Disney in talks to buy Fox: X-Men Homecoming? - Part 4

[TheVileOne]

Not really. We would hear tons about a Daredevil reboot at Fox before rights reverted to Marvel Studios.

In fact, there was a lot of hubbub over Joe Carnahan doing a 1970s gritty crime drama version of Daredevil, where he even dropped his pitch video for project online. Right before Marvel got the rights back.

Even after Fantastic Four 2, there was still lots of talk about the Silver Surfer movie getting made and how it would feature "genuine" Galactus. All that talk eventually died.

All this talk doesn't mean the films are getting made.

Business as usual also in this case means that Fox has to continue operating business as usual. That means they have to have the appearance that they are running as they normally are WITHOUT the notion that the studio is about to be acquired by Disney because for all intents and purposes, Disney still does not own them yet and they are awaiting federal approval.

 

[warhorse78]

Personally, in my opinion, I don't know if I am thrilled with this. Disney has been having a bad habit of taking long established characters and franchises (Star Wars) and then using them to push their Social Justice Warrior agenda. Right now, I'll try not to step on any toes in here, but I find the fact that Marvel is taking all of their comic book characters that were originally white males, and rebooting them as either a woman or a minority, and often this is done at the expense of the original character (Riri is now way smarter than Tony, Steve has turned into a villain, the new female Thor is more powerful than the original Thor, I'm sure you get my drift) and the thing is, it's alienating long time fans, and the proof is in the pudding by just looking at the dismal comic book sales being engineered by social justice writers.

I'm all for diversity, but please, do it the natural way by creating a character that is specifically diverse to begin with, like T'Challa, Wonder Woman, Hit Girl, etc. In my opinion, when they have to use an already established name to spread diversity like a female Iron-Man or Black Spider-Man, that means they never had faith in the actual person selling the character, but relying purely on brand recognition, and in turn, is insulting the group of people they were aiming at to begin with.

Plus, I think Disney is getting too big. What's next, are they going to buy out Hulu, ATT and LG so you have to buy their products to watch your favorite superhero?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Personally, in my opinion, I don't know if I am thrilled with this. Disney has been having a bad habit of taking long established characters and franchises (Star Wars) and then using them to push their Social Justice Warrior agenda. Right now, I'll try not to step on any toes in here, but I find the fact that Marvel is taking all of their comic book characters that were originally white males, and rebooting them as either a woman or a minority, and often this is done at the expense of the original character (Riri is now way smarter than Tony, Steve has turned into a villain, the new female Thor is more powerful than the original Thor, I'm sure you get my drift) and the thing is, it's alienating long time fans, and the proof is in the pudding by just looking at the dismal comic book sales being engineered by social justice writers.

I'm all for diversity, but please, do it the natural way by creating a character that is specifically diverse to begin with, like T'Challa, Wonder Woman, Hit Girl, etc. In my opinion, when they have to use an already established name to spread diversity like a female Iron-Man or Black Spider-Man, that means they never had faith in the actual person selling the character, but relying purely on brand recognition, and in turn, is insulting the group of people they were aiming at to begin with.

Plus, I think Disney is getting too big. What's next, are they going to buy out Hulu, ATT and LG so you have to buy their products to watch your favorite superhero?

But, they already own the X-Men and FF in the comics. How would the FOX acquisition change anything there? Except now the FF can actually appear in comics again (and stop the insane protest of denying fans the FF because they don't have the movie rights).

The MCU also has done a great job mirroring the spirits of the source material, which I again, see no reason to think FF or X-Men would be any different. On to your other point, Hulu would actually be part of this sale. FOX has a % of Hulu, as does Disney already. I get the skepticism on Disney getting purchase happy, believe me I do. But, FOX is in a seller mode. Someone is buying them, and this is honestly a risk whether it is Disney or Comcast buying the FOX assets.

 

[Zarex]

edit.

