Endgame Endgame User Review Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

How do you rate Endgame?

  • Total voters
    320
Just saw it...

Overall, I'd say it was THE perfect story to tell to conclude the Infinity Saga. That doesn't mean that it was a perfect movie...just the perfect story to tell.

What I disliked:
In general, I despise time travel and alternate timelines. I find them messy and a cop-out. Again though...the adventure through earlier adventures was probably the best story to tell though.

I very much dislike Gwyneth Paltrow. I've actually met her...and...I don't like her at all. She hurts my opinion of every movie she is in. I TOTALLY understand that she was essential to this film...but I HATED that she was actually involved in the final action scene. They did that so that she would be there when Tony died...but she literally pushed Spider-Man out of the way so she could have the big scene, when it would have been just fine had they just given her an emotional scene during his hologram goodbye. The end fight was so overstuffed with characters that some barely got 2 seconds on screen...and you put Pepper in it for a fairly large role?

The fat/drunk Thor jokes got very old, very quickly for me.

I don't want Falcon to be some new Captain America. He's Falcon...and if he discards his identity to take on the identity of someone else...I don't know...I find that distasteful and disrespectful.

Some of the many things I liked:
The geek out moments were obviously great. Cap grabbing Mjolnir, "Avengers Assemble" I mean...there's just too many to list. Cap overall was great.

Nebula is my favorite MCU character, and she played an important role.

Hawkeye really shined as well.

The battle with Thanos was glorious.

I got a bit weepy eyed a few times, it was a pretty emotional film.
 
The movie wasnt perfect, I had my issues with creative choices, some of the humor and how some of the characters were treated in particular one character that I’m SURE is going to be the topic of many many heated fanboy debates. The movie is a lot lot lot to take in.

But.

That third act. My God. OMG. This will sound hyperbolic but i dont care, it is THE GREATEST third act in comic book film history. Period. I want to hear someone convincingly tell me its not. Anyone who has read a marvel comic book, heck comic books period, cannot tell me that wasnt the stuff our dreams as kids were made of. And that moment, y’all know what I’m talking about. One of the greatest cinematic moments in movie history. What a payoff.

I cant grade this thing yet, its a lot to take in and a lot to let marinate. I had issues and problems but those issues and problems were mitigated by the biggest comic book payoff I’ve ever seen in live action. I dont see how that will be topped anytime in the near future.
 
Well I'd say i'm of two minds about the film. I would certainly put it in the top 10 of the best MCU films and place it among the most important CBM in general to date.

Given that, I wouldn't say it was my among personal favorite of the MCU films. Its not in my top five MCU films which are Black Panther , Winter Solider , Guardians of the Galaxy, The Avengers, and Avengers Infinity War.

On the whole, I probably prefer Infinity War more, and found it to be a stronger and tighter film.

I'd say for me this is very much Return of the Jedi to Infinity War's The Empire Strikes Back. Whether that's a good or bad thing I guess depends on how you feel about those films in relation to each other.

Ultimately, I liked how the story concluded. As someone said , this really is a film for the fans and it is quite a ride.

My grade: A- / B+
 
Simply fantastic film that serves as a very good way to wrap up the Infinity Wars saga for the MCU. Was it completely perfect? No, there are other CBM's that come closer to overall perfection than this BUT having said that this film was the perfect film to wrap up this element of the MCU.

Full range of emotions when watching the film, but the most important one come the end was a feeling of fulfilment. It wrapped up several story arcs from several previous MCU films, while also fully opening several exciting new ones for the future.

Loved every minute of it, had a few issues with some things, but as a fan, I'm happy with the film.

4/5
 
I say 8.75 out of 10.

I thought it was filled with moments I wanted anytime the MCU introduced a new movie or character. It was great, going to need my 2nd viewing to really see if it is 8.75 or higher.
 
I'm more baffled about this movie than any other in history. I've seen Endgame twice in 2 days now because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

One part of me simply loves the EPIC moments in this movie, but the other part realizes those EPIC moments were founded on things that don't make sense and actually make the movie fall apart if you look at it closely.

The time travel aspect makes absolutely no sense, hence the whole movie falls apart in act 2. For example:

Nebula killing her past self in the present day. Wouldn't that automatically screw her up too?

Loki vanishing with the space stone in 2012? Wouldn't that create an alternate timeline? (because that didn't happen in the original and it's a major difference)

Future Thor taking Mjolnir from 2014 Dark World would have catastrophic consequences because Thor from the past wouldn't have his weapon in some of the crucial moments that happened from 2014 onwards.

