Dragon Age 2 Incoming. - Part 1

[Soapy]

Actually, Bioware continued development on the PC version while Edge of Reality worked on the port.

 

[Benstamania]

Playing as a Rogue is ALMOST as fun as a Mage. Still darn fun though, I think I'll play and finish this one before I do a Warrior.

 

[Benstamania]

Playing as a Rogue is ALMOST as fun as a Mage. Still darn fun though, I think I'll play and finish this one before I do a Warrior.

 

[El Bastardo]

Actually, Bioware continued development on the PC version while Edge of Reality worked on the port.

Yes, DLC. The article suggests minor sidequests, which would not be main plot.

Meanwhile, again, according to both Laidlaw and Gaider, the team was already at work on DA2. The game was set for release March 2009 and was delayed to coincide the launch of all systems.

March 2009 ----> March 2011. Two years. Really, this isn't tough.

 

[El Bastardo]

Playing as a Rogue is ALMOST as fun as a Mage. Still darn fun though, I think I'll play and finish this one before I do a Warrior.

You know, I started to get bored of Mage by the end of my playthrough earlier. That said, I'm going to miss that lovely gravity well spell Force Mage has.

I think I'm going to run my next character through without a mage at all.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I remember some comments from Christina Norman that made it sound as if they had worked on ME1 till the very last minute.

You figure ME1 was released in Nov 2007 and ME2 in Jan 2010 so its 2 years and 3 months essentially which seems roughly equivalent to the gap between both Dragon Age's more or less if the game was indeed completed in March.

If it wasn't for the environments (and a few startling bugs) I wouldn't have said it felt rushed but there's so shockingly few areas in this 40+ hour game it just feels as if development got pushed to release the game earlier than they were really ready. I remember Laidlaw made a statement that it was a choice between less content or re-using those levels again and again which kind of sends up a red flag.

 

[El Bastardo]

I think I know the Laidlaw comment you're talking about, but I don't remember the context of it. It needn't necessarily be a red flag. I mean, it is a cause-and-effect type deal: spending more time, funds, and man-power on one thing means less of each of those on another area. I won't jump to conclusions about anything without knowing all the facts, unlike countless fans clearly infinitely more wise than I am, but funds could be the motivating factor here. I've no idea what the DA2 budget was, but I figure ~2 years of development and production to be perfectly suitable. And really, if they're going to shortcut something, shouldn't it be inconsequential dungeon areas than integral content?

I'm done with this, but just understand my point: somehow equating "re-used maps" to "rushed game" in the absence of any incriminating evidence is on the same level of the oft-flaunted language of stupidity as "Mass Effect: Fantasy Land" and, dear me, "DA2 is a rip-off of Baldur's Gate."

I prefer to fight the language of stupidity when I can. It's like my supervillain.

On another note, anyone with DA2 for PC: Modding has begun.

 

[Benstamania]

Wait... people say DA2 is a rip off of Baldur's Gate?!

 

[Speedball]

Just beat it.

Spoiler

Glad to see Bethany return at the end, in a really bad @$$ outfit.
I sided with the Mages, and had Anders live (He was my love interest, couldn't kill him). The only people I didn't have at the end were Sebastian and Isabela (who disappeared with the book). It was pretty epic to see everyone fighting at the end. The battle with Meredith, I felt, was really cool. Liked how the statues came alive.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I'm done with this, but just understand my point: somehow equating "re-used maps" to "rushed game" in the absence of any incriminating evidence is on the same level of the oft-flaunted language of stupidity as "Mass Effect: Fantasy Land" and, dear me, "DA2 is a rip-off of Baldur's Gate."

I prefer to fight the language of stupidity when I can. It's like my supervillain.

On another note, anyone with DA2 for PC: Modding has begun.

Just since as you said the quote is out of context I went and dug it up:

"Eurogamer: Are you happy with the reviews of Dragon Age II?

Mike Laidlaw: I am. What we're seeing is a pretty wide range; I've seen perfects, I've seen less than perfects. There are some things I think that are certainly fair criticisms: the re-use of the levels is something we knew was a bit of a risk, but we wanted to make sure there was more content rather than less "

For me it has more so to do with the sheer volume of re-used maps rather than just their mere existence to the point that even the main quest relies on recycling areas. What I'm getting at is that so much of that content is not even used in supplementary manner, it is the game. Even ME1 with its cut and paste bases had original levels for all of its main quest content and its kind of strange that 4 years later DA2 takes a step back. This is a visual piece of entertainment after all and walking through the same levels over and over for 40+ hours is a legitimate issue.

