Doctor Who - Not a Hugging Type of Thread

[wobbly]

I don't dislike Clara. I dislike the way Moffat has tried too hard to make her some super-important companion. Not every companion has to be a Sarah Jane, or Rose or Amy, a Doctor-defining companion. It is okay to be a Donna, which is what Clara should have been.

Instead, Moffat has, in the span of a dozen episodes, made Clara into, unarguably, the Doctor's most important companion of all time, who has shaped every aspect of the Doctor's personality and history from childhood on....even going as far as to pick the TARDIS for him. And she has done nothing to earn this place in the lore. 5 episodes in and she is inserted into the Doctor's timeline at every point. 7 episodes in and she has saved Gallifrey. 12 episodes in and she gave child Doctor his entire outlook on life. Its just too much, IMO.

I am inclined to agree. I like Clara as a character but her being the inspiration for his 'promise' (almost word for word as it turned out) was pushing it.

 

[Deserana]

That's true, but Martha got slated partly for being a "minor" companion (and partly for some more dubious reasons). There is a balance between going big and going too small.

I remember these comments! They hold zero weight seeing as she, pretty much single handedly, saves the world in the end.

I also remember The Sun (UK paper) said negative reaction to Martha meant she was going to be "lost" at the end of S3 and The Doctor was going to be looking for her in the series after with a new companion. Oh the media

 

[Lord Valumart]

It didn't help Martha that she was basically forced as being Not Rose for the first 4 episodes.

 

[Mr_336]

It didn't help Martha that she was basically forced as being Not Rose for the first 4 episodes.

Plus RTD baiting 10/Rose shippers into hating her with a firey passion

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

just a little something I ran across on the internet...

http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/editorial/doctor-who-peter-capaldi-measure-new-doctor/117845

 

[chamber-music]

He seems to have a thing for coffee; he to mentions it in every episode, more or less.

He is the Cookie Monster of Coffee. The Coffee Monster t:

 

[The Squirrel]

This episode was a bit much with inserting (again) Clara into the Doctor's timeline.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I really didn't care for 'Listen'. In fact, I think I really hated it. Which is a VERY first in Who history.

It had fantastic direction, and great performances. But the writing SERIOUSLY suffered from a case of the Moffat.

The BIGGEST issue with this episode was that the whole point of it was that scene at the end with Clara and the Young Doctor on Galifrey. We don't find out until the end, but that scene is driving the entire episode.

And that scene........ Apparently, Donna Noble is NOT the most important woman in the whole universe. Clara, since she not only is she now responsible for making him who he is, why he travels with Companions, and why he chose "Sexy", but she is single-handedly responsible for every victory he has ever had (as shown in The Name of the Doctor).

So yeah, Donna Noble. Stephen Moffat says **** you and shove it.

#SouffleGirl

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[regwec]

Reminds me of Spike from Buffy.

 

[Mr_336]

I really didn't care for 'Listen'. In fact, I think I really hated it. Which is a VERY first in Who history.

It had fantastic direction, and great performances. But the writing SERIOUSLY suffered from a case of the Moffat.

The BIGGEST issue with this episode was that the whole point of it was that scene at the end with Clara and the Young Doctor on Galifrey. We don't find out until the end, but that scene is driving the entire episode.

And that scene........ Apparently, Donna Noble is NOT the most important woman in the whole universe. Clara, since she not only is she now responsible for making him who he is, why he travels with Companions, and why he chose "Sexy", but she is single-handedly responsible for every victory he has ever had (as shown in The Name of the Doctor).

So yeah, Donna Noble. Stephen Moffat says **** you and shove it.

#SouffleGirl

That makes two of us (and I didn't like Donna)

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I really didn't care for 'Listen'. In fact, I think I really hated it. Which is a VERY first in Who history.

It had fantastic direction, and great performances. But the writing SERIOUSLY suffered from a case of the Moffat.

The BIGGEST issue with this episode was that the whole point of it was that scene at the end with Clara and the Young Doctor on Galifrey. We don't find out until the end, but that scene is driving the entire episode.

