Does Marvel have a problem with their villains?

[Rorschach2012]

They need to ****ing redo Red Skull. It was a good start but let's get him rolling, he's one of the best villains Marvel ****ing has. Zero question

And now they have Dr Doom (I'm guessing), Green Goblin, Venom and Doc Ock.

We don't have to worry about villains anymore

 

[Lantern Venom]

So you praise a horribly wasted villain like Ronan and then claim the Mandarin is the only poor MCU villain?

GotG presented the core of Ronan's character: fanatical, brutal, extremely powerful. We got to see that he dispatched those who are "accused" in a space military type style and was gutsy enough to cross Thanos for his political ends. That's much, much, much more depth and source-material accurate than MINO.

 

[Lantern Venom]

They need to ****ing redo Red Skull. It was a good start but let's get him rolling, he's one of the best villains Marvel ****ing has. Zero question

And now they have Dr Doom (I'm guessing), Green Goblin, Venom and Doc Ock.

We don't have to worry about villains anymore

Weaving or no Weaving, Skull needs to come back. He's got more than enough material in a modern setting for him to work in the Avengers' world.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wouldn't say he had a vendetta in Annihilation Conquest personally.

Read the 60s-90s Avengers and then tell me he had no vendetta.

 

[MichaelChen]

GotG presented the core of Ronan's character: fanatical, brutal, extremely powerful. We got to see that he dispatched those who are "accused" in a space military type style and was gutsy enough to cross Thanos for his political ends. That's much, much, much more depth and source-material accurate than MINO.

And comic Mandarin is a rich kid who squandered all of his fiefdom's money training himself into a super-soldier who could karate-chop Iron Man's armor to pieces. The Killiandarin was much closer to that than the rigid lawkeeper reimagined as Space Osama the anarchic terrorist we got with Ronan. Heck, movie Ronan is almost the polar opposite of his comic self: an "I AM THE LAAAW!" type becoming a nihilist and anarchist.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Red Skull and Ronan were amazing villains. They were egomaniacal xenophobes, which made them easy to hate. They were perfect for the kind of international/interplanetary conflicts around which their respective movies revolved. Characters like this don't benefit from too much sympathetic backstory, but that doesn't make them one-dimensional. Goals and modus operandi/powers also play a large part in whether or not a character is interesting.

Mandarin in IM3 is an isolated case so far for Marvel Studios. The character itself wasn't poorly constructed, but it was clearly a mistake for such a storied villain from the comics to be linked with a simple plot device. Hopefully, Marvel learned their lesson from the backlash and we won't see any cheap tricks like that again.

Mandarin hasn't appeared in the MCU. IM3 had Killian and a former actor named Trevor Slattery pretending to be Mandarin. Neither were the real Mandarin.

If you had a problem with Killain and Slattery, that's fine, but at least get it right. Neither were Mandarin.

 

[Lantern Venom]

And comic Mandarin is a rich kid who squandered all of his fiefdom's money training himself into a super-soldier who could karate-chop Iron Man's armor to pieces. The Killiandarin was much closer to that than the rigid lawkeeper reimagined as Space Osama the anarchic terrorist we got with Ronan. Heck, movie Ronan is almost the polar opposite of his comic self: an "I AM THE LAAAW!" type becoming a nihilist and anarchist.

There's much more to Mandarin than that. The differences in his types of rings alone would have been more interesting than what we got.

I'm not at all sure what you expected out of Ronan. In his earliest appearances, he was portrayed as merciless as he rose in the Accuser Corps. He tried to overthrow the Supreme Intelligence and was ready to deal death to anyone who opposed Kree interests, even if it was just destroying a Kree robot. That's the murderous political fanatic that we saw in GotG.

Mandarin hasn't appeared in the MCU. IM3 had Killian and a former actor named Trevor Slattery pretending to be Mandarin. Neither were the real Mandarin.

If you had a problem with Killain and Slattery, that's fine, but at least get it right. Neither were Mandarin.

If Marvel follows through with another storyline that builds on All Hail the King, then that would change the landscape of what they did with Mandarin in IM3. Until they do, it's nothing but lip service.

I don't have a problem with minor characters who exist only to facilitate the plot in some manner. I do have a problem when a landmark comic book character's name is slapped on these type of movie characters. I felt the same about Gwen Stacy in SM3. Either properly adapt a character-- meaning characters essential to the hero's mythos are treated as important--or write something new. Misdirection isn't acceptable.

 

[Flint Marko]

Mandarin is a landmark comic book character...?

 

[Lantern Venom]

Mandarin is a landmark comic book character...?

He's regularly cited as one of Iron Man's top viilains, and usually referred to as his archenemy. When a hero is adapted, his/her usual foes are instantly indispensible.

 

[TeeKay]

Mandarin is a landmark comic book character...?

I think he's up there with Dr Doom, Joker, Ultron Thanos.

 

[Flint Marko]

I disagree entirely lol, Iron Man is notorious for his weak rogues gallery and the Mandarin being his number one baddie isn't an accomplishment of any kind.

 

[Guard82]

I disagree entirely lol, Iron Man is notorious for his weak rogues gallery and the Mandarin being his number one baddie isn't an accomplishment of any kind.

I disagree with this notion. The Mandarin has always been one of my favorite Marvel villains ever since I first discovered him in the Iron Man comic books. I have always ranked the Mandarin among Marvel's heavyweight villains because I always liked his persona -- I liked his regal image, his grand eloquence, his knowledge of history and science, and his ambition.

