Dragon Age 2 Incoming. - Part 1

[Drz]

Mark Laidlaw talks about the direction of Dragon Age 3:

Spoiler

Thank you. <3

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't really get people who hate Mike Laidlaw.

 

[Sloth7d]

Yes, what a vile sin - characters with differences in ability. Isn't it godawful that you can't change their clothes or let them run around naked, too? ****ing turned me right off, let me tell you.

I bring up abilities, and you bring up nudity, was there any point to that? Other than to distract from the main that yes, regressing the game by taking away options from the player is indeed a bad thing. When I see Dragon Age 2, I expect progress from the first game, not regression.

And it is your decision to make. You're deciding that you need a traditional sword/shield tank, and so you're deciding to take Aveline. You don't have to.

And if I don't like Aveline? Then that's too bad for me isn't it? As I'm stuck with a character I don't like chiming in every so often in cut scene and party banter alike. This doesn't make for good improvement when last game you had such a diverse choice of personalities in the warriors you get.

Hell, if you're playing on Normal, you don't even need Warriors. Or Rogues. Or Mages.

Again, this doesn't address the point. Just to further explain how it doesn't, in the first game you could easily solo the entire story on Nightmare without using any party members. This would not excuse Bioware making the other characters stock and one dime dimensional.

I don't see the lack of progress. It's flavor. Fenris is designed to be a two-handed warrior - reckless, angry. Aveline's history of training comes from shield tactics - disciplined. Isabela is a dual-bladed duelist. Why should she be good with a bow?

There's absolutely nothing in canon that prevents any of them from being good with other weapons. Not a thing. The only characters who comes close are Varric(for his preference of only Bianca) and Anders(for his hate of blood magic). You're completely wrong on this point.

Add to it that their specialization trees feed into, you know, the styles they're specialized in and we have something that looks alarmingly like intent on the part of the game designers to provide us with a definitive vision.

The only character this makes a good argument for is Varric. No one else's specialization is so dependent they use a specific weapon. Oh and maybe Isabella for THAT SINGLE BACKSTABBING ATTACK SHE HAS IN HER TREE.

The use of specializations also never hindered characters in Dragon Age Origins from using weapons in their class. And there's no reason it should.

Nah, couldn't be. BioWare doesn't do that.

Oh, I get it. You wanted another game entirely.

Obviously not, given that I said I liked this game, and that the amount of hate it gets is overblown. You're the one jumping down my throughout as if having criticism of the game is like pissing on the Holy Grail. FYI, not everyone who likes this game thinks it's 10/10, or 9/10, or even 8/10 material.

DAO, where you could, if you wanted to, get Alistair at level 5 and waste all previous talent points to start putting points into the two-handed tree, then get Sten at level 7 or Oghren at a much later level than that and put their points into something other than two-handed, which they come as being expected to wield, per intent and vision. Barring mods, of course, on the PC. Oh, wait, it's pretty much exactly like that, only better coded.

Yeah, exactly like that, except for that really big thing about being able to change their style. Isabella's a rogue, she shouldn't be unable to use a bow even if she specializes in dual wielding. Knowing how to dual wield didn't stop her from knowing how to throw a vile of poison in the air and kick across the screen into a cluster of enemies. Merrill should be able to learn healing abilities. There's no reason for excluding it from her. She isn't like Morrigan. She has nothing against healing magic canonically.
Etc.

Oh, I see what you (tried to do) right there!

First off, it's not quite as you break it down. Not every Warrior who joins the party is anti-Mage,

Name one who isn't. Fenris is, Carver is, and, should you take Aveline to the fade, even she takes an anti-Mage stance, though even before that her loyalty to the law shaped her into being the sort to side with The Chantry and Templars.

nor do they have the same reasons. Nor is every Mage who joins you pro-Mage in the Kirkwall situation.

Merril is pro, Anders is pro, and Bethany is pro. Where is this invisible other Mage you're suggesting at? There is no Wynne in your party this time around.

Nor are Varric, Isabela, and Sebastian indifferent to the situation.

Except that they all are, or I should actually say Sebastion is neutral like the Grand Cleric and wants what's best for both sides.

That you're incapable of differentiating and seem to have no actual knowledge of the individual characters and their beliefs, well, rather debunks the argument right about there.

Oh that's a laughable summation. You're the only one strawmanning me as doing and saying that.When all I have spoken on is the characters ultimate stance and not necessarily their backgrounds, you're attempt to add more to it only shows your overzeal to desperately prove me wrong. I don't know what this game means to you, but just know that it didn't have that same impact with everyone. Geez, shame on me for having criticisms of a game I enjoyed.