And the biggest one of all - Banner taking the time stone from The Ancient One, meaning Strange wouldn't have the time stone in a crucial moment to defeat Dormammu when he ultimately arrives.

Also on that note, Ancient One seems to know who Banner is referring to when he says the name Steven Strange in 2012. She tells him he's about 5 years too early. But if she knew then who Strange was, why did she first refuse to teach him in Doctor Strange movie? If she was aware he's supposed to become the strongest of them all (her words), why was she hesitant to teach him at first?

Also, in act 3 of Endgame, apparently there is a ****LOAD of masters of the mystic arts present at the battlefield. Where were they during the battle of New York in 2012? Where were they during Infinity War? Opening all sorts of portals and stuff? Cutting Maw and Obsidian to shreds like Wong did to Obsidian's arm before Maw even boards the ship and goes to Titan?

Then there are some ridiculous plot holes that affect the present day (yet they somehow don't):

How the hell did Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony and Nebula are in space? I couldn't have believed my eyes. I was so disappointed in the Russos they used her as a deux ex machina in THAT moment. And that wasn't even the only moment!

How the hell did Thanos teleport HIS ENTIRE ARMY AND THE BLACK ORDER from the past onto the present day battlefield at the Avengers compound? He didn't have enough Pym particles to do that. He had one tiny bottle. You're meaning to tell me that was enough to teleport everyone?

And the final scene that was crucial - Steve Rogers coming back to present day as an old man. How? He spent all those years in the past WITH his past self still in the ice and possibly saved from ice and lurking around? How was that possible? That would create MASSIVE problems with two Caps living in the same moment. Someone would notice, Peggy first.

Does that mean Steve killed his past self or insured he was never found in the ice? If that's true, then Cap would be missing from some crucial past moments and therefore rip the timeline into pieces. Who would stop Red Skull in 1945 for one? Hydra in Winter Soldier? Etc. etc. It makes no sense that making HUGE changes in the past wouldn't affect present day things. Because at the end of the movie, nothing is affected. I don't know really.

On a side note, handing the shield over to Falcon instead of Bucky was a dick move. Stupid at the very least.

I said Endgame wasn't gonna be better than Infinity War because of the luxury Infinity War had and I was unfortunately right.
 
BrianThompson said:
I'm more baffled about this movie than any other in history. I've seen Endgame twice in 2 days now because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

One part of me simply loves the EPIC moments in this movie, but the other part realizes those EPIC moments were founded on things that don't make sense and actually make the movie fall apart if you look at it closely.

The time travel aspect makes absolutely no sense, hence the whole movie falls apart in act 2. For example:

Nebula killing her past self in the present day. Wouldn't that automatically screw her up too?

Loki vanishing with the space stone in 2012? Wouldn't that create an alternate timeline? (because that didn't happen in the original and it's a major difference)

Future Thor taking Mjolnir from 2014 Dark World would have catastrophic consequences because Thor from the past wouldn't have his weapon in some of the crucial moments that happened from 2014 onwards.

And the biggest one of all - Banner taking the time stone from The Ancient One, meaning Strange wouldn't have the time stone in a crucial moment to defeat Dormammu when he ultimately arrives.

Also on that note, Ancient One seems to know who Banner is referring to when he says the name Steven Strange in 2012. She tells him he's about 5 years too early. But if she knew then who Strange was, why did she first refuse to teach him in Doctor Strange movie? If she was aware he's supposed to become the strongest of them all (her words), why was she hesitant to teach him at first?

Also, in act 3 of Endgame, apparently there is a ****LOAD of masters of the mystic arts present at the battlefield. Where were they during the battle of New York in 2012? Where were they during Infinity War? Opening all sorts of portals and stuff? Cutting Maw and Obsidian to shreds like Wong did to Obsidian's arm before Maw even boards the ship and goes to Titan?

Then there are some ridiculous plot holes that affect the present day (yet they somehow don't):

How the hell did Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony and Nebula are in space? I couldn't have believed my eyes. I was so disappointed in the Russos they used her as a deux ex machina in THAT moment. And that wasn't even the only moment!

How the hell did Thanos teleport HIS ENTIRE ARMY AND THE BLACK ORDER from the past onto the present day battlefield at the Avengers compound? He didn't have enough Pym particles to do that. He had one tiny bottle. You're meaning to tell me that was enough to teleport everyone?

