The Force Awakens Early Star Wars 7 Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

My 32 year old sister doesn't care for Abrams version of Trek either and she acts like nobody else does just because she doesn't.

Hardcore Trek fans, whom don't like the new version of Trek, quite frankly live in a land of make believe. They ignore that Star Trek was in a coffin with maggots crawling out of it's eyes before Abrams film brought the franchise back to life.
Oh I remember our discussions on the Spidey boards.

Like I'm just the type of person who doesn't like to ignore reality...well mostly I try to be that person. I dislike certain popular things but I don't act like they aren't popular just because I don't like them. I like films with mixed receptions but I don't try to pretend that those films didn't have that reception. Obviously TASM 2 regardless of one's opinions of it did kill TASM franchise. Obviously WB was disappointed with Man of Steel's box office and reception I believe. I'm not going to pretend differently just to make myself or anyone else feel better.

No one has to like or dislike JJ's Trek. But what it did for the franchise is undeniable. Trek's fanbase has never been that big. A great fanbase, a loyal one, but it isn't Star Wars. They don't have money to burn.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

Look at the adjusted numbers. Trek was all but dead both on tv and in movie theaters. JJ made the most success film by a good margin and made it relevant again. Heck, arguably made it more mainstream then it ever has been.

TASM2 situation was hilarious. Like what you like, but be honest about the business side of things.

 

[titansupes]

It was ST'09 that made me think "Man, imagine if the PT were like that, or if they did a Sequel Trilogy?! If only..."

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No one has to like or dislike JJ's Trek. But what it did for the franchise is undeniable. Trek's fanbase has never been that big. A great fanbase, a loyal one, but it isn't Star Wars. They don't have money to burn.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

Look at the adjusted numbers. Trek was all but dead both on tv and in movie theaters. JJ made the most success film by a good margin and made it relevant again. Heck, arguably made it more mainstream then it ever has been.

TASM2 situation was hilarious. Like what you like, but be honest about the business side of things.

Exactly he brought Trek back to life and into the mainstream. He set the template for Mission Impossible movies in the 2010's. Nobody has to like MI 3 or Trek 09 but those things were done, I'm talking about facts, not feelings.

 

[spider-neil]

We are talking to the person who thought TASM2 didn't sink that franchise.

Spider-Man 3 sunk the Spider-Man franchise. TASM2 simply finished off the remains.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Exactly he brought Trek back to life and into the mainstream. He set the template for Mission Impossible movies in the 2010's. Nobody has to like MI 3 or Trek 09 but those things were done, I'm talking about facts, not feelings.

You don't have to like TFA, but to claim it hasn't brought a life back to Star Wars that hasn't been seen since before the prequels would be a lie. But Lucas and TFN trolls can't help themselves.

Spider-Man 3 sunk the Spider-Man franchise. TASM2 simply finished off the remains.

Spider-Man 4 and 5 would have made far more money then TASM and TASM2. It wasn't Fantastic Four bad, but the series was clearly rejected by the general public and critics alike. The only thing that saved it from being completely embarrassing was the expanded overseas market.

 

[spider-neil]

JJ definitely breathed new life into the Trek franchise that had grown irrelevant. So yes, 'technically' he saved the franchise, but creatively? Thematically? UGH!
He is a Star Wars fan and it shows. Totally doesn't 'get' Trek.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

JJ definitely breathed new life into the Trek franchise that had grown irrelevant. So yes, 'technically' he saved the franchise, but creatively? Thematically? UGH!
He is a Star Wars fan and it shows. Totally doesn't 'get' Trek.

Well apparently what Trek was, wasn't paying the bills. I watched the original series, some The Next Generation and saw the movies growing up. I enjoyed it a bit, but JJ actually made me care. He made others who found nothing of value in Star Trek care. He clearly knew what he was doing.

 

[spider-neil]

You don't have to like TFA, but to claim it hasn't brought a life back to Star Wars that hasn't been seen since before the prequels would be a lie. But Lucas and TFN trolls can't help themselves.


Spider-Man 4 and 5 would have made far more money then TASM and TASM2. It wasn't Fantastic Four bad, but the series was clearly rejected by the general public and critics alike. The only thing that saved it from being completely embarrassing was the expanded overseas market.

Spider-Man 4 and 5 wouldn't have made more money than TASM and TASM2 if the new movies had knocked it out of the park like BB and TDK.
If SM3 was decent (just decent!) I have no doubt it would have made a billion and people would be looking forward to SM4 but it was so bad Sony tried to distance themselves from it but made a shockingly bad creative choice to retell the origin.

Basically, SM3 was the beginning of the end. TASM2 'was' the end.

Going back to JJ, I will say that TFA 'feels' like SW but the JJ Trek movies do no 'feel' like ST. But this is just my opinion.
I'm actually reading that some hardcore SW fans (which I admit I am not) feel that TFA doesn't feel like SW. I'm seriously confused by this opinion, but hey, who would know more than hardcore SW fans?