 

[Zarex]

Personally, in my opinion, I don't know if I am thrilled with this. Disney has been having a bad habit of taking long established characters and franchises (Star Wars) and then using them to push their Social Justice Warrior agenda. Right now, I'll try not to step on any toes in here, but I find the fact that Marvel is taking all of their comic book characters that were originally white males, and rebooting them as either a woman or a minority, and often this is done at the expense of the original character (Riri is now way smarter than Tony, Steve has turned into a villain, the new female Thor is more powerful than the original Thor, I'm sure you get my drift) and the thing is, it's alienating long time fans, and the proof is in the pudding by just looking at the dismal comic book sales being engineered by social justice writers.

Your precious white males are still there. In fact, they just made a big comeback! So you can still keep reading the same characters involved in the same stories over and over again until the heat death of the universe.

The fact is that while diversity doesn't sell particularly well in the comics, which are largely bought by adult white males of a certain mindset, it sells awfully well on the big screen. As we've seen. Comics are being sold to generate IP and you deciding to limit your monthly comic purchases due on to all the social justice warriors (Like MLK! and Ghandi!) messing with your good time doesn't matter one bit to Disney and Time Warner.

 

[Mad Ones]

The idea that Disney would use the X-men to push a "SJW agenda" is hilarious.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Your precious white males are still there. In fact, they just made a big comeback! So you can still keep reading the same characters involved in the same stories over and over again until the heat death of the universe.

The fact is that while diversity doesn't sell particularly well in the comics, which are largely bought by adult white males of a certain mindset, it sells awfully well on the big screen. As we've seen. Comics are being sold to generate IP and you deciding to limit your monthly comic purchases due on to all the social justice warriors (Like MLK! and Ghandi!) messing with your good time doesn't matter one bit to Disney and Time Warner.

At this point, many of these characters have existed for 60+ years, so passing them down to new people for a younger generation is not a bad thing. Granted, I am not sure if every hero needs to be a legacy and Marvel does it with half measure (we have multiple Spideys, Caps, etc all at once). I think that is my bigger problem. They make Bucky or Falcon Cap, and then bring Steve back within a few years. These changes have no lasting impact, and that has what alienates me from newer stories: No lasting impact and stories cater to large events which constantly means the books keep being redefined. There is no clear vision. Diversity is not a problem at all. Adding more diversity to comics is perfectly valid. I just wish they didn't waste panels and at least stuck with a vision for a book for longer than the span between grand scale events.

 

[Big Bang]

So you can still keep reading the same characters involved in the same stories over and over again until the heat death of the universe.

This issue you are alluding to doesn't seem to be a problem for DC. In fact, they've been annihilating Marvel in sales.

The fact is that while diversity doesn't sell particularly well in the comics

or toys or merchandise. As can easily be seen as they rot on store shelves. The films have done fine because they were based on truly diverse characters that had been embraced by the larger comics audience decades ago.

Comics are being sold to generate IP

warhorse78's point is valid. That has been done organically in cases such as Black Panther, Wonder Woman, etc. So such an extent that those diverse characters were embraced by the very community you are disparaging. The same can't be said on the flip side.

Honest question though. If this form of "diversity" is so great, why didn't the audience Marvel was trying to market them to, show up to buy them?

 

[Zarex]

At this point, many of these characters have existed for 60+ years, so passing them down to new people for a younger generation is not a bad thing. Granted, I am not sure if every hero needs to be a legacy and Marvel does it with half measure (we have multiple Spideys, Caps, etc all at once). I think that is my bigger problem. They make Bucky or Falcon Cap, and then bring Steve back within a few years. These changes have no lasting impact, and that has what alienates me from newer stories: No lasting impact and stories cater to large events which constantly means the books keep being redefined. There is no clear vision. Diversity is not a problem at all. Adding more diversity to comics is perfectly valid. I just wish they didn't waste panels and at least stuck with a vision for a book for longer than the span between grand scale events.

The problem with the comics is that as soon as sales start dropping the big two publishers bring back all the old favorites rather than getting folks invested in the new ones. That's something I hope the MCU avoids as we move into phase 4 and beyond.