And the final scene that was crucial - Steve Rogers coming back to present day as an old man. How? He spent all those years in the past WITH his past self still in the ice and possibly saved from ice and lurking around? How was that possible? That would create MASSIVE problems with two Caps living in the same moment. Someone would notice, Peggy first.

Does that mean Steve killed his past self or insured he was never found in the ice? If that's true, then Cap would be missing from some crucial past moments and therefore rip the timeline into pieces. Who would stop Red Skull in 1945 for one? Hydra in Winter Soldier? Etc. etc. It makes no sense that making HUGE changes in the past wouldn't affect present day things. Because at the end of the movie, nothing is affected. I don't know really.

On a side note, handing the shield over to Falcon instead of Bucky was a dick move. Stupid at the very least.

I said Endgame wasn't gonna be better than Infinity War because of the luxury Infinity War had and I was unfortunately right.
Click to expand...
yep, thats exactly how i feel. every movie has flaws, but when its the main plot point thats this wobbly, it makes everything fall apart. like i was so annoyed by the physics of it all and kept questioning the choices made and the movie would just serve a cool scene to make you drop it/forget about it.
and maaaybe it would all be easier if they didnt wrong some of the characters, which they totally did (imo, ofc), especially thor. he became a walking gag.
 
Once I got a moment to think and discuss the matter with my wife (who is not a fan) and I lowered my opinion to good only.

The plot does not make any sense - I do not believe it could with all this
time travel.
.

What I did not like:
- too long: it could have been easily shorter. Cut especially part of the comedy.
- too long time jump: I understand the reasons (IM living family life) but the world looks like the disaster happened week ago (all those cars, trash etc.). Even with 50 % "cut" the life would have come back to some stability earlier. This is debatable though
- handling Thor:
he is now comic relief which does not make sense taking into account all movies (even Ragnarok)
- handling Hulk: he is also comic relief mostly
and I would love at least single battle scene. However I understand that his use of the gauntlet plus bombardment knocked him out in the last battle - makes sense.
- Captain Marvel: absolutely useless for the plot and ridiculously overpowered.
Logically she would have wiped out Thanos in 5 seconds (she fought him almost on par when he got the gauntlet) but "conveniently" comes in last minute...
It is pretty obvious that her inclusion was forced by business reasons (we need to have our own female superhero once WW worked well) and the creators had not idea how to handle her. She should be introduced in Phase IV and made less powerful. In current version she is in "Godmode" - it was on the verge of "suspension of disbelief" when Black Widow/Hawkeye fought in Avengers alongside of Thor/Hulk but now -
how can you put e.g. all GoG team (with exception of Thor)
or Falcon next to her? What for? To give her new haircut?
- putting Pepper in final battle: I understand that this is for "goodbye" reasons but makes no logic sense: she was never a warrior and she had a daughter to to care about...
- Gamora coming back... Logic: Cap returned the Soulstone. Was Natasha soul just the fee for the lease?

What I liked? Almost everything else.
- single scenes are diamonds!!!
- comedy part (
Cap vs. Cap :-))) especially
): very good as such but sometimes it would have felt better in SNL...
- final hour- biggest payoff of all times... I wish Luke Skywalker in TLJ got 1% of the treatment...
- Cap plot
- IM plot
- Natasha plot
- actors did their best!
Russos are masters when it comes to directing - however they did better work with more concise plot, like in TWS.
 
Wow! That was good. I thought I was going to hate this movie based on the spoilers I read, but I ended up loving it. I loved it, but not as much as I loved the Avengers, Infinity war and Civil war. I still don't like Thor's arc, Cap's ending and few other choices tptb made, but it was a good movie and a worthy send off to the avengers we love.

First, I loved how much we got to see the aftermath of the snap. I felt the devastation and hopelessness of the Avengers, especially with Natasha, Thor and Cap. The directors and writers did a great job with that.
And of course the hope Antman's return brought was palpable. Paul Rudd surprised me in this. This was the best his character has ever been in the MCU.

I know some might have a problem with the first two acts, but it was great IMO. It was a little slow, but that was what it needed to be. Its funny, but for such an epic movie, this felt small scale and intimate. I loved that. The third act was just pure comic book goodness. It was epic and emotional.

