Discussion: UK Politics

[antsman41]

In respect for Princess Di;

Spoiler

 

[Sithborg]

Even as an American, this is still an end of an era. She has been a symbol of the not just the monarchy by the Country/Commonwealth. RIP.

I had the privilege of visiting Scotland in July and I loved it there. However, lot of people we talked to felt like Scotland should be on it's own country. (I apologize if this has been discussed here previously.) One person said, that they are just waiting for more younger people grow up and are able to vote so that Scotland could succeed.

I know a lot of people including politicians have a level of loyalty to the Queen. I'm wondering with her passing if things will begin to change and UK people please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think that loyalty will transfer to King Charles. (That just sounds weird to type.)

Everything I've read was that Liz was the only thing keeping the Monarchy remotely popular. Good odds it will be abolished within a generation.

 

[Sithborg]

That's the kind of thing that goes down reeeeal well with the genera public.

 

[Iceman]

Even as an American, this is still an end of an era. She has been a symbol of the not just the monarchy by the Country/Commonwealth. RIP.

I had the privilege of visiting Scotland in July and I loved it there. However, lot of people we talked to felt like Scotland should be on it's own country. (I apologize if this has been discussed here previously.) One person said, that they are just waiting for more younger people grow up and are able to vote so that Scotland could succeed.

I know a lot of people including politicians have a level of loyalty to the Queen. I'm wondering with her passing if things will begin to change and UK people please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think that loyalty will transfer to King Charles. (That just sounds weird to type.)

The attitude to Charles will be nowhere near what it has been for the Queen, but still much better than if he had ascended a couple of decades ago. The attitude to William and his kids will be be better though.

 

[squeekness]

Sad to hear thus. She was a grand lady.

 

[Kane52630]

In respect for Princess Di;

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Aurakles]

Personally, I feel no remorse over her death. Monarchy is a relic of a bygone age. The idea that in the 21st century we are still claiming certain people are born to rule is a disgrace. The royal family and the system of nobility is incompatible with democracy and human rights.
She was one of the richest people in the world, whose continued to grow richer by taking public money and even intervening in the making of laws to ensure her family could retain more of their wealth.
Millions of people in this county are struggling to survive, to heat thier homes and feed thier kids, whilst she had multiple palaces maintained at taxpayers expense.
She represents the evils of colonialism and systemic inequality.
The idea that I was one of her "subjects" made me sick. Monarchy is a degradation of all those under it, it is a revolting farce which I hope will soon come crumbling down.

I know a lot of people liked her and will be sad at her death, but I cannot muster anything but contempt for her.

 

[HBarnill]

This just feels so weird. People born after her coronation have grandkids. We're in a new era.

 

[Erzengel]

Everything I've read was that Liz was the only thing keeping the Monarchy remotely popular. Good odds it will be abolished within a generation.

As long as the monarchy brings in revenue from tourists, I don't see it ever going away. I think they'd even push to bring in William earlier if they got desperate.

The attitude to Charles will be nowhere near what it has been for the Queen, but still much better than if he had ascended a couple of decades ago. The attitude to William and his kids will be be better though.

I have a more feeling that the UK will become just England and Wales. We'll have 1 Ireland and Scotland.

 

[Iceman]

I have a more feeling that the UK will become just England and Wales. We'll have 1 Ireland and Scotland.

Could well be, and a shame for me if so.

 

[Aurakles]

As long as the monarchy brings in revenue from tourists, I don't see it ever going away. I think they'd even push to bring in William earlier if they got desperate.



I have a more feeling that the UK will become just England and Wales. We'll have 1 Ireland and Scotland.

The tourist money argument is just what is used to sell it. The French palaces get more visitors than the British, and they fed their royals to Madame Guillotine.
Getting rid of the monarch would mean getting rid of the House of Lords, and knighthoods and the whole apparatus of honours. Prime minister's rely on that system to buy the loyalty of MPs, party donors, newspaper editors and anyone else they need to butter up.
It's a gravy train for the well connected and vital political tool that no Prime Minister wants to do without.

 

[Aurakles]

I'm desperately hoping Scotland votes for independence this time. Otherwise I think I'll be moving elsewhere.
The UK is accelerating towards a very scare direction.
Truss brought anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-human rights, climate change denying minister's into her cabinet.

 

[squeekness]

I'm desperately hoping Scotland votes for independence this time. Otherwise I think I'll be moving elsewhere.
The UK is accelerating towards a very scare direction.
Truss brought anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-human rights, climate change denying minister's into her cabinet.