Note such interesting things as:
Friendship/Rivalry paths play out different for companions, altering interactions with Hawke, some dialogue, and overall attitudes.
The quick and surface differences he notes of some companions
His first line, referencing the fact that these companions spend seven years tied to the location primarily due to Hawke, with his/her role as their leader and what ties them together. (Which, need it be said, and it probably need be said, was kind of an entire point to the game, on the part of BioWare.)
Tied to the just-mentioned point, this is a BioWare game, meaning we are involved in some vision of the Campbellian Hero Archetype, which in this game means that everything that happens to the companions is as a result of Hawke, and Hawke can change the world.

But getting Fenris to throw away years of Mage hatred with one line about slavery is stupid. It's like getting a black person who happens to be homophobic to aid gay people by saying "hey, they get discriminated against the same as you" even though that black person just so happened to have hatred of gay people stemming from a childhood of sexual abuse by a some gay guy who was a sadists. Fenris thinks everything magic touches gets ruined. That's how he was conditioned to respond after years of abuse. To undo that with one line that he just rationally accepts like a stoic is ridiculous. Logic NEVER conquers a deep seated hatred so easily like that.

 

[Sloth7d]

You gotta remember the characters go thru alot and alot of the things you go thru relate very much to the whole Mages & Templars conflict, i believe convincing Fenris sounds believable because he knows what being a slave is alike,

Yeah, I disagree with this. He wouldn't associate the slavery he went through with that of the mages, because he doesn't believe his was necessary. His hatred of magic would never allow him to so easily accept one line relating his ordeal to that of the mages.

and he has for 7 years worked with you and other decent Mages in the party arguebly. Rivalry Anders joining the Templar cause is just all kinds of awesomeness for me, because it adds up a whole new level of conflict with Anders and Justice and whos dominating and who isn't.

See, but he shouldn't be joining them in the first place. That's like getting Osama Bin Ladin to help in the war against Al Qaeda. It just wouldn't make sense given their fringe ideals and how far past the point of no return they've gone with their terrorist attacks.

Merrill's just a naivé child arguebly who really needs proper guidance,

This I partially agree with. Her being naive? Yes. Her needing proper guidance? Well, yes, she does need to listen to her superiors admonishments, but no, she's far too stubborn a person to ever do it. If The Keeper and all of her very own clan couldn't dissuade her, I don't see anyone else.

and Aveline believes in the Order but you gotta rememebr she was once married to a Templar.

Aveline has always shown that she puts friendship over the rules, so I have no beef with her when it comes to choices. She's pretty much like a bland version of Kakashi in that regard, lol.

 

[El Bastardo]

Aw, how cute. Whinerage. It's too bad it took you so long.

How many times have you played the game, I could ask. It's rather obvious you have no idea what most of the character outcomes are outside of basic sentiment when you first pick them up. Novel concept, but the characters change based on events in their lives and your choices to them, based on Friendship and/or Rivalry - I do believe I pointed that out previously, actually - and whether you've locked those loyalties.

As for your supposed character breakdowns. Per the conflict in Kirkwall, the only two companions who fit into either pro-mage or anti-mage are Anders and Fenris, respectively. The other companions have leanings, but none of them are either descriptor. Merril is not pro-mage - she believes she should be trusted and not scolded, that demons are not demons but just more spirits, and that blood magic does not make her evil. As an elf and apostate, no, she's not much for handing people over to the Templars, but she isn't dancing around a cauldron of blood casting a spell to blow them up. She disapproves of backing the Annulment, but that has nothing to do with her being pro-mage. Isabela disapproves, too, but by your own reasoning she's totally ambivalent because she's a rogue. And yet, she's not ambivalent, nor is she pro-mage. Rather, Isabela believes in freedom and individual choice. Aveline had a Templar husband and believes in the law, and that's where her support of the Templars comes from - she isn't vehemently opposed to mages, not even Anders. Carver's problem with mages comes from his upbringing and a large amount of jealousy toward his sister and, primarily, PC-Mage-Hawke. He never says they should all get dead or be locked up or distrusted, but he doesn't like it when you make a special case for mages. Even as a Templar, he doesn't agree with Miranda's extreme measures.