This might not be my favourite MCU film, but its the most emotional one for me. It's hard for me to cry while watching a movie, but when
Pepper told Tony he could rest now, my eyes filled up. Another part that got me was when I saw that, "tony stark has a heart" reactor that Pepper kept for him in ironman.
My throat just closed up and I was trying very hard not to cry. I hate crying in public.
I wish they got their happy ending. But even though they didn't,
this was a very good and respectful end to Tony.
"I am inevitable"
" I am Ironman."
Rest in peace Tony Stark.

Very good movie and a good end to these characters I fell in love with years ago. This is a 9/10 movie for me. It didn't make my top 5 MCU movie, it will maybe settle at number 8 for me.
 
BrianThompson said:
I'm more baffled about this movie than any other in history. I've seen Endgame twice in 2 days now because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

One part of me simply loves the EPIC moments in this movie, but the other part realizes those EPIC moments were founded on things that don't make sense and actually make the movie fall apart if you look at it closely.

The time travel aspect makes absolutely no sense, hence the whole movie falls apart in act 2. For example:

Nebula killing her past self in the present day. Wouldn't that automatically screw her up too?

Loki vanishing with the space stone in 2012? Wouldn't that create an alternate timeline? (because that didn't happen in the original and it's a major difference)

Future Thor taking Mjolnir from 2014 Dark World would have catastrophic consequences because Thor from the past wouldn't have his weapon in some of the crucial moments that happened from 2014 onwards.

And the biggest one of all - Banner taking the time stone from The Ancient One, meaning Strange wouldn't have the time stone in a crucial moment to defeat Dormammu when he ultimately arrives.

Also on that note, Ancient One seems to know who Banner is referring to when he says the name Steven Strange in 2012. She tells him he's about 5 years too early. But if she knew then who Strange was, why did she first refuse to teach him in Doctor Strange movie? If she was aware he's supposed to become the strongest of them all (her words), why was she hesitant to teach him at first?

Also, in act 3 of Endgame, apparently there is a ****LOAD of masters of the mystic arts present at the battlefield. Where were they during the battle of New York in 2012? Where were they during Infinity War? Opening all sorts of portals and stuff? Cutting Maw and Obsidian to shreds like Wong did to Obsidian's arm before Maw even boards the ship and goes to Titan?

Then there are some ridiculous plot holes that affect the present day (yet they somehow don't):

How the hell did Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony and Nebula are in space? I couldn't have believed my eyes. I was so disappointed in the Russos they used her as a deux ex machina in THAT moment. And that wasn't even the only moment!

How the hell did Thanos teleport HIS ENTIRE ARMY AND THE BLACK ORDER from the past onto the present day battlefield at the Avengers compound? He didn't have enough Pym particles to do that. He had one tiny bottle. You're meaning to tell me that was enough to teleport everyone?

And the final scene that was crucial - Steve Rogers coming back to present day as an old man. How? He spent all those years in the past WITH his past self still in the ice and possibly saved from ice and lurking around? How was that possible? That would create MASSIVE problems with two Caps living in the same moment. Someone would notice, Peggy first.

Does that mean Steve killed his past self or insured he was never found in the ice? If that's true, then Cap would be missing from some crucial past moments and therefore rip the timeline into pieces. Who would stop Red Skull in 1945 for one? Hydra in Winter Soldier? Etc. etc. It makes no sense that making HUGE changes in the past wouldn't affect present day things. Because at the end of the movie, nothing is affected. I don't know really.

On a side note, handing the shield over to Falcon instead of Bucky was a dick move. Stupid at the very least.

I said Endgame wasn't gonna be better than Infinity War because of the luxury Infinity War had and I was unfortunately right.
Click to expand...
Old Nebula killing the young Nebula will create a new timeline that will go on without Nebula, but will not affect the main timeline. (Professor Hulk said it in the film, you can't change the past)

Again, Loki escaped created a new timeline that he is alive, but in the main timeline he is still dead. I think this is how Marvel will approach his upcoming series.

Thor taking Mjolnir and Banner taking time stone created a new timeline that may doom the universe, but once Cap returning them to the exact same point where they were taken, the new timeline was erased. (Banner and Ancient One discussed about it in the rooftop scene.)
 
BigThor said:
For all of you who's seen the movie, does Thor go all "God mode with lightning eyes" multiple times and how does it compare to how it's used in Ragnarok and IW?
Click to expand...

Personally, I thought they did Thor better in IW. I was disappointed with how Thor was used in the climax. A couple of cool looking moments that I didn't think amounted to anything as compared to the other OG Avengers.
 