I totally get that during game development crap happens and they have to make due with what they've got, I don't think that it was done out of laziness or anything like that. If they ran out of money or they ran out of time I obviously can't say with certainty but its clear at some point they were running out of something. The problem is that as the consumer that's not really my problem.

Wait... people say DA2 is a rip off of Baldur's Gate?!

I haven't seen anyone say that. In general the complaint seems to be THEY MADE IT ALL LIKE GOD OF WAR!!!!111!!1!

Which I don't agree with obviously but I imagine the haters would have been happier if it had been in fact a Baldur's Gate rip-off.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

It's true.

 

[Drz]

So what hopes and wishes do people got for Dragon Age 3? I'll post these in a spoiler tag:

Spoiler

While both Sandal and Bodahn are hired by Empress Celene for Orlais, along with King Alistair referencing that Celene has been attempted to get murdered again, Orlesians wanting their old provinces (Ferelden) back and so forth, we have to remember that Orlais (French) and Ferelden (England) are just too damn alike! Yeah accents are different and Orlais enjoys cheese lol.

Now granted the Dwarf Kingdom Kal Sharok is in Orleas and we already have had the pleasure of each DA game showing a new/different side of the Dwarf society, now Kal Sharok has no access to the surface but obviously the game would change that, but how did they survive so long? How are they compared to Orzammar? DA2 provides a ancient thaig that showed Dwarves worshipping the song that came from raw lyrium, this song is probably the Old Gods singing just like the Brood Mothers and Darkspawn in general hear to, but what about magic? Sandal and Dagna are the 1st Dwarf mages out there it seems, unless Sandal truly just is a highly talented enchanter, but even than that sorta is mage alike!

But really what would be the best is Tevinter! Blood Mages! MORE SLAVES! MORE QUNARI! <3 I love the Qunari! Especially considering in some cases the Qun don't even receive the Tome of Koslun (the relic Isabela stole, think about the relic as the 1st edition of the Bible, thats what it is) and even then the Arishok is dead more or less, which would make me assume the new Arishok would be none other than STEN (!!!!) from DAO! After all we already know he will lead the invasion againts humanity. =)

Also here's a image from the epilogue:

Spoiler

Sandal's Prophecy :P : http://www.youtube.com/v/cwa-mKETJW0

 

[Benstamania]

Sandal's going to play a large role soon enough I think.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Sandal is the playable character for DA3.

 

[El Bastardo]

Wait... people say DA2 is a rip off of Baldur's Gate?!

I've seen it said, sadly. It's pretty much just a troll's message, but it's still pretty stupid. It basically just comes down to "lol it's a fantasy game by the same creators with a similar D&D ruleset and isn't as good," but it's still been said.

Just since as you said the quote is out of context I went and dug it up:

I didn't say it was out of context. I said I didn't remember the context. Thank you for posting it, however.

For me it has more so to do with the sheer volume of re-used maps rather than just their mere existence to the point that even the main quest relies on recycling areas. What I'm getting at is that so much of that content is not even used in supplementary manner, it is the game. Even ME1 with its cut and paste bases had original levels for all of its main quest content and its kind of strange that 4 years later DA2 takes a step back. This is a visual piece of entertainment after all and walking through the same levels over and over for 40+ hours is a legitimate issue.

I totally get that during game development crap happens and they have to make due with what they've got, I don't think that it was done out of laziness or anything like that. If they ran out of money or they ran out of time I obviously can't say with certainty but its clear at some point they were running out of something. The problem is that as the consumer that's not really my problem.

And you're certainly entitled to what you think about it. My only gripe has been about what I explained, previously. My opinion differs from yours, and while I've sought to understand yours, I don't think I've ever said it's wrong. (It is, of course, but that's something entirely different. t: I jest, I jest. You know I'm kidding. I love to kid.)

I would disagree that the main quest relies on recycled maps, but the disagreement would come from sentence construction and what I infer to be the intent of the statement. That the majority of the main quest takes place in a single city does not, to me, mean that the main quest relies on recycled maps. I don't see why they would make Kirkwall's construction suddenly and miraculously change every couple years.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I didn't say it was out of context. I said I didn't remember the context. Thank you for posting it, however.