As for canon and weapons, um, yeah, right. Well, considering the game designers implemented the characters with a specific weapon style in mind and nothing in game shows us those characters with a different weapon style equipped - which is, actually, the canon we have supplied, as the game is the only canon that exists until these characters maybe-possibly show up in some other work of fiction sporting other weapons - well, this is a long-winded way of stating, yep, looks like the canon fits these characters being comfortable with and trained with the weapons they can equip in game! Ho ho. Hee hee. Har har! As for the two mages - Anders's priority on emphasizing his talent with healing magic results in a diminished ability to traffic with spirits and curses, and vice-versa for Merril. Really, it's not that hard to picture. Entropy is not blood magic, by the by, so whatever you were going on about up there with Anders and his hatred of blood magic, yeah, okay.

As for this apparently making the characters one-dimensional, and the DAO characters having so much more variety to them - well, whatever, but can I have a pair of them rose-colored glasses? That'd be swell. Next time I play DAO without any character respec mods, I'll make sure to start turning Sten into a DW Warrior at level 7 so I can have a blatantly better playing experience. Thank you for educating me.

And as for Anders joining your siding with the Templars? You should really try playing that out, or watching videos of it, before you nay-say it. It's based on an entire game's worth of Rivalry, and it's rather well-written. Oh, you say it doesn't make sense, so it can't be well-written. Right.

And please, don't be dramatic. I've not jumped down your throat at all. DA2 has its flaws, and I have my problems with it. But just because you didn't like aesthetic and design choices doesn't mean the game sucks, and it doesn't mean the game has regressed from DAO. *****ing about weapons has got to be one of the most stupid things I've seen, not to mention the not-so-evaluation-and-lack-of-understanding posing as literary analysis.

 

[Drz]

PCGAMER: Bioware talks Dragon Age 3! "Best from both games"

&#8220;It&#8217;s interesting because the first reviews &#8211; the number of the reviews was also very polarised, awesomely so. Lots of 90+ reviews, we also got fans that I think in some cases who were expecting more Dragon Age: Origins, and there was a misalignment of expectation there,&#8221; says Dr Ray.

&#8220;One of the core values of Bioware is that we take feedback really seriously, and we know that the core fans who were expecting more Dragon Age Origins &#8211; we have to respond to that &#8211; we&#8217;re not willing to ignore that, we&#8217;re going to take that head on.&#8221;

&#8220;We also have an obligation to our new fans,&#8221; adds Dr. Ray, &#8220;the ones who were surprised and delighted with some new approaches and accessibility in terms of action and combat&#8221;

&#8220;What we need to do as developers is take that feedback from both sets of fans to heart and see about marrying that in future games in the Dragon Age franchise. I think that the team has actually got a great plan. I think the team is going to have some things that are going to surprise both sets of fans, both core fans and new fans with a marriage of these&#8230; the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. And we look forward more to talking about that in the future.&#8221;

I think Bioware 3 will focus on a bigger continent than a Mere city, tho the city has alot of things happen in it's 7 years from alot of Grey Warden Activity to Blood Mages, Tevinter Imperium activity and the Dalish clan staying there, perhaps trying to get a Ferelden size game like Orlais or Tevinter Imperium would truly serve best the both fans, plus i'm sure EA realizes they can't just fast produce a game, while the initial sales we're strong (and DA2 is cheaper than DAO in production value) it's not the kind of wins that the company wants.

 

[X Knight]

PCGAMER: Bioware talks Dragon Age 3! "Best from both games"


I think Bioware 3 will focus on a bigger continent than a Mere city, tho the city has alot of things happen in it's 7 years from alot of Grey Warden Activity to Blood Mages, Tevinter Imperium activity and the Dalish clan staying there, perhaps trying to get a Ferelden size game like Orlais or Tevinter Imperium would truly serve best the both fans, plus i'm sure EA realizes they can't just fast produce a game, while the initial sales we're strong (and DA2 is cheaper than DAO in production value) it's not the kind of wins that the company wants.

that's good to hear.

there are aspects of DAO I like and aspects of DA2 that I like.

 

[Drz]

 

[X Knight]

so....when do you think we will start hearing more concrete info re DA3?

once ME3 is out?

 

[iamlegend]

so....when do you think we will start hearing more concrete info re DA3?

once ME3 is out?

Probably. That's Big Ticket Item No. 1 right now for BioWare, and it seems like they're going to take a bit longer developing DA3 than they did DA2 anyway. DA2 was released just 16 months after DAO (and there was a relatively sizeable expansion during that 16 month gap). We're now 5 months out of DA2 and we've gotten one DLC.