AVEITWITHJAMON said:
Without going into spoilers, will Hulk fans be more satisfied with his role here than his extremely poor one in IW?
Click to expand...

I personally really liked Banner/Hulk in this movie. I didn't care for him much in IW. I really liked Banner in Avengers and haven't liked him as much since then. But I liked what they did with him here. It's like they flipped Banner and Thor from the last movie to this one, imo.
 
inomilan said:
I understand that some people might not like the Thor subplot, but it actually makes sense for a character that went thru what he did to have that kind of growth
Click to expand...

That stuff was fine for me, it was just that I didn't think he shined much in the climax. Each of the OG Avengers had shining moments either throughout the movie or in the climax: Tony, sacrifice, snaps out all the bad guys including Thanos; Cap 1-1 battle with Thanos that lasted a while until the snappees showed back up, used the hammer, fights his past self; Banner was pretty much a leader in this movie, has some cool scenes with the Ancient One, saves some of the Avengers from the building explosion, and snaps back the other half of the universe back; Natasha makes a huge sacrifice; Clint has a lot of badass moments and is able to rescue the gauntlet and has his hero moments; with Thor, anytime it seemed he would get a hero moment, he would get smacked down again by Thaos. Captain Marvel does in this movie (taking down the ship so it can't shoot on them any longer) what Thor does in IW, which is show up and kick butt, helping turn some of the tide. Thor did more against a Thanos with a gauntlet in IW than he did against Thanos w/o it. Maybe it will feel different on a 2nd viewing in the future, but it was more the climax that disappointed me with Thor's character. Everything up until then was good with me. I am excited to see what they do with him in Asgardians of the Galaxy, so that's cool.
 
henry_9305 said:
Old Nebula killing the young Nebula will create a new timeline that will go on without Nebula, but will not affect the main timeline. (Professor Hulk said it in the film, you can't change the past)

Again, Loki escaped created a new timeline that he is alive, but in the main timeline he is still dead. I think this is how Marvel will approach his upcoming series.

Thor taking Mjolnir and Banner taking time stone created a new timeline that may doom the universe, but once Cap returning them to the exact same point where they were taken, the new timeline was erased. (Banner and Ancient One discussed about it in the rooftop scene.)
Click to expand...

but if cap returns the stones, the removal of which is the trigger for creating a timeline, shouldnt past gamora cease to exist? thats how it was explained by the ancient one. infinity stones together create a single flow of time. if they are put back together, all remnants of the alternate universes are no longer.
also, how exactly do you put back the soul stone? and past thanos in the final battle was actually an alternate unverse thanos, right? and i'm supposed to believe thats just an insignificant variable that time machine could swallow and past nebula easily brought alternate universe thanos into a main universe?
it's just too much of mental gymnastics for my taste. sure, you can invent your way around it but it still leaves universe in a messy state, imo.
 
If ten years ago you'd told me I would cry with a superhero movie (one featuring what I considered B-List superheroes no less) I would have laughed in your face.
 
Honestly its a struggle to think where to start with this movie so I suppose im going to divide it up in to three acts of the film.

Killing Thanos/Avengers Divided

I really liked the first scene where Hawkeye sees his family disappear in the snap, we hadn't seen him in a while so was a good way to get me instantly invested back to his story immediately. From there we quickly move on to one of what I thought was unintentionally one of the funniest moments in the movie with Iron Man teaching Nebula how to play table football. Also the fight between Tony & Steve although it might seem petty but I thought it was so good as they had still never seen each other since Civil War and none of those issues were ever really resolved. The team quickly discovers where Thanos has been hiding which surprised me and then we get just a complete shock of them confronting him and Thor killing him, you could sort of hear the audible "wait what are they going to do for the next 2 hours?". We also get the time jump and get to see how fractured the team is with Hawkeye now an assassin, Tony now a recluse, Thor a drunk and Natasha just barley keeping it together. I liked that because they had lost for good as far as they knew so makes sense that it would break a few of them.

