Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell

[culver3vlr22]

According to you it's a problem. IMHO, it's not a problem.

The problem is that Hollywood as a structure is stubborn about these things and won't attempt to widen the pool for these properties that specifically call for it.

But the movie is more than likely based in Japan. They don't speak English in Japan. Why would we want an Asian actress and it based in Japan of they speak a completely different language. That's idiotic

 

[DarkKnight]

So were you all pissed when Godzilla 2014 was based in the US? had US actors and only like one maybe two Asian actors? Were you mad that Godzilla himself was a US creation and not a Asian actor in costume?

 

[TheVileOne]

But the movie is more than likely based in Japan. They don't speak English in Japan. Why would we want an Asian actress and it based in Japan of they speak a completely different language. That's idiotic

The movie is set in the future in a world where things have become cybernetic. People can deep dive into cyber-space and become trippy digital avatars. They can converse through basically through their thoughts with cyber-brains. They can converse without words through their cyberlinks. Memories can be recorded their their cyber augments. Thermonuclear camoflage essentially grants invisibility. Cybernetics have become so advanced that you can insert someone's "ghost" into a complete cyborg body.

People can read entire books in sections over the web. So it wouldn't be hard to believe that the advancements in technology make it easier to learn other languages.

In other words, this is a future where speaking English is easier due to advancements in cyber technology. It's like in the Matrix. You can learn any skill in seconds by having it uploaded straight into your head.

 

[culver3vlr22]

The movie is set in the future in a world where things have become cybernetic. People can deep dive into cyber-space and become trippy digital avatars. They can converse through basically through their thoughts with cyber-brains. They can converse without words through their cyberlinks. Memories can be recorded their their cyber augments. Thermonuclear camoflage essentially grants visibility. Cybernetics have become so advanced that you can insert someone's "ghost" into a complete cyborg body.

People can read entire books in sections over the web. So it wouldn't be hard to believe that the advancements in technology make it easier to learn other languages.

In other words, this is a future where speaking English is easier due to advancements in cyber technology. It's like in the Matrix. You can learn any skill in seconds by having it uploaded straight into your head.

I'd be ok with that if the English language wasn't the hardest to learn.

And if everything is so cybernetic why not just polar express this and make it all cgi? Or would ppl be mad scarjo is voicing an Asian role?


If the manga is in Japanese than the movie should be in Japanese

 

[Iron_Stark]

Nothing I've said in this thread has been a contradiction. Once again, changing a white character to a minority character does not have the same implications nor is it comparable to changing a minority character to a white character. I think I've explained why more than thoroughly in this thread. At this point, if you still don't understand than you're being willfully ignorant and don't want to accept what's sitting in front of all of us.

How are they not contradictions? Race swapping is race swapping, plain and simple.

Explain how they have different implications?

Like I said when I see you at the Thor forums saying how a black woman shouldn't play a blonde hair blue eyed Nordic goddess with an Icelandic or German name, then I'll agree with you on this.

Until then, I'll accept this casting so long as the Valkyrie casting is deemed ok.

 

[Logan0327]

I don't see how that's a problem. So you are basically saying that white moviegoers won't see a movie with an Asian lead just because they are Asian which is nonsense.

when you want tax breaks from say shooting in spain and you have an asian lead dont expect to get it

not about the audience but the system it is easier for studios to market a film worldwide with a white lead like say a chris hemsworth than an asian lead

 

[Mad Ones]

How are they not contradictions? Race swapping is race swapping, plain and simple.

Explain how they have different implications?

Like I said when I see you at the Thor forums saying how a black woman shouldn't play a blonde hair blue eyed Nordic goddess with an Icelandic or German name, then I'll agree with you on this.

Until then, I'll accept this casting so long as the Valkyrie casting is deemed ok.

They're exactly the same if you ignore culture and society (ie the inequality in power relations around gender, race, class, sexuality, etc). Which is apparently easier for certain people to do than others...

 

[Logan0327]

How are they not contradictions? Race swapping is race swapping, plain and simple.

Explain how they have different implications?

Like I said when I see you at the Thor forums saying how a black woman shouldn't play a blonde hair blue eyed Nordic goddess with an Icelandic or German name, then I'll agree with you on this.

Until then, I'll accept this casting so long as the Valkyrie casting is deemed ok.

dont expect to get an real answer people have actually said a white character being race swapped is called "progress"

 

[Neno_Kos]

Not sure why we are still arguing about "shell" in movie called ghost in the shell where topic is all about "ghost".

 

[SuperT]

They're exactly the same if you ignore culture and society (ie the inequality in power relations around gender, race, class, sexuality, etc). Which is apparently easier for certain people to do than others...

It would behoove a lot of people here to take a few classes on race relations and power structures.

 

[sweetre15]

It isn't about minorities stopping people from seeing movies. That isn't the issue. The issue is how you get people interested in a film that cost $100m plus to make. Right now, the key is brand recognition, though stars can still get movies made. Again I say, look at what happened with Lucy because of Scarjo.

Ghost in the Shell is not Jungle Book or Life of Pi. There is no worldwide nostalgia here built on source material or a beloved Disney flick. If something has the proper brand recognition, it works. But even the Fast series has been led by two white males, though apparently Vin doesn't know his origins on his father's side.

Again I ask, if properties like Ghost in the Shell or Akira are viable, why have the Japanese studios not made them?

