Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell - Part 2

[Matt Mortem]

Best descriptor I have after seeing this movie is lukewarm. It was lukewarm. Neither good nor bad. Neither hot nor cold. It simply existed.

And as for the casting woes:

Spoiler

They would have been a lot better off if they didn't make white washing a ****ING PLOT POINT. Not only did they change her race in casting,
they purposefully changed it in the plot. That's madness. I get that ScarJo sells better in China and China paid for a huge chunk of the movie, but damn.
Talk about courting controversy.

 

[harlequinade]

Can someone explain to me what was up

Spoiler

with Pitt's idea that the network of humans would allow him to live on? How exactly? I have no idea what the hell was that about

 

[OutOfBoose]

And as for the casting woes:

It's just laughable.

 

[harlequinade]

Best descriptor I have after seeing this movie is lukewarm. It was lukewarm. Neither good nor bad. Neither hot nor cold. It simply existed.

And as for the casting woes:

Spoiler

They would have been a lot better off if they didn't make white washing a ****ING PLOT POINT. Not only did they change her race in casting,
they purposefully changed it in the plot. That's madness. I get that ScarJo sells better in China and China paid for a huge chunk of the movie, but damn.
Talk about courting controversy.

I just couldn't believe it happened. Were they so stupid they didn't know they are just handing ammo to those who will point out whitewashing or did they simply not care?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Probably both. It's clear that the filmmakers are tone-deaf and oblivious of the movie's effects on the audience. This is a total 180 from the original anime, which read the world events of the time and provided metaphorical and philosophical commentary about losing our humanity to technology and the dangers of having a world wide web.

Now they just want to make a few bucks...damn anyone who gets in the way.

 

[mikeboydus]

Can someone explain to me what was up

Spoiler

with Pitt's idea that the network of humans would allow him to live on? How exactly? I have no idea what the hell was that about

It was a poorly developed reference to Stand Alone Complex.

Spoiler

In SAC, Kuze is trying to create a utopian gestalt hive mind refuge for millions of refugees in cyberspace where they would become a sort of digital collective consciousness free of their physical bodies. SAC also shows people being used as a living network in Solid State Society, where a figure known as the Puppetmaster uses thousands of kidnapped children to preserve his consciousness after his physical body died.

The basic idea is that a digitized consciousness would survive by hijacking cyberbrains like a sentient virus, a kind of digital spiritual possession made possible by advances in cybernetics.

 

[kguillou]

Did anyone else feel like the PG13 rating really hurt the movie? I felt it especially during the action scenes which felt so damn tame. I think an R rating coulsvw added extra punch and a visceral touch to it.

 

[DorkyFresh]

PG-13 isn't really an issue. You can get a way with a lot if you know what you're doing. The Dark Knight and Casino Royale are great examples of gritty PG-13 films that feel R-rated. Besides, aside from Motoko Kusanagi appearing nude in the original anime, there's really not much about it that's R-rated.

As for the action scenes, it seems like Rupert Sanders doesn't really understand what makes a good action sequence. He uses too much slowmo, which slows down the pace of an action sequence and from what I've seen he also uses quick cuts, which is a big no-no when creating cinematic action.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The Dark Knight doesn't feel R-rated. It's dark in substance, but feels sterile when it comes to violence. But Casino Royale - oh yes. Casino Royale is probably one of the finest example how you can make a PG-13 flick that feels far more violent than it looks.

As for GitS '95 and Innocence, while they're rated R, they don't feel like R-rated films. Synthetic bodies of nearly all characters compensate.

 

[2kt09]

PG-13 isn't really an issue. You can get a way with a lot if you know what you're doing. The Dark Knight and Casino Royale are great examples of gritty PG-13 films that feel R-rated. Besides, aside from Motoko Kusanagi appearing nude in the original anime, there's really not much about it that's R-rated.

Exceptions not the rule.
As soon as you plan to be PG-13, expect to be neutered, especially if you're not a director with much clout.
GitS wasn't ever something that was intended for your 4 quadrant moviegoer as is the case with most scifi dramas.