Time Travelling To Collect The Stones/Natasha Death

A roach stepping on one of the control's frees Paul Rudd's Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm to kick off the second act. From there he lets the other Avengers know that this could potentially allow them to time travel and this is when we get the formation of the team's plan to collect all the stones before Thanos ever did. The whole back and fourth between them trying to work out where all the stones were was hilarious especially Thor's story about the reality stone. Feel like this part is where I have to give most credit to the Russo brothers because I feel like those time travel moments can often feel cheap, you're reusing old footage and just trying to put a new spin on it but they did it perfectly. Every scene we had already seen previously had another great moment that we hadn't seen yet. Like Hulk not fitting in the lift, Cap's hail Hydra moment, Rocket I can only assume attacking Jane lol, seeing Quill's dance number from the outside perspective and even getting to see what the Anicent One was doing during the battle of New York was a great fan moment. Was also cool to see Thor meet back up with mum & gets Mjolnir back and Tony with his dad. Massive shock when Widow ended up self sacrificing herself, I feel like Renner has been expected to die in like 3 movies now so for them to switch it again really caught me off guard and I honestly think her death was far better than that of Gamora's on Vormir as at she got to go out to save a friend rather than just get hurled off a mountain.

The Final Battle/Ending

Once we get everyone back barring Natasha the Avengers set up their own version of the gauntlet to do their very own snap to bring everyone back. Thought it was actually a pretty cool idea to let Hulk be the one to do the snap due to his insane healing factor, just didn't expect it to be him. Straight from Hulk's snap we see Thanos's ship coming through the Quantum Realm and just levelling the Avengers base (for real how is Ant-Man not dead lol). Was awesome to see that trinity of Cap, Thor and Tony taking on Thanos as a team this time and I loved how Thor had both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir at the same time once he put his armour back on he actually reminded me of Hopkins as Odin. The team work stuff they put in these movies is always cool but loved the whole Thor powering up Iron Man moment. The crescendo of that four way fight however has to be when we see that Cap has picked up Mjolnir and the way he uses them both together looked like something ripped straight from the pages of a comic and got a huge pop from my cinema. Thanos gets the upper hand and actually destroys Cap's shield (would have really liked a quick explanation of what that weapon was as it seemed super powerful). Then as Cap looks on at Thanos army we get the return of Dr Strange and all the rest of the heroes, and after waiting for like 20 movies Cap finally says "Avengers Assemble!" lol. Got to be honest I couldn't even tell you what was going on for half of that all I know is I was smiling from ear to ear the whole way through the battle. Strange's subtle reveal that this is the one way we can win ends up with Tony taking the stones from Thanos and doing the snap himself. It was a great end for RDJ's run on the character. We get a funeral scene featuring damn near ever cast member for Stark and then see Rodgers going to return all the infinity stones to their places in time. Was great to see him as the an old man, knowing he got to have his life with Peggy and passing on the shield to Sam.

10/10
 
Frodo said:
Well I'd say i'm of two minds about the film. I would certainly put it in the top 10 of the best MCU films and place it among the most important CBM in general to date.

Given that, I wouldn't say it was my among personal favorite of the MCU films. Its not in my top five MCU films which are Black Panther , Winter Solider , Guardians of the Galaxy, The Avengers, and Avengers Infinity War.

On the whole, I probably prefer Infinity War more, and found it to be a stronger and tighter film.

I'd say for me this is very much Return of the Jedi to Infinity War's The Empire Strikes Back. Whether that's a good or bad thing I guess depends on how you feel about those films in relation to each other.

Ultimately, I liked how the story concluded. As someone said , this really is a film for the fans and it is quite a ride.

My grade: A- / B+
Click to expand...

Totally agree on the ROTJ comparison - ROTJ isn't quite up to the previous films but has a very satisfying ending for Darth Vader and ties things up neatly. ENDGAME is the same - not as well paced and balanced as Infinity War but still a worthy ending.
 
BrianThompson said:
I'm more baffled about this movie than any other in history. I've seen Endgame twice in 2 days now because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

One part of me simply loves the EPIC moments in this movie, but the other part realizes those EPIC moments were founded on things that don't make sense and actually make the movie fall apart if you look at it closely.

The time travel aspect makes absolutely no sense, hence the whole movie falls apart in act 2. For example:

Nebula killing her past self in the present day. Wouldn't that automatically screw her up too?

Loki vanishing with the space stone in 2012? Wouldn't that create an alternate timeline? (because that didn't happen in the original and it's a major difference)

Future Thor taking Mjolnir from 2014 Dark World would have catastrophic consequences because Thor from the past wouldn't have his weapon in some of the crucial moments that happened from 2014 onwards.

And the biggest one of all - Banner taking the time stone from The Ancient One, meaning Strange wouldn't have the time stone in a crucial moment to defeat Dormammu when he ultimately arrives.

