Dozens feared dead after truck strikes crowd in Nice, France

[Citadel30]

It's actually both Dubya's and Obama's fault.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/08/bush-clinton-play-blame-game-in-iraq/

But when you consider Bush also overthrew Saddam without an exit strategy he might deserve the lionshare of the blame.

I agree with this 100%. We can't just go in and kick butt without a clear exit plan... Which is not a 4-8 year plan. It's a commitment to change generational thinking. Apologies for indicating blame on one person, Darth. If we invade, no matter who is President or who unseats him or her, we have to be prepared to stay in country YEARS after killing these bad guys so that we can help educate those who were oppressed, as opposed of leaving them with nothing but dead relatives, dads, brothers, etc. without educating these folks on a way of life different from ISIS rule, hey will revert to only what they know.

Just my .02...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Who said anything about rounding up Muslims...are you and Teelie on the same stuff?

I'll make it simple for you:

Modern genocide is bad for the same reasons modern slavery is bad.

It doesn't matter if America did both in the 1800's.

We have formed a "more perfect union" since then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I agree with this 100%. We can't just go in and kick butt without a clear exit plan... Which is not a 4-8 year plan. It's a commitment to change generational thinking. Apologies for indicating blame on one person, Darth. If we invade, no matter who is President or who unseats him or her, we have to be prepared to stay in country YEARS after killing these bad guys so that we can help educate those who were oppressed, as opposed of leaving them with nothing but dead relatives, dads, brothers, etc. without educating these folks on a way of life different from ISIS rule, hey will revert to only what they know.

Just my .02...

This is fair. But one of the reasons the situation got so bad is how we entered the war. It left few if any Americans with the stomach to gut it out. It was an unjust war, started under false pretenses, that ended in the loss of Americans lives and an unstable Middle East. So basically, a mini-Vietnam.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I wonder if this attack is what set the Turkish coup into motion. Do it while the world is preoccupied.

 

[regwec]

Turkish coups are, I begin to understand, usually long premeditated, so it seems unlikely

 

[DeadPresident]

I'll make it simple for you:

Modern genocide is bad for the same reasons modern slavery is bad.

It doesn't matter if America did both in the 1800's.

We have formed a "more perfect union" since then.

Are you reading off a notepad? It's coming across like you're not reading anything I'm actually typing but just adlibbing at random. I didn't explicitly or implicitly mention anything related to genocide. Militarily there needs to be action in regard to ISIS strongholds and socially there needs to be discussion about the reform of Islam and it's conventions. I'm repeating myself just so you have another point of reference - I'm not sure how you're leaping to genocide from my rather specific and basic comments.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Are you reading off a notepad? It's coming across like you're not reading anything I'm actually typing but just adlibbing at random. I didn't explicitly or implicitly mention anything related to genocide. Militarily there needs to be action in regard to ISIS strongholds and socially there needs to be discussion about the reform of Islam and it's conventions. I'm repeating myself just so you have another point of reference - I'm not sure how you're leaping to genocide from my rather specific and basic comments.

But you did say America had no moral ground because we commited genocide in the past, correct?

I was just stating that the country is different today and not capable of those same crimes.

 

[jmc]

What is your solution, pumpkin? Stop lamenting and give me an alternative, very simple task. When did everyone become a spineless coward? So long as we don't have human beings fit to occupy this social utopia everyone craves we've got the old rules to play by. The old rules dictate that when someone violates your sovereignty and kills your citizens you stop them from doing it.

You say I'm ignorant? I'm not the one ignoring human nature and apparently at ease with the fact that inaction makes an entire population victims of a sick roulette game of who's going to get killed next. As unpalatable as it might be for your sensitive sensibilities the correct response is not sitting and observing tragedies in idle anticipation of a miraculous solution. You're going to keep turning all your cheeks until it affects you personally and then you'll whine about why nobody stood up to do anything.

What would Churchill or Eisenhower or any other strong leader have done in this context?

The problem is in the enemy today does not have a defined border or military uniform you can easily see. You're working with lone individuals with loose connections to terrorists groups who work alone and stay off the grid. You ask what can be done about it - the answer is not much. All the chest beating in the world is not going to stop the fact you can't prevent someone from doing harm if they really want to do it.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Some of the comments in this thread make the posters sound really terrible. Detain innocent people because they had the misfortune to be related to a terrorist?

Kill enough people and we win?

Let's start a religious war with Islam and see how much we can recreate the Crusades?

What's next? Nuking Iraq and Syria? A few comments already hinted at doing that.

More than 80 people are dead and the response in here is let's go kill a whole lot more to get revenge.

What do you suggest?

 

[Marvolo]

What do you suggest?

Sing kumbaya.

 

[jmc]

What do you suggest?

Maybe just accept you can never stop an individual who wants to do harm to others.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What do you suggest?

Well, basically we can live in a free society while enforcing our current laws knowing there will be some casualties or create a draconian police state that destroys the freedoms our societies were founded on while spending our brief existence in a virtual prison.

 

[Marvolo]

Well, basically we can live in a free society while enforcing our current laws knowing there will be some casualties or create a draconian police state that destroys the freedoms our societies were founded on while spending our brief existence in a virtual prison.

Or we could stop with the either/or extremes mentality.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Or we could stop with the either/or extremes mentality.

Except that keeping society the way it is, enforcing current laws, and preserving the Bill of Rights isn't that extreme.

 

[Marvolo]

Except that keeping society the way it is, enforcing current laws, and preserving the Bill of Rights isn't that extreme.

I mean extremes as in "either/or" "A or Z." No middle ground. You seem to think its either do things the way we've been doing (which isn't effective) or have a police state. Those are two extremes and not the only options. We need to start adjusting and trying other methods.

Domestic laws, and the Bill of Rights isn't going to take care of things like ISIS. And frankly as far as I'm concerned ISIS doesn't have the right to be protected by our Bill of Rights and Constitution. When you start running over babies and gunning down scores of people and swearing allegiance to a foreign radical group you forfeit any rights as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Endless]

Going to Syria all guns blazing is the dumbest idea ever. It will be exactly the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan. A war that cannot be won. All the while these lone wolf terrorist attacks keep happening.

See these attacks in France and Belgium are perpetrated by, for lack of a better term, "fanboys". Fanboys of ISIS. They aren't real soldiers. They are obsessive psychopaths who have had **** type lives so have turned to fanatical Islam as a release for their frustrations.

The only way to fight these people is by having strong, noble Muslim leaders make their presence known. Their religion has been corrupted yet they do nothing. We need a new Saladin to unite the Muslim world. But most of the powerful Muslims in Saudi Arabia etc are more concerned with how many gold plated Rolls Royces they have. Saddam Hussain was a monster... but he kept all these wankers in check. The US and UK removed him from power and have that left that part of the world without order.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I mean extremes as in "either/or" "A or Z." No middle ground. You seem to think its either do things the way we've been doing (which isn't effective) or have a police state. Those are two extremes and not the only options. We need to start adjusting and trying other methods.

Domestic laws, and the Bill of Rights isn't going to take care of things like ISIS. And frankly as far as I'm concerned ISIS doesn't have the right to be protected by our Bill of Rights and Constitution. When you start running over babies and gunning down scores of people and swearing allegiance to a foreign radical group you forfeit any rights as far as I'm concerned.

Sure ISIS are enemy combatants who deserve to be treated as such.

However, the Bill of Rights protects innocent Muslims suspected of terrorism. Currently these people are being targeted by the far right globally.

In fact anyone who's Muslim is a target based on some of these suggested policies.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Going to Syria all guns blazing is the dumbest idea ever. It will be exactly the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan. A war that cannot be won. All the while these lone wolf terrorist attacks keep happening.

See these attacks in France and Belgium are perpetrated by, for lack of a better term, "fanboys". Fanboys of ISIS. They aren't real soldiers. They are obsessive psychopaths who have had **** type lives so have turned to fanatical Islam as a release for their frustrations.

The only way to fight these people is by having strong, noble Muslim leaders make their presence known. Their religion has been corrupted yet they do nothing. We need a new Saladin to unite the Muslim world. But most of the powerful Muslims in Saudi Arabia etc are more concerned with how many gold plated Rolls Royces they have. Saddam Hussain was a monster... but he kept all these wankers in check. The US and UK removed him from power and have that left that part of the world without order.

Don't forget Gaddaffi, leader of one of the most prosperous nations of Africa that's now turned into a dystopic terrorist breeding ground.

 

[The Endless]

True.

 

[Muze]

Going to Syria all guns blazing is the dumbest idea ever. It will be exactly the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan. A war that cannot be won. All the while these lone wolf terrorist attacks keep happening.

well said. hopefully, we find an alternative (and soon).

 

[JimThompson]

Going to Syria all guns blazing is the dumbest idea ever. It will be exactly the same as Vietnam and Afghanistan. A war that cannot be won. All the while these lone wolf terrorist attacks keep happening.

See these attacks in France and Belgium are perpetrated by, for lack of a better term, "fanboys". Fanboys of ISIS. They aren't real soldiers. They are obsessive psychopaths who have had **** type lives so have turned to fanatical Islam as a release for their frustrations.

The only way to fight these people is by having strong, noble Muslim leaders make their presence known. Their religion has been corrupted yet they do nothing. We need a new Saladin to unite the Muslim world. But most of the powerful Muslims in Saudi Arabia etc are more concerned with how many gold plated Rolls Royces they have. Saddam Hussain was a monster... but he kept all these wankers in check. The US and UK removed him from power and have that left that part of the world without order.

While I agree what you have outlined has to be part of the solution, how many more times does Western culture have to be hit before it realizes there is some trash to be taken out as well?