House."

"I go on the offense like most Americans do and say 'No, we'll have Christ back in Christmas and hopefully it won't offend you,'" said Palin in a November 2010 Fox News appearance.

Palin fueled speculation on her future plans Monday after previously saying she would not run for the 2012 GOP nomination for president. "It's not too late for folks to jump in," she said on Fox Business Network. "Who knows what will happen in the future."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ouse-holiday-card_n_1163055.html?ref=politics


What the hell is wrong with this woman? Now his Christmas cards isn't good enough for her. It's stupid crap like this from morons like her and her buds at Fox is the very reason this country is in the mess it's in now.

 

[SV Fan]

What the hell is wrong with this woman? Now his Christmas cards isn't good enough for her. It's stupid crap like this from morons like her and her buds at Fox is the very reason this country is in the mess it's in now.

It's just a reason to ***** and complain about Obama. Funny thing is if you look at most president Xmas cards, none of them have Jesus on it

http://randyreport.blogspot.com/2011/12/sarah-palin-only-criticizes-president.html

There is a link to a few Xmas cards, my god George Bush and Ronald Reagan are evil. It amazes me how much the conservative media tries to use Xmas to pander to the christian right, but when you look at the origins of Xmas it is one of the most Pagan holidays around(hell in the late 1600s the puritan christians in some areas of the US would fine you for exchanging gifts)

 

[Superman]

Ron Paul Touted His Controversial Newsletters In 1995 C-SPAN Interview

Yesterday, presidential hopeful Ron Paul had an exchange with CNN's Gloria Borger (I believe the go-to descriptor we're using these days is "testy") in which the Texas Congressman, weary of answering questions about the newsletters filled with racist/homophobic/xenophobic goulash that were published in his name many years ago (content Paul has, at various times, denied being the author of and, at other times, denied having knowledge of) removed his microphone and withdrew from the interview. At the time of his walk-off, Paul had one thin sliver of a point to make -- Borger was essentially re-asking questions that had been asked by her CNN colleagues days earlier. So if we want to call it a protest against CNN having nothing new to ask about the matter and asking it anyway, that's fine, let's call it that.

But, hey, in the interest of having something new to say on the subject, here's Ed Morrissey with the latest video scoop from C-SPAN archive-diver extraordinaire Andrew Kaczynski -- a circa 1995 interview with a then-out-of-office Paul, in which he discusses how he's staying involved in the political world. (The salient part begins about a minute into the video.)

Paul said in the interview:

But along with that, I also put out a political type of business investment newsletter that sort of covered all these areas. And it covered a lot about what was going on in Washington, and financial events, and especially some of the monetary events. Since I had been especially interested in monetary policy, had been on the banking committee, and still very interested in, in that subject, that this newsletter dealt with it. This had to do with the value of the dollar, the pros and cons of the gold standard, and of course the disadvantages of all the high taxes and spending that our government seems to continue to do.
Morrissey says: "For a man who now says that he didn’t pay any attention to the newsletters published under his own name for years, he certainly seems to be pretty conversant with its contents in 1995." And the time period is an interesting one, if we recall what Dave Weigel and Julian Sanchez found out about the newsletters once they started investigating the matter:

The tenor of Paul's newsletters changed over the years. The ones published between Paul's return to private life after three full terms in congress (1985) and his Libertarian presidential bid (1988) notably lack inflammatory racial or anti-gay comments. The letters published between Paul's first run for president and his return to Congress in 1996 are another story—replete with claims that Martin Luther King "seduced underage girls and boys," that black protesters should gather "at a food stamp bureau or a crack house" rather than the Statue of Liberty, and that AIDS sufferers "enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick."
Eric Dondero, Paul's estranged former volunteer and personal aide, worked for Paul on and off between 1987 and 2004 (back when he was named "Eric Rittberg"), and since the Iraq war has become one of the congressman's most vociferous and notorious critics. By Dondero's account, Paul's inner circle learned between his congressional stints that "the wilder they got, the more bombastic they got with it, the more the checks came in. You think the newsletters were bad? The fundraising letters were just insane from that period."
So, at the time of the interview, the content of the newsletters was of the more infamous variety, rather than the tamer stuff of the mid to late 1980s. At the same time, the content that Paul seems most "conversant" about in the interview is the tamer stuff in which he's consistently and conspicuously taken an interest -- monetary policy, central banking, and the gold standard.

Not that you'd go on C-SPAN and say, "Hey, check out these racist newsletters I've been putting out," mind you!

Whether or not Paul means to tout these newsletters, and get more subscribers, is debatable. That he was aware of their existence at the time of their most vicious content is not. And yet the same air of mystery -- which is perhaps constructed, by design! -- over what Paul knew and when he knew it remains unpenetrated. If you are inclined to defend Ron Paul, you can say that he still seems to lack awareness of the newsletters' content. If you are inclined to disparage Paul, you point out that here he is, essentially copping to running a lucrative post-political career newsletter operation that traded in divisive venom.

The larger question that remains was best put into words by Steve Kornacki this morning:

That's the galling thing -- if Paul is the victim here, why isn't fingering the culpable party something that consumes him? I think we can reasonably speculate that most people, if faced with a similar controversy, would move heaven and earth to clear their good names. Paul has, in the recent past, said that he takes "moral responsibility" for these writings, but this seems to be the bare minimum of effort that one puts forth when one just wants to close the chapter. It's old news...I want to put it behind me...it's time to move on...these are the sorts of things that professional athletes say at the press conference they stage after they've been caught knocking their wives around.