And that scene........ Apparently, Donna Noble is NOT the most important woman in the whole universe. Clara, since she not only is she now responsible for making him who he is, why he travels with Companions, and why he chose "Sexy", but she is single-handedly responsible for every victory he has ever had (as shown in The Name of the Doctor).

So yeah, Donna Noble. Stephen Moffat says **** you and shove it.

#SouffleGirl

The End of Time shows it's not Donna that was bound to Ten, but Wilf. Donna was only needed to insure Wilf "killed" the Tenth Doctor.

Anyway, it's stupid to keep giving the Doctor life altering companions, Donna, Rose, Clara and Amy should all be lumped together really, it's all just been escalating (Bad Wolf/I wuv u Wose>Donna IS the Doctor> Amy leads Eleven to his death, and extra regens> Clara helps every Doctor).

Only one primary companion (since 2005) hasn't been catastrophically important or had a huge destiny, and that's Martha. Shame they wasted her as just "not muh Rose".

 

[regwec]

Martha was the hottest companion since Leela, though.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[Mr_336]

Martha was the hottest companion since Leela, though.

This, we can both agree on!

 

[haephestus]

Eh. I wasn't a fan of Listen and I haven't been too enthused about any of the episodes to date. Although, was this the first episode without any mention of "Paradise"? I wonder if anything could be read into that given that it has otherwise featured in every other episode?

I don't mind the characterisation of the new Doctor and it's nice to see Clara get some characterisation at long last, but their relationship isn't quite working for me.

I'm probably being far too picky, but I don't like the way the Doctor makes negative comments about Clara's physical appearance in almost every appearance. Whether she's too fat, too skinny, too old or he doesn't like her hair, make-up or clothes, there seems to be at least one negative comment in every episode. I understand that they're deliberately establishing a "no flirting" relationship with Clara, but I think there could be cutting/biting/derogatory comments from the Doctor that don't have anything to do with Clara's physical appearance (especially when she's obviously stunning). I appreciate that Clara has been doing the same, by commenting on how thin, grey and old the Doctor is, but since the Doctor is the "Doctor" and Clara is just a "human" there appears to be a power imbalance which is in favour of the Doctor which gives his constant negative comments more weight.

I'm also finding the "rom com" dating life of Clara and Danny to be incredibly forced and false. I'm not sure the actors share any chemistry and the awkward banter and misunderstandings between the characters because they're both just oh so smitten with one another seems like it belongs in a bad episode of Grey's Anatomy instead of Doctor Who. I'm also pretty disturbed by the revelation that Clara is now apparently responsible for pushing Rupert/Danny into become a soldier which has clearly had a major negative impact on his mental state. Not to mention the revelation that Clara was also purportedly the inspiration for the Doctor's entire history since he was a young boy (even moreso than when she inserted herself into the Doctor's entire timeline).

It will be interesting to see how the show develops. I was a huge fan of Moffat when he was a regular episodic writer, but his style and interests just aren't working for me as a showrunner.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Watched Listen for a second time and loved it even more. This episode is definitely going to rank highly among my favorite episodes of Who maybe ever.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Which New Who are You?
http://www.zimbio.com/quiz/Dj5ue6L5_mv/New+Doctor+Character

Also S8 cover art

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Doctor-Series-8/20279

It's ok but I wish Clara was on there. And not a fan of the font.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

WIDE FACE!!!

I love how they kept going back at each other with insults.

Grey-haired stick.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Well then...

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

Just to clear things up a bit. Pre-End of Time War Gallifrey was time-locked, Post-Time War Gallifrey was in a pocket universe. However, the effect should still be the same in either of the scenario, that Gallifrey should be physically inaccessible.


I’ve rewatched the episode and this statement was repeated a couple of times: that the TARDIS is slaved to Clara’s timeline. I think that right there is the solution to the Gallifrey problem: Clara’s timeline. Thanks to most of the posters here because I almost forgot that Clara, or at least one of her selves, was able to travel to a time-locked Gallifrey when she enters The Doctor’s time scar. I don’t know why I didn’t complain when that happened, probably because there wasn’t too much emphasis at Gallifrey being inaccessible during that time. So the answer is once again, God (aka Moffat)-given Clara’s specialness to the Doctor’s life.