Also on that note, Ancient One seems to know who Banner is referring to when he says the name Steven Strange in 2012. She tells him he's about 5 years too early. But if she knew then who Strange was, why did she first refuse to teach him in Doctor Strange movie? If she was aware he's supposed to become the strongest of them all (her words), why was she hesitant to teach him at first?

Also, in act 3 of Endgame, apparently there is a ****LOAD of masters of the mystic arts present at the battlefield. Where were they during the battle of New York in 2012? Where were they during Infinity War? Opening all sorts of portals and stuff? Cutting Maw and Obsidian to shreds like Wong did to Obsidian's arm before Maw even boards the ship and goes to Titan?

Then there are some ridiculous plot holes that affect the present day (yet they somehow don't):

How the hell did Captain Marvel know exactly where Tony and Nebula are in space? I couldn't have believed my eyes. I was so disappointed in the Russos they used her as a deux ex machina in THAT moment. And that wasn't even the only moment!

How the hell did Thanos teleport HIS ENTIRE ARMY AND THE BLACK ORDER from the past onto the present day battlefield at the Avengers compound? He didn't have enough Pym particles to do that. He had one tiny bottle. You're meaning to tell me that was enough to teleport everyone?

And the final scene that was crucial - Steve Rogers coming back to present day as an old man. How? He spent all those years in the past WITH his past self still in the ice and possibly saved from ice and lurking around? How was that possible? That would create MASSIVE problems with two Caps living in the same moment. Someone would notice, Peggy first.

Does that mean Steve killed his past self or insured he was never found in the ice? If that's true, then Cap would be missing from some crucial past moments and therefore rip the timeline into pieces. Who would stop Red Skull in 1945 for one? Hydra in Winter Soldier? Etc. etc. It makes no sense that making HUGE changes in the past wouldn't affect present day things. Because at the end of the movie, nothing is affected. I don't know really.

On a side note, handing the shield over to Falcon instead of Bucky was a dick move. Stupid at the very least.

I said Endgame wasn't gonna be better than Infinity War because of the luxury Infinity War had and I was unfortunately right.
Click to expand...

If I can address a few of these from how I saw it:

1) They explained anything affected from the past would only create a new timeline, not alter the present one (thus no grandfather paradox). So, present Nebula killing past Nebula only means that this created a new timeline for whatever future would exist for 2014 Nebula. But it wouldn't change present Nebula's reality.

2) Cap was going to restore all the gems and Mjolnir to where they were before the Avengers took them, so all things would proceed in those timelines as is.

3) Yes, as I understand it, Loki escaping with the stone would now be creating a new timeline for that reality going forward.

4) Don't know how Capt Marvel rand into Tony and Nebula. It could be that she showed up on Earth due to Fury's beacon, spoke with Cap or Nat, they asked if she could find the ship Tony was on, and away she went, finding them and bringing them back.
 
Last edited:
Well, I've seen it twice now, and so I think it's safe to say I absolutely loved it. I'm not sure how it would work as a standalone movie, but that doesn't matter because it's NOT a standalone movie. This is like the most epic TV series finale of all-time. And like all the best TV series finales, it exists to reward those viewers who've invested years of their attention and devotion to this world and these characters. It pays off things you didn't even know you wanted payoffs on, which makes them all the more rewarding when you get them.

Much like the go-to superhero movie template, Superman: The Movie, each act of this film is essentially it's own little movie.
The post-Snap Act 1 feels like a totally different thing from the time-travel shenanigans of Act 2 (I'd watch a whole movie of that, by the way), and of course, Act 3 is the straight-forward epic superhero extravaganza we all came for.
And it's all held together by the emotional thru-line that is these broken characters piecing themselves back together again and finding their way back to who they are. One thing I really loved was seeing
how energized our heroes became when they started enacting their plan in Act 2. It was like we could see them gradually becoming their former selves again.

I had absolutely no problems with the handling of Thor, because
A.) The character so far has worked best in the MCU when he's allowed to be comedic, B.) Underneath that comedy was a character that was genuinely heartbreaking, and his whole scene with his mother is one of the loveliest scenes in a film jam-packed full of those, and C.) on the action/badassery front, he got his spotlight in Infinity War - this was Cap and Tony's time to shine, but he still got a couple cool moments, and D.) His journey's obviously not done. This was not his swan song. E.) He's a warrior not a king, never wanted to be (except back when all he cared about was glory), and was never the type well-suited to that kind of lifestyle, so him finally realizing that that's alright is kind of a wonderful thing, imo. He did right by his people several times over now, and he's done right by them again by leaving them under Valkyrie's capable and stable leadership. On a side note, I thought Frigga's speech about how everyone fails at what they're "supposed to be" was all kinds of great. Like, at this time in my life, I think I actually needed to hear that myself, lol.