 

[spider-neil]

Well apparently what Trek was, wasn't paying the bills. I watched the original series, some The Next Generation and saw the movies growing up. I enjoyed it a bit, but JJ actually made me care. He made others who found nothing of value in Star Trek care. He clearly knew what he was doing.

I guess paying the bills is the bottom line but was Trek ever 'really' about making the most money?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Spider-Man 4 and 5 wouldn't have made more money than TASM and TASM2 if the new movies had knocked it out of the park like BB and TDK.
If SM3 was decent (just decent!) I have no doubt it would have made a billion and people would be looking forward to SM4 but it was so bad Sony tried to distance themselves from it but made a shockingly bad creative choice to retell the origin.

Basically, SM3 was the beginning of the end. TASM2 'was' the end.

Going back to JJ, I will say that TFA 'feels' like SW but the JJ Trek movies do no 'feel' like ST. But this is just my opinion.
I'm actually reading that some hardcore SW fans (which I admit I am not) feel that TFA doesn't feel like SW. I'm seriously confused by this opinion, but hey, who would know more than hardcore SW fans?

The movies being rejected for their quality doesn't change that they killed the Sony only franchise model. Spider-Man 3 is bad, really bad, but it is a fonder memory to the general public then TASM or TASM2. Also, I thought you loved those movies? What happened?

The "hardcore" Star Wars fans are George lovers, who reject anything he doesn't have a hand in. These are the people who subscribe to the Ring Theory, but then scream about TFA being a clone. That say Jar Jar is a great character, but call Finn a racial stereotype. I am not joking about that last one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I guess paying the bills is the bottom line but was Trek ever 'really' about making the most money?

Who said the most money? All these series have to be financially viable, or they can't exist. If you don't pay the bills, you disappear. Trek didn't disappear because of creative reasons. JJ gave it a second chance.

 

[Snow Queen]

The movies being rejected for their quality doesn't change that they killed the Sony only franchise model. Spider-Man 3 is bad, really bad, but it is a fonder memory to the general public then TASM or TASM2.

The "hardcore" Star Wars fans are George lovers, who reject anything he doesn't have a hand in. These are the people who subscribe to the Ring Theory, but then scream about TFA being a clone. That say Jar Jar is a great character, but call Finn a racial stereotype. I am not joking about that last one.

Don't leave out that child Anakin is a better character with a better arc than Rey.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Don't leave out that child Anakin is a better character with a better arc than Rey.

They don't say that sarcastically Snow. Plus she would have been a better character with a Y chromosome.

 

[spider-neil]

The movies being rejected for their quality doesn't change that they killed the Sony only franchise model. Spider-Man 3 is bad, really bad, but it is a fonder memory to the general public then TASM or TASM2.

The "hardcore" Star Wars fans are George lovers, who reject anything he doesn't have a hand in. These are the people who subscribe to the Ring Theory, but then scream about TFA being a clone. That say Jar Jar is a great character, but call Finn a racial stereotype. I am not joking about that last one.

*I really like TFA so I am just playing devil's advocate*

You can't deny that regardless of what you felt about the prequels they were new and fresh and actually 'attempted' to tackle some unanswered questions and 'attempted' some world building to make the SW universe seem bigger. For the record I hate the prequels.

TFA almost follows ANH beat for beat and in some cases shot for shot.
It also makes the universe seem small as seemingly all the important players are related.

But all of that is by the by as this is a box office thread and it is possible that TFA will go on to be the biggest box office hit of all time, usurping Avatar which I didn't think was possible.

 

[spider-neil]

Who said the most money? All these series have to be financially viable, or they can't exist. If you don't pay the bills, you disappear. Trek didn't disappear because of creative reasons. JJ gave it a second chance.

I just wish he gave Trek a second chance but with social commentary like what Trek was always about rather than a Star Wars lite movie that 'happened' to have characters called Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

*I really like TFA so I am just playing devil's advocate*

You can't deny that regardless of what you felt about the prequels they were new and fresh and actually 'attempted' to tackle some unanswered questions and 'attempted' some world building to make the SW universe seem bigger. For the record I hate the prequels.

TFA almost follows ANH beat for beat and in some cases shot for shot.
It also makes the universe seem small as seemingly all the important players are related.

But all of that is by the by as this is a box office thread and it is possible that TFA will go on to be the biggest box office hit of all time, usurping Avatar which I didn't think was possible.

There is nothing new and fresh about the prequels. Nothing. I read and watch plenty of science fiction. The only thing it attempted to do was act a stage for Lucas to test out his tech. The lack of story and characters show this.

That is a flat out untrue about TFA and Star Wars. And as someone who has seen the latter over a 100 times in his life time, and seen TFA three times already, such an argument clearly misses the nuance of both stories and their characters. Also, all the important players are clearly not related.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just wish he gave Trek a second chance but with social commentary like what Trek was always about rather than a Star Wars lite movie that 'happened' to have characters called Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

Both films clearly had social commentary. Into Darkness was heavy with it.