Though, a question still remains by that solution alone: if it’s that easy to gain access to a lost Gallifrey, why won’t the Daleks kidnap a Time Lord, kill him and go inside that Time Lord’s time scar? There many possible solutions to that question, answers in which I am satisfied, and they are the following:


1. The Daleks don’t know that they can travel through a Time Lord’s time scar; but if they do…
2. A Time Lord’s tomb can be rarely found. The G.I. was able to find The Doctor’s because he is too popular to most of the Time Lord’s enemies. And if the G.I. do share the information about The Doctor’s tomb to the Daleks, the Daleks don’t have the capability to time travel to an alternate timeline.
3. But if the Daleks do find a Time Lord’s tomb besides the Doctor’s, it probably don’t have a time scar the same as the Doctor’s because a regular, non-renegade Time Lord unlike the Doctor probably don’t travel as much like him and they probably even don’t time travel at all.


Plus with the fact that the Daleks don’t even knew Clara has that ability to travel inside the Doctor’s timeline and the TARDIS safety was turned off during this trip. I’m pretty satisfied with this solution unless Moffat and other future showrunners five years, ten years into the future introduced a plot point into the show’s mythology that would contradict these.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 3 characters.

 

[AnneFan]

Also S8 cover art

It's ok but I wish Clara was on there. And not a fan of the font.

I suspect that's a placeholder for the real one. I hope so, anyway.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I suspect that's a placeholder for the real one. I hope so, anyway.

I dont know...tvshowsondvd said it was the finalized box art and they distinguish through the two.

 

[Steelsheen]

It was E.T's creepy peeping tom brother

I liked the first half the episode but found the other half 'meh'

People have described Capaldi's Doctor as being something of a scientist testing his theories and I think this episode certainly lived up to that description.

i do LOVE that we now see the reason why the Doctor is called The Doctor. he aint a quack (as it sometimes came across since Nine), but the man has smarts. and Capaldi makes that very convincing (maybe because in reality he's a pretty sharp cookie himself)

Same for me I used to love Moffat. S5 is still probably my favourite Series, it would be S6 but the finale was a disaster and where I started noticing things creeping into his work. But I've started doing exactly what you said. I've got no interest really in whatever this Missy arc is as I'm 95% sure we wont get a satisfying ending to it. It will be like "oh it's this. But IS IT REALLYYYY THIS?"

But after 6 I'm just convinced he is making it up. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's great (I thought Asylum was outstanding) but sometimes it's just bad. For example (I'll try and find the source when I'm home) I remember at the end of S5 people were complaining about unanswered questions and Moffat said it was a 2 series arc. Clearly not the case. It may have lasted 2 series but nothing was answered. I remember 6B being promoted as the answers half of the series. What Bulls**t that was.

yeah thats part of the whole hook of that season. it was still a pretty enjoyable season though, but there was a part of me that started to wonder if he made such a fun convoluted plot he ran out of time and had to make quickie endings. but now its a trend so...

I don't dislike Clara. I dislike the way Moffat has tried too hard to make her some super-important companion. Not every companion has to be a Sarah Jane, or Rose or Amy, a Doctor-defining companion. It is okay to be a Donna, which is what Clara should have been.

Instead, Moffat has, in the span of a dozen episodes, made Clara into, unarguably, the Doctor's most important companion of all time, who has shaped every aspect of the Doctor's personality and history from childhood on....even going as far as to pick the TARDIS for him. And she has done nothing to earn this place in the lore. 5 episodes in and she is inserted into the Doctor's timeline at every point. 7 episodes in and she has saved Gallifrey. 12 episodes in and she gave child Doctor his entire outlook on life. Its just too much, IMO.