Have folks die - and make it stick! - retire or age out of the superhero biz. Showcase the characters putting on the armor, picking up the shield and hoisting the hammer after the Big Three are no longer available. Legacy characters like Barry Allen, Johnny Storm and Hal Jordan have worked out pretty well and we've got two starring in this summer's "Ant Man & the Wasp" Hopefully the MCU will avoid the mistakes of the print source material.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The problem with the comics is that as soon as sales start dropping the big two publishers bring back all the old favorites rather than getting folks invested in the new ones. That's something I hope the MCU avoids as we move into phase 4 and beyond.

Have folks die - and make it stick! - retire or age out of the superhero biz. Showcase the characters putting on the armor, picking up the shield and hoisting the hammer after the Big Three are no longer available. Legacy characters like Barry Allen, Johnny Storm and Hal Jordan have worked out pretty well and we've got two starring in this summer's "Ant Man & the Wasp" Hopefully the MCU will avoid the mistakes of the print source material.

I tend to like the option of death less and prefer retirement. That way you can bring them back in a mentor role or something like that, and the character still evolves. But I agree, if they die/retire, let it stick! It frustrates me.

I don't see the MCU doing that, I see them just using different heroes (like replacing Iron Man with Spider-Man, Cap with Black Panther, etc). I don't know if they will legacy any of the main MCU heroes (I actually would prefer the don't for everyone and just widen the base of characters...some exceptions like a new Cap or Miles Spidey, yeah sure do those eventually). I think all signs point to the MCU doing this and doing it well.

 

[Iceman]

From Bloomberg:

Fox Expects to Launch Recommended Offer for Sky by End of June
By*Melodie Warner*and*Anousha Sakoui
(Bloomberg) --*21st Century Fox*expects to announce leadership of the new Fox in months, said CFO John Nallen*at the Deutsche Bank 2018 Media, Telecom & Business Services Conference.*
The new Fox will emphasize live product
Says no indication NFL ratings decline is permanent
Says Argentine football product growing more than expected
Will look at UFC rights
Says every co. will offer a direct-to-consumer product
Don’t expect direct-to-consumer products to significantly affect rev.

 

[Kuwolski]

Not to get off topic here, but I'm happy that Marvel seem seem to be getting back to basics now. CB Cebulski getting announced as EIC has definitely brought me back to the table. Every title that they've announced coming soon has made me more excited then I've been in a LOOONG time. Frankly the place seems re-energized and positive for the first time in ages. There is even speculation thta Hickman may return based on the new changes.

 

[random_havoc]

Your precious white males are still there. In fact, they just made a big comeback! So you can still keep reading the same characters involved in the same stories over and over again until the heat death of the universe.

Really? You're going to argue that unless the most beloved characters in comics that have been around for over 50 years get swapped out for women and other ethnicities it will just be the same stories over and over again? Do you even like the characters?

The fact is that while diversity doesn't sell particularly well in the comics, which are largely bought by adult white males of a certain mindset, it sells awfully well on the big screen. As we've seen. Comics are being sold to generate IP and you deciding to limit your monthly comic purchases due on to all the social justice warriors (Like MLK! and Ghandi!) messing with your good time doesn't matter one bit to Disney and Time Warner.

It's not just the diversity, it's hammering people over the head with it. And does it sell awfully well on the big screen? Sure, in one way The Last Jedi did well at the box office, but on the other hand it had the biggest drop-off in in film history for sales between first and second weekend, which means a lot of people saw it and then there was a record amount of people that bailed on it. And this in a movie where there isn't one male character that isn't either an idiot or a failure, and with one exception the entire force of the villains were white men (if we're going to "diversify" the heroes, why not the villains too? Equal representation right?).
And the agenda wouldn't be so painfully obvious if it weren't for the creators of the film literally wearing shirts that say "ask me about my feminist agenda" and "the force is female", the latter of which is actually even as just a fan in general as it shows that agenda comes before mythos (the force has no gender, which means the shirts do nothing more than end up being anti-male)

 

[Zarex]

This issue you are alluding to doesn't seem to be a problem for DC. In fact, they've been annihilating Marvel in sales.