 

[DorkyFresh]

The Dark Knight doesn't feel R-rated. It's dark in substance, but feels sterile when it comes to violence. But Casino Royale - oh yes. Casino Royale is probably one of the finest example how you can make a PG-13 flick that feels far more violent than it looks.

Every non-geek I tell is surprised whenever I mention that The Dark Knight isn't R-rated. Two-Face's face, alone, borderlines the R-rating.

Exceptions not the rule.
As soon as you plan to be PG-13, expect to be neutered, especially if you're not a director with much clout.
GitS wasn't ever something that was intended for your 4 quadrant moviegoer as is the case with most scifi dramas.

But Ghost in the Shell should be an exception, no? I definitely agree that GitS wasn't meant to appeal to everyone but I still feel that the PG-13 rating has very little to do with this movie's issues.

 

[mikeboydus]

Did anyone else feel like the PG13 rating really hurt the movie? I felt it especially during the action scenes which felt so damn tame. I think an R rating coulsvw added extra punch and a visceral touch to it.

It was a very weak PG-13, barely any blood or strong language. Other than two very short suggestive scenes where the Major is seen from behind in her thermoptic camo, the film is very tame. Most of the Marvel films even seem more violent.

In the current era of John Wick, Logan and Deadpool, I believe a hard R from graphic violence, similar to Dredd, due to high powered anti-cyborg weapons and some brief nudity would have worked in the film's favor.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah and i think it so depends what kind of action your doing too. GiTS had the same problem Expendables 3 had, lots of gunfire action but because they can't show blood or impact wounds or recoil from impact, it feels completely sterile.

 

[2kt09]

But Ghost in the Shell should be an exception, no? I definitely agree that GitS wasn't meant to appeal to everyone but I still feel that the PG-13 rating has very little to do with this movie's issues.

Not when the IP doesn't have much of an audience.
That's the other thing regarding the movies you brought up.

If the studio aimed for an R, at least which ever filmmakers they would've went with would have understood what they can now delve into.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I'm not against an R-rating for the film, in fact I would've preferred it...but I stand firm in my belief that what makes GitS unique and special aren't specific to an R-rating. They could have pulled off a successful PG-13 GitS movie with the right filmmakers in charge. Also...R-rating doesn't always make a movie better. There are plenty of bad R-rated films.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Rating is rarely a factor that can really hurt artistic intent. In vast majority of cases you can always work around limitations. I wish the biggest problem of this film was PG-13.

 

[TWayneP]

And as for the casting woes:

It's just laughable.

I just couldn't believe it happened. Were they so stupid they didn't know they are just handing ammo to those who will point out whitewashing or did they simply not care?

Man you guys just don't get it do you? The whole point was that it's a commentary on America "whitewashing" a Japanese product. They weren't oblivious to this at all, and made it apart of the story which is stroke of genius, and that I guess only a few people actually understand, or care about. Hanka is the definition of an americanized corporation trying to take control & make everything in their image, that was purposefully done. The heart and soul or ghost of those wronged by Hanka find a way to fight back for what is right. That was like... the whole ****ing point by the end of the film, with Kuzo, Motoko's mother and the diverse members of Section 9 saving the day lol.

This is why I can't talk to people who haven't seen the damn film. All of you guys that constantly post here over and over haven't seen it. There's no use in holding any type of discussion with you.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Man you guys just don't get it do you? The whole point was that it's a commentary on America "whitewashing" a Japanese product. They weren't oblivious to this at all, and made it apart of the story which is stroke of genius, and that I guess only a few people actually understand, or care about. Hanka is the definition of an americanized corporation trying to take control & make everything in their image, that was purposefully done. The heart and soul or ghost of those wronged by Hanka find a way to fight back for what is right. That was like... the whole ****ing point by the end of the film, with Kuzo, Motoko's mother and the diverse members of Section 9 saving the day lol.

This is why I can't talk to people who haven't seen the damn film. All of you guys that constantly post here over and over haven't seen it. There's no use in holding any type of discussion with you.

Wait a minute... Wait a minute. They white-wash the Japanese property so they could make a commentary on that?

 

[j0ke5ta]

replied to the wrong person. delete this post.

 

[Darepool]

 

[j0ke5ta]

Can someone explain to me what was up

Spoiler

with Pitt's idea that the network of humans would allow him to live on? How exactly? I have no idea what the hell was that about

Spoiler

I would have liked to seen this dived into more at the end of the film. More like the original material where he tried to take her over and then they left it kinda ambiguous as to how much of her was him or her kinda like the original ending.

Plus I was a little irked about how he ended up being a victim instead of the lines being more blurred about everything.

I also thought they had a missed opportunity by not destroying her body in the final fight and then giving her a new shell in the end scene with a new actress to appease these "white washing" critics on these forums or the internet (even though I was fine with what they did and think they could do that in a sequel film if they wanted.)

Then insert a new Japanese actress with the new shell so people would shut up about what I consider a non issue to start with.

I kinda thought when Kuze crawled up to her at the end he would pull out a cord and try to connect with her there and give the whole spill about living on in her ghost like he eventually did without doing that.

I also think there is some story points that if they can get a sequel can be revisited or expanded on to get this closer to what people want and build off of this base they started with.

One of those being Kuze. He died off with a comment that you could interpret one way in this film but if the filmmakers are smart could be explored more in the sequel.

Because of that comment you mentioned above about Kuze saying he could live on in his system. Remember the start of the film Kuze did infiltrate the Major during her deep dive.

With a vague comment about how he would live on in her ghost at the end. You really could still dig deep into some of the stuff they didn't explore. That is if this can warrant a sequel and filmmakers are smart enough to do so and not just move on to "the next thing to adapt".

You could do a sequel where we see Kuze start to pop up through the Major or her starting to glitch between him and her. Then to find out that when he hacked her at the start of the first film that he did manage to get his ghost inside her and that was what he meant by living on in her ghost. Then see a course correct where we see something happen to her similar to the end of the first film.

This film had its flaws and it didn't go as deep as I wanted but I think it left itself open for corrections or things to make it better without just washing it aside like everyone seems to think it needs to be and casting it off as another bad adaptation.

Which it's not. It's probably one of the best anime/manga adaptations by Hollywood to date. Was it perfect? No but it's no where near as awful as critics or people make of it.

It is definitely no where near as bad as Snow White and the Huntsman which I fell asleep through when I went with my family to see it. Its a good to ok film with flaws.

It was more of a minor trip here or there rather than falling flat on your face adaptation of a film. Just like some Marvel & DC US comics adaptations have had and also had the 2nd opportunities to course correct and fix any mistakes or oversights in their first version.

I really hope this does well overseas and gets enough overall box office to get a sequel and make money because it really isn't as deserving of the big backlash it seems to be getting.

 

[Teelie]

I liked it but it definitely fell short of where it should have been. Almost all of the complaints about casting are addressed in the movie (though obviously no one cares about that) and it did feel somewhat flat and missing something.

The story was predictable even if you had never read or saw any of the past source material but it was still no worse than the 10,000th time we've seen Batman, Spider-Man or Superman's origin story rehashed again.

I can see why the general audience isn't too interested in it. I was interested in it and it bored me a few times with the pacing and story points.

 

[Sithborg]

Best descriptor I have after seeing this movie is lukewarm. It was lukewarm. Neither good nor bad. Neither hot nor cold. It simply existed.

And as for the casting woes:

Spoiler

They would have been a lot better off if they didn't make white washing a ****ING PLOT POINT. Not only did they change her race in casting,
they purposefully changed it in the plot. That's madness. I get that ScarJo sells better in China and China paid for a huge chunk of the movie, but damn.
Talk about courting controversy.

See, there was a chance to have a meaningful purpose and message with that. But, it is just another kernel of a idea that they don't bother to explore in order to get to the next "ripped from the anime" sequence.

Spoiler

I like the idea of Hanta white washing their victims for a good product launch. You know you dropped the ball when the new Robocop handles such a topic of turning people into a focus grouped product better.

All the dropped balls make me sad. Some good ideas that would work within the lore, but hamstrung by the need to copy what has come before.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm not sure if there's an interesting way to do that without angering certain people.

The fact is that Major is a badass and a heroic character. Regardless of her origins.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I never got an impression that Major was about heroism. She's more like an adrenaline junkie, as well as harsh, hot-tempered and impulsive.