Whether or not Paul is ultimately responsible for these writings, it remains a yawning vacuum into which responsibility must be poured. At the moment, Ron Paul is the only person who can fulfill this responsibility, and simply repudiating the contents of the newsletters and asking everyone to move on is clearly not cutting it.

A suggestion, then: let's allow that these newsletters are a product of journalism -- bad, irresponsible journalism -- that their publisher must now responsibly retract. To my mind, the best way to go about this is a three-step process. First, you explain, in chapter and verse detail, what the controversy involves -- you literally narrate what happened. Second, you explain, as best as you are able, how it came to pass that this bilge ended up in newsletters bearing your name. Third, you detail as fully as you can your step-by-step strategy for ensuring that it never happens again.

And perhaps the fourth part of the process is that you accept that even after a full explanation, you maybe don't restore your tarnished credibility. Nevertheless, Paul has treated this matter as an object that appears in his rearview mirror, rather than stopping to face it head-on. He ought to give it a try.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...QSZBeklNnztEQgxu3cKZB6K57jdiv&expires_in=5043

 

[Marx]

I completely agree 4 terms House 2 terms Senate would be my proposal. Problem is they're the ones that would have to write the legislation at this point.

...and there's no way they would ever legislate themselves out of a job. Congressional term limits would have to be something done by public vote.

I think the improving economic numbers are helping Obama a lot more than the GOP.

I'm still not sure how much the economy is really improving. Temporary jobs and seasonal jobs are not the answer to our problems.

Sarah Palin Questions Obama White House Holiday Card

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin (R) attacked the White House holiday card in an article on Fox News Radio.

The front of the card shows the Obamas' dog, Bo, sitting in a very Christmas-like setting, with a fireplace decorated with wreaths and red ribbons, and a table with a poinsettia plant and presents. "From our family to yours, may your holidays shine with the light of the season," reads the inside of the card, which is signed by the Obamas (including Bo).

Palin characterized the card as "odd":

"It's odd," she said, wondering why the president's Christmas card highlights his dog instead of traditions like 'family, faith and freedom.'"
"Even stranger than that was his first year in office when the Christmas ornaments included Chairman Mao," Palin said. "People had to ask that it be removed because it was offensive."
Palin was referring to when a right-wing blog posted a grainy photo, allegedly of an ornament on the White House Christmas tree in 2009 showing a reproduction of Andy Warhol's "Mao" portrait. Media Matters reported that the tree was decorated by community groups, not the White House.

Palin said a majority of Americans prefer "American foundational values illustrated and displayed on Christmas cards and on a Christmas tree." With regard to the card, she added, "It's just a different way of thinking coming out of the White House."

"I go on the offense like most Americans do and say 'No, we'll have Christ back in Christmas and hopefully it won't offend you,'" said Palin in a November 2010 Fox News appearance.

Palin fueled speculation on her future plans Monday after previously saying she would not run for the 2012 GOP nomination for president. "It's not too late for folks to jump in," she said on Fox Business Network. "Who knows what will happen in the future."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ouse-holiday-card_n_1163055.html?ref=politics


What the hell is wrong with this woman? Now his Christmas cards isn't good enough for her. It's stupid crap like this from morons like her and her buds at Fox is the very reason this country is in the mess it's in now.

...she must be desperate for attention again.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The irony is of course that for centuries most dogmatic Christians like her considered Christmas to be sacrilegious and pagan. Including the Pilgrims. But then those same Christians would have told her to keep quiet and be in submission.

 

[Matt]

Okay, I get family and faith, but how the hell is "freedom," a traditional Christmas theme? You are a strange one, Sarah...

 

[DACrowe]

BREAKING NEWS: BOEHNER ANNOUNCES "DEAL REACHED" FOR 2-MONTH EXTENSION
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/22/politics/congress-payroll-tax-cut/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So the House GOP caved? If they're smart, they'll just cut a deal on extending the payroll tax into 2013 their first week back after the New Year. The sooner they get off this issue that has highlighted their hypocrisy and made their cynical partisan obstructionist games fall apart, the sooner it will be not a central issue in an election year.

Very interesting.

 

[DACrowe]

BREAKING NEWS: BOEHNER ANNOUNCES "DEAL REACHED" FOR 2-MONTH EXTENSION
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/22/politics/congress-payroll-tax-cut/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So the House GOP caved? If they're smart, they'll just cut a deal on extending the payroll tax into 2013 their first week back after the New Year. The sooner they get off this issue that has highlighted their hypocrisy and made their cynical partisan obstructionist games fall apart, the sooner it will be not a central issue in an election year.

Very interesting.

 

[hippie_hunter]

George H.W. Bush is throwing his support behind Mitt Romney, calling him the best choice for the GOP.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If they're smart, they'll just cut a deal on extending the payroll tax into 2013 their first week back after the New Year.

Agreed. I have a feeling that's what they'll try and do.

 

[8wid]

The Christian right will never be happy until we live in the equivalent of the British Empire. People like that have been around since the War of 1812.