That's true, but Martha got slated partly for being a "minor" companion (and partly for some more dubious reasons). There is a balance between going big and going too small.

yes exactly what Reg said, the showrunners are trying to find ways to make the companions be as involved and as significant to the story, because looking back (even to just NuWHo) the most "boring" of companions was Martha. she only got interesting when her character was heavily involved in the plot at the end. its a pattern they noticed on Rose and then on Donna, so by the time the Ponds came around its become the formula.

so when Clara was "born" instead of a companion being a ride-along, she was baked into the plot at almost every turn. thats actually what i love about that character, but i understand how some fans doesnt like how its handled.

I have not read the scripts but I would have thought that was maybe all a bit too obvious? Basically letting us know Clara's out with Danny (a presumably happy one) well ahead of time?

I dunno...It was obvious they wanted us to think Orson was related to her, but I'd think it a bit odd in this day when people have photos & videos of themselves all over the shop, that in hundred years time our descendants wouldn't be all over them looking at their great or great/great parents as the case may be, and wouldn't notice a dead ringer if they met one.

I was thinking maybe her link to Orson was simply the toy soldier, and his mention of stories that his family had a history with time travel was referring to Danny (safe to assume he will be travelling with them soon enough) but of course when Orson handed the solider to her it he suggested he did in fact recognise her after all ('family heirloom' and all that).

Can't say I object to giving her a happy send off when the time comes, but would rather not have it telegraphed.

it was a response to OriginalMiles but yeah its confirmations and such, because people can see it as an angle that Clara and Danny dated BUT they didnt make it together, however their family tree would join much later down the line (say at Clara's grandchildren level). theres also buzz that something's gonna happen to Clara which fuels the speculations about Jenna leaving the show. so far set reports say that they saw [BLACKOUT] the Doctor very upset and crying Clara's name over and over. [/BLACKOUT] also that [BLACKOUT]Jenna is now rarely seen on locations whereas she used to be with Capaldi all the time, reinforcing the whole something-happened-to-Clara rumormill[/BLACKOUT]

I really didn't care for 'Listen'. In fact, I think I really hated it. Which is a VERY first in Who history.

It had fantastic direction, and great performances. But the writing SERIOUSLY suffered from a case of the Moffat.

The BIGGEST issue with this episode was that the whole point of it was that scene at the end with Clara and the Young Doctor on Galifrey. We don't find out until the end, but that scene is driving the entire episode.

And that scene........ Apparently, Donna Noble is NOT the most important woman in the whole universe. Clara, since she not only is she now responsible for making him who he is, why he travels with Companions, and why he chose "Sexy", but she is single-handedly responsible for every victory he has ever had (as shown in The Name of the Doctor).

So yeah, Donna Noble. Stephen Moffat says **** you and shove it.

#SouffleGirl

i'm starting to see that the Clara-hate seems to be stemming from previous companions being "trumped". oh wells, Companions Rite of Passage? its a comparable cycle to everytime theres a new Doctor t:

you know its funny, when they were heading to set Jenna and Samuel were all laughs, clearly they were in their pretty clothes so people rightly assumed they were partying or going on a date. fast forward to the episode of yesterday and it was quite an unpleasant scene. wow actors huh?

I'm probably being far too picky, but I don't like the way the Doctor makes negative comments about Clara's physical appearance in almost every appearance. Whether she's too fat, too skinny, too old or he doesn't like her hair, make-up or clothes, there seems to be at least one negative comment in every episode. I understand that they're deliberately establishing a "no flirting" relationship with Clara, but I think there could be cutting/biting/derogatory comments from the Doctor that don't have anything to do with Clara's physical appearance (especially when she's obviously stunning). I appreciate that Clara has been doing the same, by commenting on how thin, grey and old the Doctor is, but since the Doctor is the "Doctor" and Clara is just a "human" there appears to be a power imbalance which is in favour of the Doctor which gives his constant negative comments more weight..

its how they show their affection with each other to some it will come across as mean spirited, but its one of those lines thats better seen than heard. its almost like how Ten and Donna was t:

 

[Steelsheen]

*sonics you all* t: