Ant-Man Edgar Wright Leaves Ant-Man!! - Part 1

[TheVileOne]

I think you'll find Drumsticks are a different brand. I know down here at least they are as we have both Cornettos and Drumsticks available. Both basically the same thing though in terms of taste.

I know they are different brands, the items are more or less THE EXACT SAME THING!

 

[Octavias]

You have to remember, that while each movie is a separate entity, as a whole it is affecting a larger entity. Giving a director total free reign can be devastating to the collective MCU... look at what happened with the first Hulk... great visionary director... totally lost the character and the mythos... they already were bending the MCU to fit Wright's vision... if he strayed further it may have just been time to say no and move on...

 

[Rock Sexton]

Outside of Marvel MCU then, the only things it can be is either an X-Men movie, which isn't likely since the closest he can be involved in one after Apocalypse is 2018 which shouldn't affect his projects right now. Can't be FF. Could be TASM4 since Webb has said he's not doing one after TASM3 and it would make sense but it doesn't come out until 2018 so I don't see how that can effect his current project.

So it's probably not Marvel related at all, which means DC, which has a ton of movies in development....Flash for 2016?

So I'm calling either Flash or TASM4. TASM4 probably makes the most sense, although the timing is kind of odd for it to conflict with Daredevil.

You're off on your year. Really don't want to say much more than that.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You're off on your year. Really don't want to say much more than that.

Wonder Woman was my guess but now the year thing throws me off. Maybe it's Spidey-related after all. Not looking forward to waiting until the end of summer to know this. God dammit.

 

[Dascoyne]

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You maniacs!

 

[Darkraid]

I don't think things are that black and white. It isn't an either/or situation.

I don't mind changes and deviations from the source as long as who these characters are at the core stays intact. In fact, I would argue that's been a huge part of Marvel's MO since '08. Taking the best traits a character has to offer while reinventing them for the big screen. This is especially true with Thor and Iron Man. Hemsworth and Downey, as well as their writers, gave them an excellent characterization that's different but intact/in-tone with the comics.

I start to draw the line where characters get INO'ed (in name only) or have their spirit/essence snatched from them, with the spirit and essence varying from character to character. By the latter part, it could be a case of removing a specific message/moral that comes with the character, or a specific character struggle of importance, etc.

Those two factors are why I was never on board with this in the first place. I don't think Hank and Jan ever deserved any of this. More specifically with Hank. I always saw him as the most important Avenger after the Big Three (Tony, Cap, Thor). Founding member, been with the team since the beginning, is one of Marvel's brightest minds and has worked with the likes of Tony/Reed, has been one of the smartest men on the team and has done a lot in terms of gadgets/science, is heavily tied to Ultron, has bipolar disorder which plays into his dynamic with the team and how he views himself, always tries to atone for his mistakes by contributing to the team, Avengers Academy, etc.

To offer an "in a nutshell" of it, he is to the Avengers what Martian Manhunter is to the JL. There is no team without Hank and there is no Hank without the team. I'd argue BW and Hawkeye fall in that category too.

Due to that, I was never on board with any of this. Isolating him from the MCU, aging him into an old inventor, stripping him of all connections to Ultron and the team, turning him into a supporting character (or villain) in his own film, essentially making him INO...I don't think Hank deserved this. Especially with the slow character assassination he's been going through since that out-of-context-taken slap thirty years ago. If anything, the "boom" of the MCU would have been the perfect time to undo that.

However, that doesn't mean I wouldn't accept any deviations from the source. In some cases I do, in some cases I don't. It depends on whether or not I like the idea. In Hank's case, I didn't. But I accepted other deviations from Marvel in the past.

I actually wouldn't consider myself part of any group. I think faithfulness to who these characters are is just as important as telling a great interesting story/film. Both are necessary components to success, and if we look at most of the CBM's fans generally praise, they were mostly films that managed to achieve both. TDK and Avengers are the biggest examples, with both being huge cultural phenomenons.

Great post. Always wanted Rudd or Fillion as Pym, not Lang. And using Lang as the main character than Pym is really a disgrace to Pym fans.

I felt that it is too big a change not to use Hank as the hero and not pairing him with Janet. It is a total waste of a great character.

Is it too late for Marvel to use Hank Pym though? As the main hero instead of Scott Lang?

 

[Mr. Dent]

Wonder Woman was my guess but now the year thing throws me off. Maybe it's Spidey-related after all. Not looking forward to waiting until the end of summer to know this. God dammit.

He said I was off on my year [blackout]not the property[/blackout].



I think I have a good idea now.

 

[Dark Raven]

Great post. Always wanted Rudd or Fillion as Pym, not Lang. And using Lang as the main character than Pym is really a disgrace to Pym fans.

I felt that it is too big a change not to use Hank as the hero and not pairing him with Janet. It is a total waste of a great character.

Is it too late for Marvel to use Hank Pym though? As the main hero instead of Scott Lang?

Fans of the creators often say that fans of the characters need to allow changes to be made to said characters if it would help the movie and since it is an adaptation, and that fans of the characters are too inflexible about changing the source material.

Well, as a fan of the characters, if a change had to be made to still allow Rudd to play the lead and to also be with Jan, then I would accept if Marvel now combined the characters of Pym and Lang, even if he is now a semi thief named Hank Pym who is also a scientist and the inventor of the Pym particles, and has a daughter named Cassie Pym.

Since Hank can't be the inventor of Ultron now, he could still be the lead here but given some of the personality traits of Lang, while losing the so-called wife beater trait completely. I would accept that as a compromise, but wouldn't accept Lang getting all of Pym's life, including Jan, while Pym is completely marginalised.

I could even accept Douglas as Van Dyne, the father of Jan, who could have invented an earlier version of the particles and even wore a prototype Ant Man suit in the 1960s which Pym vastly refines using his own modern tech and knowledge.

 

[Darkraid]

Fans of the creators often say that fans of the characters need to allow changes to be made to said characters if it would help the movie and since it is an adaptation, and that fans of the characters are too inflexible about changing the source material.

Well, as a fan of the characters, if a change had to be made to still allow Rudd to play the lead and to also be with Jan, then I would accept if Marvel now combined the characters of Pym and Lang, even if he is now a semi thief named Hank Pym who is also a scientist and the inventor of the Pym particles, and has a daughter named Cassie Pym.

Since Hank can't be the inventor of Ultron now, he could still be the lead here but given some of the personality traits of Lang, while losing the so-called wife beater trait completely. I would accept that as a compromise, but wouldn't accept Lang getting all of Pym's life, including Jan, while Pym is completely marginalised.

I could even accept Douglas as Van Dyne, the father of Jan, who could have invented an earlier version of the particles and even wore a prototype Ant Man suit in the 1960s which Pym vastly refines using his own modern tech and knowledge.

I think they can reshoot some scenes in AOU to have Rudd appear as Pym and be the creator of Ultron. Shouldn't be that hard.

I think Marvel need to quickly change the script. It has gone too far and I doubt fans of Hank Pym will appreciate the changes made by Wright.

I am a fan or Wright's cornetto trilogy but I think he f***ed the characters and premise for an Ant-Man movie. I'd rather it being a sci-fi film than a heist film. Pym is too important in Marvel lore to be a background character. He is basically the smartest guy in Marvel when Reed isn't around.

 

[The Question]

I think they can reshoot some scenes in AOU to have Rudd appear as Pym and be the creator of Ultron. Shouldn't be that hard.

That's completely ridiculous. That's not how making movies works.

 

[Quasimod0]

There's NO WAY they would change something like that in A2 this late in the game

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

so, weekend is over. can we expect news to day on that front?

 

[The Question]

Anyone who thinks that Marvel and Whedon would be willing or able to make such drastic changes to the AOU script while they're in the middle of filming, or who think think that changing the Ant-Man script to make Hank Pym the main character is or should be a priority for Marvel, is kidding themselves. That's just nonsense.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

so, weekend is over. can we expect news to day on that front?

It's Memorial Day so probably not. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

It's Memorial Day so probably not. Maybe tomorrow.

I thought thats on 11/11?

 

[Mike Murdock]

That's Veteran's Day (originally Armistice Day). Memorial Day is about honoring those who lost their lives in service, Veteran's Day is about celebrating veterans generally (and celebrating the end of World War I, I suppose).

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

sounds redundant...

 

[Tanin]

sounds redundant...

Veteran's day is for living military troops like my brother.
Memorial day is for troops who died during service.

Very big difference.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Anyone who thinks that Marvel and Whedon would be willing or able to make such drastic changes to the AOU script while they're in the middle of filming, or who think think that changing the Ant-Man script to make Hank Pym the main character is or should be a priority for Marvel, is kidding themselves. That's just nonsense.

I completely agree with you here. It makes no sense for them to change the script, and it makes perfect sense to retcon his creator into Tony Stark. Thematically it brings his arc full circle and back to the roots of his origin, as he's once again creating weapons that end up harming more people than they help. It also brings Tony to the forefront of the story, without necessarily making him the lead, and his presence is an important factor in the box office. I still believe Tony will "die" at the end of Age of Ultron and that phase 3 will be Marvel betatesting their brand's success without Downey Jr and ultimately cashing in on his "return" in Avengers 3.

 

[The Question]

I completely agree with you here. It makes no sense for them to change the script, and it makes perfect sense to retcon his creator into Tony Stark. Thematically it brings his arc full circle and back to the roots of his origin, as he's once again creating weapons that end up harming more people than they help. It also brings Tony to the forefront of the story, without necessarily making him the lead, and his presence is an important factor in the box office. I still believe Tony will "die" at the end of Age of Ultron and that phase 3 will be Marvel betatesting their brand's success without Downey Jr and ultimately cashing in on his "return" in Avengers 3.

Also, they have zero incentive to change anything.

 

[Shikamaru]

It's too late in the game now to make Hank the creator of Ultron. At best, they can insert a reference or throwaway line. "I bought the tech from this guy named Hank" or something. Which is nothing.

It really is nuts in retrospect. All these years spent to delay the film and to ignore a character in the mythos to accommodate a specific director's vision...and now his vision won't even be materialized. I've seen people joke that "the guy comes in, ****s s*** up, then leaves." It seems like all that effort to keep Pym out was a sacrifice for nothing. Sure there's still some Wright influences in the script, but a) it's not his vision, just his script and even that was apparently altered and b) Marvel said the film is happening entirely because Wright wants it, so it feels like Marvel is continuing a project they have no interest in because it's too late in the game to cancel it.

However, I don't think people should blame Wright for this. This is all on Marvel. They put too much blind faith in one director IMO and now it backfired on them. Hopefully they learn something going forward, and I wish they had as much faith in Favreau and others that walked as they did in Wright.

 

[The Question]

It's too late in the game now to make Hank the creator of Ultron. At best, they can insert a reference or throwaway line. "I bought the tech from this guy named Hank" or something. Which is nothing.

And which they have no incentive to do.

It really is nuts in retrospect. All these years spent to delay the film and to ignore a character in the mythos to accommodate a specific director's vision...and now his vision won't even be materialized. I've seen people joke that "the guy comes in, ****s s*** up, then leaves." It seems like all that effort to keep Pym out was a sacrifice for nothing. Sure there's still some Wright influences in the script, but a) it's not his vision, just his script and even that was apparently altered and b) Marvel said the film is happening entirely because Wright wants it, so it feels like Marvel is continuing a project they have no interest in because it's too late in the game to cancel it.

However, I don't think people should blame Wright for this. This is all on Marvel. They put too much blind faith in one director IMO and now it backfired on them. Hopefully they learn something going forward, and I wish they had as much faith in Favreau and others that walked as they did in Wright.

I still think Wright's idea for adapting Ant-Man is a good approach to take with the character wether he's involved or not. Just doing another "scientist gets powers, fights villain, gets the girl" movie would be boring as hell. Changing it up, focusing on the legacy aspect, focusing on the "what it means to be a hero" aspect, delving into the heist movie genre, that's a clever and innovative route to take with Ant-Man. Nothing has been sacrificed.

 

[Darkraid]

Well I am just very disappointed not seeing Hank Pym as an Avenger.

Is it too late for Marvel to do a script revise for Ant-Man? I agree that it is too late for Marvel to include Hank Pym references in A2.

I side with Marvel here. Wright is just looking at the small picture of 1 character but Marvel has to look after the whole MCU. Ant-Man can't be a stand alone film, not tying it with Marvel Universe will significantly decrease the desire of movie goers.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I still think Wright's idea for adapting Ant-Man is a good approach to take with the character wether he's involved or not. Just doing another "scientist gets powers, fights villain, gets the girl" movie would be boring as hell. Changing it up, focusing on the legacy aspect, focusing on the "what it means to be a hero" aspect, delving into the heist movie genre, that's a clever and innovative route to take with Ant-Man. Nothing has been sacrificed.

I agree. I liked Wrights vision and I'm a huge Hank Pym fan, couldn't care less about Lang. But it was a clever way of doing something new with the genre and playing with the legacy theme with one of the very few A-list legacy heroes. And it retroactivly gave Fury's 'You think you're the only superhero in the world' line a meaning.
That said, a Wright/Cornish script without Wright or Cornish directing CAN work. Spielberg did fine with Tintin. But it needs a) a director with a very similar style or b) a veteran director with a lot of expierience.
Since I don't buy Eh Maybe's BS, I guess a lot of the Wright/Cornish stuff will end up in the filming script.