Sad that these things are happening in so many countries, yours and mine.

 

[Fosterson]

Personally, I feel no remorse over her death. Monarchy is a relic of a bygone age. The idea that in the 21st century we are still claiming certain people are born to rule is a disgrace.

Except she wasn't ruling. Not in the sense of enacting policies anyway.

I don't think there's anything wrong with constitutional monarchy where the monarch's role is purely ceremonial and apolitical.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The longest reigning Monarch is now Queen Margarthe of Denmark.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Also, I would not be entirely surprised if the Caribbean Islands of Antigua and Barbuda, Jamaica, Grenada, Saint Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines all become republics.

And even if Britain got rid of their monarchy, you still have Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco and (technically) the Vatican City and Andorra as monarchies remaining in Europe and Andorra is kind of a weird one, with one of the Co Princes of Andorra the President of France (who is elected) and the other one the Bishop of Urgell, appointed by the Pope. And the Pope is elected by the bishops in the Vatican.

 

[Aurakles]

Except she wasn't ruling. Not in the sense of enacting policies anyway.

I don't think there's anything wrong with constitutional monarchy where the monarch's role is purely ceremonial and apolitical.

It isn't though. First off there is the millions of pounds of public money they take every year, which could be used elsewhere. She had regular meetings with PM's to discuss government policy, something which party donors are willing to pay tens of thousands of pounds to do because they believe it gives them influence. It recently came out that she had loopholes added to laws in order to hide her wealth:
Revealed: Queen lobbied for change in law to hide her private wealth | The Queen | The Guardian

And as I mentioned earlier, it facilitates a system of corruption and cronyism.

On top of all that there's the fact that even symbolically, it is revolting to say "These people are better than you, they were simply born better. You should bow to them, and be in awe of them because they are your rulers." It's utterly nauseating.

This is an incredibly rich family being given money and influence because... their ancestors were good at medieval politics?

How about instead of a monarch we have a national pet? Or a mascot in a foam suit? They could go around opening things without costing millions or infringing on democracy.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Everything I've read was that Liz was the only thing keeping the Monarchy remotely popular. Good odds it will be abolished within a generation.

Which is crazy when you consider she shielded a pedophile and was known for her racism.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's the kind of thing that goes down reeeeal well with the genera public.

Yeah, I was watching the coverage on BBC, Sky, and ITV (the internet is a wonderful place). Forget the whitewashing, the utter "Britishness" of it all was just cringe and shows why the monarchy exist. To deflect from the true state of horror a lot of that country is in. People are going to be paying 4000 dollars for energy because their government is an embarrassment.

 

[Sithborg]

Except she wasn't ruling. Not in the sense of enacting policies anyway.

I don't think there's anything wrong with constitutional monarchy where the monarch's role is purely ceremonial and apolitical.

I mean, I think various people who aren't in the UK who are looking at the cost of changing their money and various other little things, and think "**** that".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Except she wasn't ruling. Not in the sense of enacting policies anyway.

I don't think there's anything wrong with constitutional monarchy where the monarch's role is purely ceremonial and apolitical.

That apolitical line is what's the problem. We have someone who is suppose to be the upmost example of what is right, civility, and they are giving their blessing to bigots and murderers. They did those things in her name. That's tacit approval.

A decent person wouldn't watch something like Windrush and ignore it to make that paper. It's antithetical to the portrayal of her as a servant of the people. That's not service, that's being served.

This is before we get into all the laws they've influenced to keep them from being reported on a the normal civilians they are.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Presented without comment

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When Paddington says everything, does he actually mean... everything?

 

[Fosterson]

That apolitical line is what's the problem. We have someone who is suppose to be the upmost example of what is right, civility, and they are giving their blessing to bigots and murderers. They did those things in her name. That's tacit approval.

Sure, but there are obvious reasons why, in the 21st (or even 20th) Century it just wouldn't be acceptable for an unelected monarch to overrule elected prime ministers. So she didn't exactly have much choice on, for example, whether or not to give Tony Blair authority to invade Iraq, even if she technically could have refused him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sure, but there are obvious reasons why, in the 21st (or even 20th) Century it just wouldn't be acceptable for an unelected monarch to overrule elected prime ministers. So she didn't exactly have much choice on, for example, whether or not to give Tony Blair authority to invade Iraq, even if she technically could have refused him.

I'm not talking about overthrowing anything. I'm talking about speaking out against atrocities and standing up for what is right.