Seems like the development team is going to rethink and reload before anything sizeable happens on a DA3.

 

[X Knight]

Probably. That's Big Ticket Item No. 1 right now for BioWare, and it seems like they're going to take a bit longer developing DA3 than they did DA2 anyway. DA2 was released just 16 months after DAO (and there was a relatively sizeable expansion during that 16 month gap). We're now 5 months out of DA2 and we've gotten one DLC.

Seems like the development team is going to rethink and reload before anything sizeable happens on a DA3.

that's good, imo. don't rush into DA3 like they did with DA2.

not saying they exactly rushed into DA2, but it did seem rather soon after DAO when they announced DA2.

DA2 was prob the 1st game where I really followed it through the entire life cycle, from announcement to launch. even got to interact with some of the devs on the Bioware forum, which was cool!!

However, when I finally got my hands on DA2, it just didn't interest me the way DAO did.

So, I'm definitely more cautious going into DA3.

with that being said, hearing the devs mention that DA3 will feature a new protagonist has actually enthused me to revisit DA2 ( and DAO ), since I know the games are now "separate" stories and I don't have to worry about my character "carrying over" into the next game.

 

[El Bastardo]

I've gone back to DAO to get me some specific import conditions to play into DA2, and oh balls.

Shuffle combat.

 

[Drz]

I've gone back to DAO to get me some specific import conditions to play into DA2, and oh balls.

Shuffle combat.

http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2251

 

[El Bastardo]

I'd rather play the game.

 

[X Knight]

I've gone back to DAO to get me some specific import conditions to play into DA2, and oh balls.

Shuffle combat.

yeah......that's one thing I did NOT miss from DAO.

once you get used to the combat in DA2, it's harder to go back to the combat of DAO.

However, one aspect of DAO combat that I DID miss is the finishing moves. y'know.....when your warrior spins around and lops the enemy's head off with a graceful slice of the blade.......

the finishers on regular enemies ( and on bosses, too ) created a more "visceral" connection to the combat. that aspect of DAO combat is more satisfying, imo, than DA2, where it seems every generic looking enemy explodes into a burst of guts and bloods........

so, that's one thing I hope they change in DA3. Keep the combat mechanics of DA2, but add back the finishers from DAO......

 

[El Bastardo]

They add something, but they're not necessary. Once you've seen the different animations for each weapon style, that's that. If I can catch a good pause of one I might screenshot it, especially if it might be fairly unique - like getting a finisher on Wynne, for instance - then it's great for ****s and giggles.

But otherwise they just take precious seconds I could be slaughtering more stuff.

 

[Speedball]

I've been playing a lot of Dragon Age lately. Beat Origins with my Mage and started 2 with a Mage Hawke that looks similar to the Mage (Because they're distant cousins).
The more I play these games, the more I see they're universe is similar to A Song of Ice and Fire. Even the map of Thedas looks similar to the map of the ASIF map if you turn it sideways.

 

[X Knight]

They add something, but they're not necessary. Once you've seen the different animations for each weapon style, that's that. If I can catch a good pause of one I might screenshot it, especially if it might be fairly unique - like getting a finisher on Wynne, for instance - then it's great for ****s and giggles.

But otherwise they just take precious seconds I could be slaughtering more stuff.

true, the finishers aren't necessary.......but, for me, they just made the combat in DAO feel more satisfying.

but, if they don't make it in DA3, I certainly won't shed a tear.

I would much rather they bring back the DW warrior or lift the weapon-class restrictions.......

 

[El Bastardo]

I've been playing a lot of Dragon Age lately. Beat Origins with my Mage and started 2 with a Mage Hawke that looks similar to the Mage (Because they're distant cousins).
The more I play these games, the more I see they're universe is similar to A Song of Ice and Fire. Even the map of Thedas looks similar to the map of the ASIF map if you turn it sideways.

Eh? Which part of the ASoIaF map? Thedas, right-side up or upside-down or sideways looks nothing like Westeros. Maybe it looks like some of Essos, but that's mostly just in the zig and zag of shoreline. Sideways. And not very close.

true, the finishers aren't necessary.......but, for me, they just made the combat in DAO feel more satisfying.

but, if they don't make it in DA3, I certainly won't shed a tear.

I would much rather they bring back the DW warrior or lift the weapon-class restrictions.......

Why?

Rogues didn't equip two-handed weapons but for freak builds people did to prove it would work. No Rogue ever made a sword-and-shield build.