How is a 2.25% lead in unit share an annihilation? Especially when Marvel is bringing in more money?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/02/09/dc-comics-marvel-money-jan-18-share/

or toys or merchandise. As can easily be seen as they rot on store shelves. The films have done fine because they were based on truly diverse characters that had been embraced by the larger comics audience decades ago.

Do you have #s to back this up? Or is this anecdotal evidence based on seeing a handful of Lady Thor action figures dangling from a Wal Mart display peg?

Honest question though. If this form of "diversity" is so great, why didn't the audience Marvel was trying to market them to, show up to buy them?

I'm sure Marvel was hoping that the old time comic readers would be open to new diverse characters in new adventures. Which was probably a tad too optimistic. The publisher needs to bring in new buyers outside of their old, dying base and they are making effort to that effect with digital sales, scholastic book fares, and their collaboration with Archie to get into supermarkets and news stands.

 

[random_havoc]

I guess my point being, if they want to have more diversity in films, go for it, but don't be an a-hole about it and don't do it by wiping out or taking a dump on the characters that people already love (eg. all the main Avengers that weren't in comics the last while; and in SW, Luke Skywalker)

 

[random_havoc]

Do you have #s to back this up? Or is this anecdotal evidence based on seeing a handful of Lady Thor action figures dangling from a Wal Mart display peg?

This is the result of The Last Jedi, which again made every male character (that wasn't already a villain, which were already almost all white males) until a failure or an idiot in one way or another.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/hasbro-reports-fourth-quarter-earnings-2017.html

Title: Hasbro revenue slumps on soft sales of 'Star Wars' toys

 

[Spider-Fan]

I guess my point being, if they want to have more diversity in films, go for it, but don't be an a-hole about it and don't do it by wiping out or taking a dump on the characters that people already love (eg. all the main Avengers that weren't in comics the last while; and in SW, Luke Skywalker)

Retiring a beloved character and giving us a new one is not crapping on a character. Now, Marvel has not always handled this transition well, yes. But, just having a beloved character retire or die heroically to introduce a new one isn't inherently crapping on anything. This is not a Star Wars thread, so I am not really going into that, but do you have some comics examples?

I will be honest, I am far less familiar with the newer story lines because I don't like how wasteful comics are now with panels, the cost, nor the fact books lack consistency due to large events constantly reinventing the status quo and they can never catch up before the next big one comes.

 

[Zarex]

Really? You're going to argue that unless the most beloved characters in comics that have been around for over 50 years get swapped out for women and other ethnicities it will just be the same stories over and over again? Do you even like the characters?

Love the characters. Been reading them for over 40 years. But I also love the idea that girls "and other ethnicities" will be able to enjoy them and relate to them in the same way that I did with Mr. Parker back in the day. Bringing in new characters is a good thing, even if it means old favorites take a short break.

It's not just the diversity, it's hammering people over the head with it. And does it sell awfully well on the big screen? Sure, in one way The Last Jedi did well at the box office, but on the other hand it had the biggest drop-off in in film history for sales between first and second weekend, which means a lot of people saw it and then there was a record amount of people that bailed on it. And this in a movie where there isn't one male character that isn't either an idiot or a failure, and with one exception the entire force of the villains were white men (if we're going to "diversify" the heroes, why not the villains too? Equal representation right?).
And the agenda wouldn't be so painfully obvious if it weren't for the creators of the film literally wearing shirts that say "ask me about my feminist agenda" and "the force is female", the latter of which is actually even as just a fan in general as it shows that agenda comes before mythos (the force has no gender, which means the shirts do nothing more than end up being anti-male)

Who the hell is hammering who over the head with anything? If you find the messages of diversity, equal opportunity and representation to be so offensive find something else to read and watch. There's a lot of stuff out there that appeals to one with your sensibilities.

I read the Mockingbird comic with that horrifying message that would have had me clutching at my pearls if I weren't such a manly man. The book was fantastic, but didn't stand a chance with the current comic buying crowd. The sexist garbage humans that attacked Ms. Cain over a cover are pathetic.

 

[Marvel united]

The basis of X-Men is centered around social issues and how their struggle mirrors real-world minorites. It wouldn't be "forced" at all if the movie was political considering the X-Men have always been political.

