Does Marvel have a problem with their villains?

[Flint Marko]

Do you expect the movies to acknowledge them? I don't think that's ever been in the cards.
The separation between the TV and film divisions does not particularly bother me. I can understand why street-level heroes like Jessica Jones and Daredevil would reference Iron Man and Captain America since they are larger than life heroes; conversely I can understand why Cap and Iron Man probably don't even know those two exist.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Do you expect the movies to acknowledge them? I don't think that's ever been in the cards.
The separation between the TV and film divisions does not particularly bother me. I can understand why street-level heroes like Jessica Jones and Daredevil would reference Iron Man and Captain America since they are larger than life heroes; conversely I can understand why Cap and Iron Man probably don't even know those two exist.

I would certainly expect AOS to be acknowledged with Coulson in it as well as Fury and Hill showing up. And yeah, in something like Civil War it would have been nice to see DD, The Punisher or JJ acknowledged.

With the latter 3, I understand them not acknowledging yet though, as they are all just starting out, but I want them acknowledged in the future for sure. Just to connect everything together. I would certainly imagine someone like Fury would know of them though.

 

[metaphysician]

Do you expect the movies to acknowledge them? I don't think that's ever been in the cards.
The separation between the TV and film divisions does not particularly bother me. I can understand why street-level heroes like Jessica Jones and Daredevil would reference Iron Man and Captain America since they are larger than life heroes; conversely I can understand why Cap and Iron Man probably don't even know those two exist.

Well, I wouldn't be shocked if they are aware they exist. . . but only in the sense that they have information resources and probably monitor superhuman activity worldwide. So, Steve and Tony are both probably *aware* that Daredevil and Jessica Jones exist, because they've read files about them assembled by Maria Hill. These files may not consist of a lot more than what has shown up in the news and the police reports, mind.

More importantly, they won't necessarily stand out, since they've read files and seen reports about tons of *other* superheroes and superhumans and weirdness, in cities all over the country and the world. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are big, important names to us, because of their preexisting comics and such, and so we get to watch them do stuff. This doesn't mean that, in setting, there's not dozens of people of a similar scale out there.

 

[kedrell]

Based on what Miller did with Lord Humungus and the Toecutter in his Mad Max series, it shouldn't be that hard to establish a really good villain in a short amount of time.

Those are good villains? You never hear hardly anyone talk about them. It seems like people expect a Darth Vader or Hans Gruber or Hannibal Lector every time. Those guys are the exceptions, the stand outs.

 

[Flint Marko]

Those are good villains? You never hear hardly anyone talk about them. It seems like people expect a Darth Vader or Hans Gruber or Hannibal Lector every time. Those guys are the exceptions, the stand outs.

Well said.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The only weak villains the MCU has were Malekith and Kurse. The rest IMO are either adequate or really good.

Kurse was fine. He was just supposed be a big, silent brute that looked cool and was hard to beat up. That's a common character in action films. Now he wasn't the absolute best that we've seen from that character archetype, like Jaws or Oddjob, but he was decent enough.

 

[DarkKnight]

I've heard some people say Marvel has a problem with their villains on this forum before but I don't think so. I thought Loki, Ronan and Ultron were great Villains! Enjoyed them very much. Sure there a few I didn't care for like Whiplash, Manderin and Red Skull. But we're they "weak" I don't this so. Just not my taste.

 

[BoredGuy]

Two-Face, Bane, Prince Nuada, General Zod (Man of Steel).

And if we are going old school there is Deacon Frost, Nomak, Rasputin, Green Goblin, Doc Ock

I'd say 3 of those were good to great or at least memorable villains
the rest, not so much
point is, no studio is going to bat a thousand with villains
even the beloved Nolan trilogy only succeeded like 2 and a half times with it's villains and failed an equal amount
Bane sucked bushels of d***s, Talia was a total anti-climax, and Two-Face was too quickly dealt with to make a strong impact

 

[Dark Phantom]

Bane sucked bushels of d***s

 

[TeeKay]

Do you expect the movies to acknowledge them? I don't think that's ever been in the cards.
The separation between the TV and film divisions does not particularly bother me. I can understand why street-level heroes like Jessica Jones and Daredevil would reference Iron Man and Captain America since they are larger than life heroes; conversely I can understand why Cap and Iron Man probably don't even know those two exist.

There's really no reason for them to be acknowledged in the film verse especially what AoU established.

 

[BoredGuy]

he just salty cuz he know its true

 

[Mike Murdock]

Bane sucked bushels of d***s

I really wish I could post a Louis CK bit right now.

 

[Victarion]

I'd say 3 of those were good to great or at least memorable villains
the rest, not so much
point is, no studio is going to bat a thousand with villains
even the beloved Nolan trilogy only succeeded like 2 and a half times with it's villains and failed an equal amount
Bane sucked bushels of d***s, Talia was a total anti-climax, and Two-Face was too quickly dealt with to make a strong impact

The characters served their movies' themes. Its the best you can ask, or expect, of your story's characters.

It's what I loved about Iron Man 3's Mandarin, and is why I consider Whiplash to be wasted potential. Stane was better than Whiplash, though only marginally so. Stane was a great character for the first half-ish of the movie. Once Iron Man's in his suit, the movie mostly proceeds as these movies tend to - fights villain, gets girl, and that's a wrap. It discards the really interesting elements and themes established in the first half of the movie.