Also, I'm not one of those people who were unhappy about the Mandarin in IM3. Even though I had some mixed feelings about the twist, I thought the twist worked well with the movie's plot, and we still got some great performances from Ben Kingsley. His scenes are some of the best in the movie, and I liked how they adapted the Mandarin's costume in the movie. Kingsley's acting plus the costume reminded me why I always liked the Mandarin in the comics. The different interpretation of the Mandarin's character in IM3 didn't really bother me a lot because I'm used to seeing the Mandarin adapted in different ways in various TV shows and other media. Whether in the comics, TV, or film, the Mandarin's a favorite of mine.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I disagree entirely lol, Iron Man is notorious for his weak rogues gallery and the Mandarin being his number one baddie isn't an accomplishment of any kind.

That argument is based in personal opinion rather than principle. Any hero who gets a theatrical release, let alone a franchise, should have his or her classic rivalries brought to life. I dont have to particularly lilke that character to understand that. Obviously, it has already worked in print or Mandarin wouldn't be seen as an archnemesis.

 

[The Endless]

The best story featuring the Mandarin was Haunted. Where he plays a shady businessman who stays behind the scenes, who coerces someone called Maya Hansen into creating a biological weapon for him.

Sound familiar?

But yes the MCU does have a problem with villains. The only ones who are decent for me are Loki, Red Skull, Alexander Pierce and Mandarin/Killian. Killgrave and Fisk are fantastic but they have the benefit of multiple hours worth of development alongside the protagonists.

 

[Guard82]

Ultron's clearly broken and insane, but that doesn't take away from the fact he's written as being capable of ending humanity. If anything it adds to the fact that you can't really reason with him. Completely, 100% unhinged. And it was just so tragic to see. He didn't seem like the sociopath who used insanity as a crutch for their maliciousness, but a genuinely broken individual who could not see how or why what they were doing was wrong, even when they saw that something was indeed wrong about it. The way he kept changing his goals and motives and desires felt less like the rationalizing of most villains, and more like the insane ramblings of a truly broken, disjointed mind.

For a lot of these reasons, I really enjoyed Ultron in the movie. His portrayal worked for me because he was complex, intelligent, yet also extremely dangerous. Sometimes I sympathized with him, and sometimes I didn't sympathize with him when he was becoming increasingly malevolent. Overall, Ultron worked for me because he seemed very unique, someone who was very dangerous and wrathful, yet also vulnerable and confused. His rapidly changing emotions and thoughts also helped illustrate just how unbalanced he was despite his advanced intellect.

 

[Guard82]

But yes the MCU does have a problem with villains. The only ones who are decent for me are Loki, Red Skull, Alexander Pierce and Mandarin/Killian. Killgrave and Fisk are fantastic but they have the benefit of multiple hours worth of development alongside the protagonists.

I agree with your choices. I would also add the Winter Soldier, because he was simultaneously so threatening and so tortured. Ultron too because he was so unique in terms of his personality in addition to his raw power.

 

[Rowsdower!]

They need to ****ing redo Red Skull. It was a good start but let's get him rolling, he's one of the best villains Marvel ****ing has. Zero question

And now they have Dr Doom (I'm guessing), Green Goblin, Venom and Doc Ock.

We don't have to worry about villains anymore

Well, I think I saw a rumor that Zemo is actually going to be revealed to be the Red Skull in Civil War. Take that with a grain of salt, but the Russos did say something about Zemo in the film not being the Zemo from the comics; whatever that means.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Well that sounds like a bunch of ****. Zemo is a great villain on his own, no need to consolidate the two characters. Zemo is a villain that could pop up later on when they do Masters of Evil

 

[Rorschach2012]

Can't wait til they do Green Goblin and Dr Doom. To differentiate the MCU versions of these characters, they should allow both villains to be major villains to the MCU at large not just restricted to their respective heroes

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well that sounds like a bunch of ****. Zemo is a great villain on his own, no need to consolidate the two characters. Zemo is a villain that could pop up later on when they do Masters of Evil

It probably is BS but you never know. I feel like the Skull would have come back by now if Hugo Weaving hadn't said in an interview that he doesn't want to play the character again. But then, there were those bullsh** rumors that Robert Redford was actually playing the Red Skull in TWS, so yeah, this is probably a bunch of crap too.

 

[John Locke]

Well, I think I saw a rumor that Zemo is actually going to be revealed to be the Red Skull in Civil War. Take that with a grain of salt, but the Russos did say something about Zemo in the film not being the Zemo from the comics; whatever that means.

Along with them saying Zemo will not be the one from the comics they said he will not have his mask and Zemo will be one of the names he goes by. There's also another theory that he's the real Mandarin.

 

[TeeKay]

I disagree entirely lol, Iron Man is notorious for his weak rogues gallery and the Mandarin being his number one baddie isn't an accomplishment of any kind.

Dammit I was being sacarstic. There's nothing compelling about Mandarin IMO. There's no definitive version of the character. In fact, I could argue that Stand is IM's arch enemy.

 

[Flint Marko]

Dammit I was being sacarstic. There's nothing compelling about Mandarin IMO. There's no definitive version of the character. In fact, I could argue that Stand is IM's arch enemy.

Haha I suspected it but I wasn't sure. Yeah he's not a major character in any sense of the word.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Have to disagree, always liked Mandarin as a bad guy, and of the ones Marvel owns, he was one that could have been really good if they had done him properly. Another missed opportunity by Marvel in my eyes. And I think they know it, hence them making that short where it was revealed there is a 'real' Mandarin out there.

 

[Rorschach2012]

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