Sorry, I knew that just bad wording on my part.

I would disagree that the main quest relies on recycled maps, but the disagreement would come from sentence construction and what I infer to be the intent of the statement. That the majority of the main quest takes place in a single city does not, to me, mean that the main quest relies on recycled maps. I don't see why they would make Kirkwall's construction suddenly and miraculously change every couple years.

I'm not really talking about Kirkwall (though I'd like it to be bigger) but I mean the cave map, how we always get sent to the same stretch of beach, the mansion map, the sewer map, the warehouse map - things like that.

t: I jest, I jest. You know I'm kidding. I love to kid.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I finished my warrior play-through a couple days ago.

Spoiler

I was playing an uber-goodie-goodie, so I sided with the mages (for Bethany's sake and because Meredith just sounds crazy as s*** no matter how you slice it), I let Anders live but chased him off twice, I (really, really easily) convinced Fenris to return to my side by appealing to his hatred of slavery, I told Sebastian to step off, and Isabela returned with the book but I dueled the Arishok solo because I was unwilling to hand her over (because my character was totally boning her).

 

[Benstamania]

Bethany question...

Spoiler

Ok, so I read that if you take her to the deep roads she has to become a grey warden... But, it appears as if she flat out kicked it in my current playthrough, unless of course the Wardens happen to just find her laying down there...?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Spoiler

She can die if you don't have Anders there to sense other Grey Wardens nearby. Carver, too.

 

[GhostPoet]

What does console gaming have to do with anything?

Developers only have so much to work with on a console. There's a lot more hardware restrictions they have to deal with. If Dragon Age 2 had been a PC exlusive there would not be a need to re-use anything.

 

[Benstamania]

Spoiler

She can die if you don't have Anders there to sense other Grey Wardens nearby. Carver, too.

Well crap. Looks like I'll have reason to play through again with a Warrior after all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Consoles are also standardized platforms, so there are far fewer bugs and less testing for issues arising from the myriad hardware/software combinations PCs might have.

 

[Benstamania]

....And no one would have bought it.

 

[Soapy]

To be taken with a heaping spoonful of salt:

Well, nobody asked for my opinion, but here it is. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a senior designer at BioWare but I did not work on DA1 or DA2.

fake edit: so I basically just spent an hour writing a magnum opus defending DA2. I deleted it after reading it back to myself and seeing a long list of excuses. Bottom line is, the game had a one-year production cycle and no amount of clever development can disguise this fact.

I will say that I am in awe of what they did from a technical standpoint- I simply cannot fathom how they accomplished as much as they did with that deadline. Most dev cycles of a game this size take 4-5 years; DA1 took nearly 7. You also have to factor in that there was no recycling from the first game and between pre-production and the time it takes to QA and gold-push a game you can lose a few months. BioWare games can be even worse about this because of the unusual amount of story variables involved. In essence they produced the vast majority of DA2 in about eight months. loving amazing.

That said, BioWare stands in a tough position. Their highest rated game, Mass Effect 2, got a metacritic score of 96 which is almost impossibly high. That game barely cracked 2 million copies sold. Compare this to the XBOX-only sales of Fallout 3 (3.5 million), Oblivion (3.5 mil), Fable 2 (4 mil), Red Dead Redemption (4.2 mil), Assassin's Creed (5 mil), forget BLOPS (12 mil). Dragon Age sold roughly the same as Mass 2, and both games cost and took about the same amount of time to produce as anything else on this list. So you have to wonder, why are BioWare game selling so much less with such higher quality?

Anyway, I'll let you come to your own conclusions about the state of Dragon Age 2 which, incidentally, had almost exactly the same first-week sales as DA1. I will say, however, that once I stopped punishing the game for the sins of its fathers I ended up really enjoying it.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=223#post389494745

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I think the majority of Baldurs Gate fans probably care very little about Hollywood production values and would have probably been quite happy with a cheaper, lower budget top down isometric game akin to Torchlight.


Edit: "So you have to wonder, why are BioWare game selling so much less with such higher quality?"

Wow, that seems abit on the arrogant side.
I guess that 2% - 4% massive metacritic diffrence with different review counts from different reviewers makes them the alpha and the omega.