Threads from the first half of the movie, specifically Iron Man's attacking Raza's group when they were executing people in that village, were simply dropped rather than taken to the appropriate conclusion. Instead, we get a fight between two guys in supersuits.

Marvel could easily have had Stane providing technology to the peoples that were negatively impacted by Iron Man's presence in the middle east, with Raza letting them loose in New York to get their revenge on Iron Man. Wild attacks, chaos, confusion and the interesting question of: how does Tony use his new identity to live up to the legacy he sowed overseas?

@Kedrell: Its all a matter of preference, I think. I never found Vader all that intimidating back when I first saw Star Wars as a lad of about eight or nine, nor in ROTS when he had his rise to power. His menace never really felt real, to me. Whereas the ones I cited, did. I enjoy watching and trying to crack their psychological profile whereas, to me, Vader's just some guy in a cool helmet with a silly computer on his chest.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

There's really no reason for them to be acknowledged in the film verse especially what AoU established.

I would certainly say Agents Of Shield should be acknowledged. You have now powered people popping up all over the world and being on the news. These people are disappearing after wreaking havoc and being all over the news. I would imagine The Avengers and Nick Fury would be interested in things like that.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I would certainly expect AOS to be acknowledged with Coulson in it as well as Fury and Hill showing up. And yeah, in something like Civil War it would have been nice to see DD, The Punisher or JJ acknowledged.

With the latter 3, I understand them not acknowledging yet though, as they are all just starting out, but I want them acknowledged in the future for sure. Just to connect everything together. I would certainly imagine someone like Fury would know of them though.

Yep. The street level vigilantes like Daredevil would barely warrant a passing mention, maybe by Gen. Ross as evidence to support the Accords. But AOS MUST be alluded to if they want to keep maintaining any resemblance of a shared universe. It would be a massive plothole not to.

 

[John Locke]

There's really no reason for them to be acknowledged in the film verse especially what AoU established.

Except for the part where Coulson gave Fury the helicarrier and that Shield is still around.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I've heard some people say Marvel has a problem with their villains on this forum before but I don't think so. I thought Loki, Ronan and Ultron were great Villains!

What so good about Ronan?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yep. The street level vigilantes like Daredevil would barely warrant a passing mention, maybe by Gen. Ross as evidence to support the Accords. But AOS MUST be alluded to if they want to keep maintaining any resemblance of a shared universe. It would be a massive plothole not to.

Yep, exactly,and with the accords powered people like Luke Cage and JJ would at least be monitored.

What so good about Ronan?

Liked Ronan a lot personally, big fan of the comics character but liked the movie version, he was at least a huge physical threat to the heroes. Something Ultron wasn't.

 

[TeeKay]

What so good about Ronan?

Nothing really. Upon repeated viewings he's more or less Malekith 2.O.

Except for the part where Coulson gave Fury the helicarrier and that Shield is still around.

That's actually something Fury should have acknowledged in AoU. Coulson I alive. The rest IMO is irrelevant to the bigger picture.

 

[Mjölnir]

Liked Ronan a lot personally, big fan of the comics character but liked the movie version, he was at least a huge physical threat to the heroes. Something Ultron wasn't.

He was a physical threat to them but it had no impact on the story at all as that had nothing to do with his ultimate plan. I'd say that was one of the lesser aspects of him as a villain.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He was a physical threat to them but it had no impact on the story at all as that had nothing to do with his ultimate plan. I'd say that was one of the lesser aspects of him as a villain.

Well he was better in that aspect than Ultron, with Ronan I found I was asking myself how they were going to beat him. Never got close to that with Ultron, there was no tension as he got beat throughout the movie by The Avengers so I had no questions if they would beat him in the end.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I thought both Ronan and Ultron were well executed characters.

 

[marvellover]

Well he was better in that aspect than Ultron, with Ronan I found I was asking myself how they were going to beat him. Never got close to that with Ultron, there was no tension as he got beat throughout the movie by The Avengers so I had no questions if they would beat him in the end.

True,I never felt any stakes in final battle in AOU
In fact,it was actually pretty boring for a large scale team up superheroes movie

Didn't even feel the need to worry about Thor when Ultron got his hands on him in his final form

I would say Ronan actually is a physical threat while Ultron is slightly better as a villain with more interesting personality and non human character

Cap wouldn't stand a chance with Ronan at all if they got into a fight

 

[Mjölnir]

Well he was better in that aspect than Ultron, with Ronan I found I was asking myself how they were going to beat him. Never got close to that with Ultron, there was no tension as he got beat throughout the movie by The Avengers so I had no questions if they would beat him in the end.

I didn't say he wasn't, I just don't think that neither him nor Ultron had their physical threat be much of a part of their overall threat. Both of them tried to use something to devastate a planet and really didn't need to beat up the heroes to do it. Both characters of course could have done it more given their power in the comics, but I don't think it turned out that way in the movies.

 

[Victarion]

Ronan's a villain with quite a bit of potential. He needed more of an arc or something. Like slipping Thanos's leash, and incidentally coming into conflict with the GotG.