 

[spider-neil]

There is nothing new and fresh about the prequels. Nothing. I read and watch plenty of science fiction. The only thing it attempted to do was act a stage for Lucas to test out his tech. The lack of story and characters show this.

That is a flat out lie about TFA and Star Wars. And as someone who has seen the latter over a 100 times in his life time, and seen TFA three times already, such an argument clearly misses the nuance of both stories and their characters. Also, all the important players are clearly not related.

Trade federations, trade embargoes, clones, armies, wars, the Jedi in their prime. Full cities. Multiple new worlds. Look, all that stuff was boring as **** but it was new and fresh. 'I'd' never seen any of that stuff in SW before.

Betcha Rey is related to an important character in SW.

 

[spider-neil]

Both films clearly had social commentary. Into Darkness was heavy with it.

ID did have social commentary to be fair but I distracted with it being a disgraceful WoK rip off. I'm being unfair on ID because I will admit I was actually loving the first half of the movie and thinking 'we're back on track' but the 3rd act... Oh dear, JJ. OH DEAR! And that is all I can think about when I recollect on ID now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Trade federations, trade embargoes, clones, armies, wars, the Jedi in their prime. Full cities. Multiple new worlds. Look, all that stuff was boring as **** but it was new and fresh. 'I'd' never seen any of that stuff in SW before.

Betcha Rey is related to an important character in SW.

Of course there were clones, there had to be. Same for the Jedi. The problem with the Trade Federation and embargoes is that nothing happens with them. They function no differently then any villain. They are just called something else. In the end, they are puppets of the Emperor.

Also, TFA has multiple worlds, not one old one. Every single prequel flick ended up on Tatooine. Plus they used Coruscant like crazy.

[BLACKOUT]If Rey turns out to be of Skywalker blood, that leaves Snoke, Finn, Poe, Hux, Phasma, and Maz as unrelated from the new characters.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

ID did have social commentary to be fair but I distracted with it being a disgraceful WoK rip off. I'm being unfair on ID because I will admit I was actually loving the first half of the movie and thinking 'we're back on track' but the 3rd act... Oh dear, JJ. OH DEAR! And that is all I can think about when I recollect on ID now.

Into Darkness really doesn't have much in common with WoK outside of Khan and a very specific scene. Outside of that, it is quite different. Now whether you like it or not is up to you. I know plenty who don't like it. I am personally a big fan outside of that horrible reuse of that scene.

 

[spider-neil]

Of course there were clones, there had to be. Same for the Jedi. The problem with the Trade Federation and embargoes is that nothing happens with them. They function no differently then any villain. They are just called something else. In the end, they are puppets of the Emperor.

Also, TFA has multiple worlds, not one old one. Every single prequel flick ended up on Tatooine. Plus they used Coruscant like crazy.

I'm not defending the prequels, BTW. I'm just saying why the hard core fans are possibly drawn to the prequels and may feel TFA doesn't feel like SW.

I will just leave this here, I mostly like all of JJ's movies but I don't 'love' any of them. They are a little by the numbers for me. My favourite movie of his is Mission Impossible 3 and if I don't love that movie I at the very least crushing on it.

I'm glad he has returned SW back to its roots but I have to admit I'm glad he isn't on the sequel but I feel certain it would be a ESB rehash.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not defending the prequels, BTW. I'm just saying why the hard core fans are possibly drawn to the prequels and may feel TFA doesn't feel like SW.

I will just leave this here, I mostly like all of JJ's movies but I don't 'love' any of them. They are a little by the numbers for me. My favourite movie of his is Mission Impossible 3 and if I don't love that movie I at the very least crushing on it.

I'm glad he has returned SW back to its roots but I have to admit I'm glad he isn't on the sequel but I feel certain it would be a ESB rehash.

You have made your feelings clear, I am responding to the claims. Sorry for the tone.

I am a big Star Wars fan. Have been since I was born and thus I have spent a lot of time with the "hardcores". I haven't seen one I'd consider rational who doesn't like TFA. They may not love it, but they certainly like it. The rest had decided they weren't going to like it from the start and the reasoning goes back a long time.

My least favorite JJ movie is M:I3, but I really like it. I am fan of his, and he made it even more so with TFA. With the money this thing is making, I am thinking he can call his next shot.

 

[spider-neil]

For the record, I actually think JJ and Disney made the correct decision to play safe (familiar plot threads to ANH) in the same way that Webb and Sony made a HORRIBLE decision to retell the origin of Spider-Man for the reboot.

People are having a right old moan that TFA is almost a retread of ANH, but you can at least understand 'why', surely?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For the record, I actually think JJ and Disney made the correct decision to play safe (familiar plot threads to ANH) in the same way that Webb and Sony made a HORRIBLE decision to retell the origin of Spider-Man for the reboot.

People are having a right old moan that TFA is almost a retread of ANH, but you can at least understand 'why', surely?

The film is superficially similar. But it actually functions more as a OT greatest hits, with very different characters.