 

[DrCosmic]

the idea that disney would use the x-men to push a "sjw agenda" is hilarious.

right!?

 

[Kuwolski]

Love the characters. Been reading them for over 40 years. But I also love the idea that girls "and other ethnicities" will be able to enjoy them and relate to them in the same way that I did with Mr. Parker back in the day. Bringing in new characters is a good thing, even if it means old favorites take a short break.

Well said. I agree with you in spirit, I just wish the execution (aside from Aaron great writing) was handled much better. It ultimately didn't payoff in many cases and wasn't worth the time and investment. Sad that it couldn't get off the ground, but often justified it didn't.

Another problem was the attitude that some displayed to fans. Alonso allowed antagonism towards the fans to flourish under his reign. If you work for Marvel you should rise above that imo. Another reason I'm happy CB is running the show now.

 

[random_havoc]

Retiring a beloved character and giving us a new one is not crapping on a character. Now, Marvel has not always handled this transition well, yes. But, just having a beloved character retire or die heroically to introduce a new one isn't inherently crapping on anything. This is not a Star Wars thread, so I am not really going into that, but do you have some comics examples?

I said don't do it by wiping out or crapping on a character. The wiping out part is eg killing off the Hulk and replacing him with hip young asian Hulk (and that was certainly not a heroic death to give Banner, quite the opposite). Crapping on was Thor, who was completely humiliated and even lost his own name. Crapping on was indeed also Luke Skywalker, who was a giant loser who didn't even leave his little island now for this new trilogy or get in one single fight.

I will be honest, I am far less familiar with the newer story lines because I don't like how wasteful comics are now with panels, the cost, nor the fact books lack consistency due to large events constantly reinventing the status quo and they can never catch up before the next big one comes.

I agree with you on this. Them restarting numbering at 1's again makes me sick. They're deserving their low sales at this point.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I said don't do it by wiping out or crapping on a character. The wiping out part is eg killing off the Hulk and replacing him with hip young asian Hulk (and that was certainly not a heroic death to give Banner, quite the opposite). Crapping on was Thor, who was completely humiliated and even lost his own name. Crapping on was indeed also Luke Skywalker, who was a giant loser who didn't even leave his little island now for this new trilogy or get in one single fight.

I honestly have not read these stories, so I don't have much room to comment. But, for example, USM when Peter died and Miles took over, it was tasteful. I also was enjoying when Bucky took on the Cap mantle, before he was axed for Fear Itself (right around when I quit monthly comics).

I am leaving TLJ alone. Debated that endlessly, and I even think I have debated that one with you before, LOL! Had endless arguments on that film, so they all kind of mesh together.

 

[random_havoc]

Who the hell is hammering who over the head with anything? If you find the messages of diversity, equal opportunity and representation to be so offensive find something else to read and watch. There's a lot of stuff out there that appeals to one with your sensibilities.

You're using the straw man fallacy, which is a cheap tactic. I already said I'm fine with diversity, just don't do it like an a-hole. Doing it like an a-hole is not just replacing a main Avenger character, but basically all of them at the same time, leaving me with almost none of the ones that I love for a while there. Doing it like an a-hole is making a Star Wars movie where all the men are idiots, failures, or villains (name one that isn't).
As for finding something else to read or watch, I have, as have many other people. Hence a big part of the reason for the Marvel sales drop (as even Joe Quesada said in a long series of Tweets).

I read the Mockingbird comic with that horrifying message that would have had me clutching at my pearls if I weren't such a manly man. The book was fantastic, but didn't stand a chance with the current comic buying crowd. The sexist garbage humans that attacked Ms. Cain over a cover are pathetic.

I'm not familiar with that comic, never cared for Mockingbird.

 

[random_havoc]

The idea that Disney would use the X-men to push a "SJW agenda" is hilarious.

Did you watch The Last Jedi? Have you seen the pics of both the director and exec overseeing the Star Wars movies literally wherein shirts that talk about asking them about their agenda?
This isn't even debatable they've literally said it themselves.