Warrior archers were only good come Awakening, and that depended on Spirit Warrior and a giant stamina pool, plus Aim stacking incorrectly with Accuracy. As for DW Warriors, the only thing they had over Rogues was talent spam, and that can be overcome with equipment. Not to mention, given the way DA2 was conceived and built, there's no reason for Warriors to have access to that talent tree.

Diversity is good, you know. Given all they did was take out of DAO what didn't work from a mechanics standpoint, and then wrapped that up in a package that shows a stronger vision - I find it hard to condemn that.

 

[Speedball]

Eh? Which part of the ASoIaF map? Thedas, right-side up or upside-down or sideways looks nothing like Westeros. Maybe it looks like some of Essos, but that's mostly just in the zig and zag of shoreline. Sideways. And not very close.

it's how close the Free Marches are so close to Ferelden, just across a narrow sea. And all the cities in the Free Marches are independent of one another, just like the cities are in ASoIF.
Fereldan is Westeros, not the whole map.
It's not a perfect match, of course.

Ugh... why do I even bring **** like this up in threads... It's too hard to debate in text...

 

[El Bastardo]

I'll give you the Free Marches as a similarity. But Ferelden as Westeros? No. They based the Thedas cultures on real world analogues, and Ferelden is intended as the British Isles.

 

[Drz]

Bioware released their 2nd item pack DLC, the rogue set looks awesome and it's suppose to be Loghain and Duncan's old gear that makes it kinda awesomesauce too.

Dragon Age Leacy and Mass Effect 3 Q&A
- Legacy has been very well received feedback wise, the way it had whole new areas and the villain wave combat was done much better, i mean they didn't jump out of thin air but spawned froma distance and ran towards the player.
- Grey Wardens are the pillars of Dragon Age universe.
- "We're not done with Hawke's story and DA2"
- You will see more about the Chantry and the Templars post-ending.
- We may ran into the Champion and the Warden, but it's very uncertain.
- Leliana will be seen again sooner than we think.
- One of the big feedbacks on DA2 Launch's was that you we're given big choices but little consequences, but they want to bring more of that big consequences in their games.
- DA2 won't be have as much as DLC in Origins, they took the feedback on DAO DLC being too short and not standing up with the main quality, so they want to give "less DLC, but the DLC we give is longer and hopefully with much greater quality"
- More Cameos from Origins.
- Potentials to meet Morrigan and the Warden again.
- More Dragon Age 2 stuff? "Soon" i guess we will hear more about after PAX.
- They discuss how DAO was an epic adventure story with a world changing events such as the Blight, and they wanted DA2 to be more close and emotional, such as your home town, your family and voiced protagonist.
- We will likely see new cities like Starkhaven, since i think theres alot of potential with Sebastian's story post-DA2 ending and whatnot, but Starkhaven circle seemed pretty messed up since you got Blood Mages such as Quentin and whatnot escape from there.
- No comments on whetever DA2 will have a full out expansion like DAO did.
- Sandal's propehecy is a tease on what the future obviously holds.

DA2 Legacy Live chat:
- Legacy feedback has been very positive and DA2 team is very pleased about that.
- Legacy Feedback has effected how they will continue the DLC and DA franchise itself.
- It seems they can talk about DA2 DLC mroe in 2 weeks (this video was posted 8 days ago) so lets assume post-PAX?
- Cory boss fight was great, but players felt the AI was too ******ed. I guess some felt it was too much to ask to simply pause + move your companions?
- They want to keep the DLC in way that you can take any companions you wish to at any given time.
- Varric's popularity is obvious, but he can't answer will players get to romance him in the future or not. I think Gaider said both Cassandra and Varric got a role in DA3.
- Party Banter gets praised, such as Legacy has alot of new great party bantering.

 

[El Bastardo]

The new item pack does look rad.

All the rest:

 

[X Knight]

lot's of great info there!!

can't wait to see what more they have planned for the DA franchise.

although, I must admit, I'm now more curious about DA3 than future content for DA2.......lol

 

[iamlegend]

lot's of great info there!!

can't wait to see what more they have planned for the DA franchise.

although, I must admit, I'm now more curious about DA3 than future content for DA2.......lol

Same, though I fully anticipate that they'll crank out at least 2-3 more really neat DLC's for DA2.

About DA3... while I understand that Bioware wants to make each installment it's own individual story, I hope they weave in more of the story lines and characters that we've already come across. Kills me when you spend an entire game learning about these very rich characters that they build... only to have those characters effectively walk off into the sunset never to be heard from again.