Because they don't have the same resources as Hollywood? Nor is their film industry as big as Hollywood

But if they weren't viable, Why is Hollywood interested in adapting it and why had Ghost in the Shell influenced Hollywood films like the Matrix?

This whole "it's not viable" thing isn't a one way street

The thing is if the movie is well promoted and looks appealing people are going to be interested.

A property like Ghost in the Shell has that going for it by default.

 

[TheVileOne]

when you want tax breaks from say shooting in spain and you have an asian lead dont expect to get it

not about the audience but the system it is easier for studios to market a film worldwide with a white lead like say a chris hemsworth than an asian lead

This is the problem though. There's always these financial excuses.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Sigh.

 

[dark_b]

Max Landis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=747cvo8Lkjw

 

[Black Narcissus]

I'd rather have someone throw poop on my face then listen to Max Landis.

 

[chaseter]

I love the double standard of race 'enthusiasts'. They want source material changed to suit minorities more but aren't happy when source material is changed to suit another race. It's Demographics. Boycott Bollywood for their homogenous cinema contributions to the world. That new Godzilla movie sure has a lot of Asians in it.

 

[Mad Ones]

Double standards only exist if conditions and power are equal. Why don't people seem to consider that?

 

[Monochron]

That's because I'm a purist, and you were in the wrong on Iron Fist . And everyone complaining about Iron Fist is in the wrong.

Iron Fist is a decision where they cast a white actor to play a white character but suddenly there was a vocal minority of fans that called for an Asian actor to play Iron Fist because of martial arts and oriental mysticism and stuff.

This is a case of a Japanese property, a Japanese character with a Japanese name set in Japan and primarily about Japan with a white American actor cast as the lead Japanese character. IMHO this is decidedly different than what happened with Iron Fist. This is also an established franchise that originated in Japan over 25 years ago.

Nope. t:

 

[DarkKnight]

Double standards only exist if conditions and power are equal. Why don't people seem to consider that?

Care to elaborate on this?

 

[Sithborg]

Again I ask, if properties like Ghost in the Shell or Akira are viable, why have the Japanese studios not made them?

The Japanese film industry is weird. They don't really have the infrastructure to make world wide global releases. I mean, Godzilla Resurgence is likely the first movie they are making with an eye toward a global release in a good long time.

As for the casting, I am waiting to get more info. If it retains the Japanese setting, and the Japanese department, then I can easily see the problems. But, we really, really have to see how they present the world. I can easily see them presenting a culture similar to San Fransokyo as see in Big Hero 6. A bit more multicultural. Though, that alone will set off the purists, because Ghost in the Shell is "quintessential Japan".

 

[Mad Ones]

Care to elaborate on this?

I explained it in the last page but you really didn't want to consider it. Working against a system (by race changing white characters, for example) where whiteness is dominant and privileged is not a "double standard"; it's both a protest against that system and a consequence of that system. The source material of minority driven projects matters because they provide opportunities for increased diversity and representation. The source material for projects with white characters/white leads perpetuates all white casts, which reinforces whiteness forever until a white character is race-swapped. The two scenarios are not the same and equal, which needs to be the case for a "double standard".

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh ok I gotcha. Completely disagree. But thank your for explaining what you meant.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because they don't have the same resources as Hollywood? Nor is their film industry as big as Hollywood

But if they weren't viable, Why is Hollywood interested in adapting it and why had Ghost in the Shell influenced Hollywood films like the Matrix?

This whole "it's not viable" thing isn't a one way street

The thing is if the movie is well promoted and looks appealing people are going to be interested.

A property like Ghost in the Shell has that going for it by default.

They just made another Godzilla. One which of course won't make the same kind of money the last US one did. They simply don't think they can make the money to justify making it in Japan. Most don't even know Ghost of in the Shell across the world. It is very geeky, very niche across the world. Dragon Ball is one of, if not the most successful anime of all time. The movie was horrible, but you'd think the built in fanbase would have got it a bit more money then it did, a bit like how BvS did while still being horrible. Didn't happen. Japanese anime, outside of Pokemon, doesn't have that kind if pull.

Ghost influencing the Matrix, is no different then Kurosawa influencing Lucas. But that doesn't suddenly mean his films were going to make Star Wars money in the West.

 

[Sithborg]

I explained it in the last page but you really didn't want to consider it. Working against a system (by race changing white characters, for example) where whiteness is dominant and privileged is not a "double standard"; it's both a protest against that system and a consequence of that system. The source material of minority driven projects matters because they provide opportunities for increased diversity and representation. The source material for projects with white characters/white leads perpetuates all white casts, which reinforces whiteness forever until a white character is race-swapped. The two scenarios are not the same and equal, which needs to be the case for a "double standard".

What makes it a minority driven project though? Because the source material is foreign? Of course the source material is Japanese centric, because it comes from Japan. Not every nation has quite the diversity that we have. And when adapting material from other cultures, things have to change. Because some things just don't make sense to be in a Western movie. This may offend purists, but it is no worse than other nations/cultures taking something from us and adapting stuff to fit their culture more.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's possible to show prejudice or bias against white people, but if you don't know that racism is a structure of oppression then we probably shouldn't be having this conversation. Isolated non structural incidences of the oppressed showing bias have no impacts on those who are invested in whiteness and benefit from it.

That is not how racism works. Sorry, try again.

Yup! Whiteness is in the structure. Hollywood has crafted a system where things don't get made without whiteness.

You do realize Hollywood isn't the only place to get movies made right?