This was Tony and Cap's movie through and through, and rightfully so, imo. I won't get spoilery but I'll just say the handling of both their stories in this film totally worked for me. By the way, the acting in this was fantastic. We actually got to see sides of these characters that felt totally fresh, which is impressive considering how many films we've seen them in at this point. But there were several moments I found myself thinking "damn, they are really acting in this one!" Besides RDJ and Evans, I'd say the surprise MVP of this flick was Ruffalo. Didn't see that coming, but I absolutely LOVED him in this.

Also, regarding the "science" of the plot:
it works fine for me if I just think of it as, they created a multiverse. Like Banner said, they can't change their own pasts. So every time they altered something in the past, they simply created a new timeline where that thing was altered. But it didn't affect their past.
I have a hard time articulating it, but it works perfectly fine in my brain, lol.

Do I have quibbles? Of course:
-While I thought Scarlett's performance was particularly strong in this one, I didn't like the handling of Natasha at all. She should've been there in that final battle, and that shot with all the ladies was lacking something without the OG female Avenger.
-I enjoyed her power displays, but Carol was pretty much wasted here. I was hoping she'd at least get as good a showing in this as Doctor Strange got in IW, but nope. This was our only chance to see her interacting with the OG Avengers and while she did seem to form a bond with some of them in the 5 year gap, it was all off-screen. Boo.
-My 2nd showing I saw it with my mom, and she felt the length a little bit, particularly in the first half. And while I LIKED that whole melancholic vibe of the post-Snap world, I kinda get where she's coming from. The pacing did feel a little off, probably because there were actually fewer action beats (especially in that first half) than we're used to getting in these movies.
-Kinda lacking in iconic hero shots. I'll admit I do miss Whedon's "splash page" tracking shots. Though there was one stunning shot of Cap standing alone against Thanos' army though that would make a killer wallpaper, lol.

But those are relatively minor, and easily outweighed by all the glorious "hell yeah!" moments this movie provides, some of which I'd been hoping for ages now to see. Couple those with so many wonderful little surprises I didn't even know I needed to see and yeah, it all made for a pretty sublime moviegoing experience. if I had to choose one word to describe it, it would be "satisfying." The whole journey was just immensely satisfying to me, and made me glad to have invested so many hours into the films that led up to it. The payoff was deeply rewarding.
 
kguillou said:
That third act. My God. OMG. This will sound hyperbolic but i dont care, it is THE GREATEST third act in comic book film history. Period. I want to hear someone convincingly tell me its not. Anyone who has read a marvel comic book, heck comic books period, cannot tell me that wasnt the stuff our dreams as kids were made o
Click to expand...

I need to see it again but right now the 3rd act in The Avengers still holds top spot for me. The choreography, team work, geek out moments and flow of the battle of New York is a very high bar to overcome.
 
I have a big problem with the 2nd act. There is no urgency or stakes because

Stark figures out they can get multiple Pym particles from 1970s to jump through time. Before that, there was tension and urgency because 1 slip up and their mission failed because antman had limited pym particles needed to time travel.

And on top of that, the time travel quests were all low stakes except Nats and Hawkeyes. Only those 2 had great character challenges with strong story. The other quests felt like they were simply made for fan service and nostalgia Call backs - like Stark talking to his dad or Thor meeting his mother. There was no real urgency or difficulty as there was with the soul stone quest.
 
kguillou said:
The movie wasnt perfect, I had my issues with creative choices, some of the humor and how some of the characters were treated in particular one character that I’m SURE is going to be the topic of many many heated fanboy debates. The movie is a lot lot lot to take in.

But.

That third act. My God. OMG. This will sound hyperbolic but i dont care, it is THE GREATEST third act in comic book film history. Period. I want to hear someone convincingly tell me its not. Anyone who has read a marvel comic book, heck comic books period, cannot tell me that wasnt the stuff our dreams as kids were made of. And that moment, y’all know what I’m talking about. One of the greatest cinematic moments in movie history. What a payoff.

I cant grade this thing yet, its a lot to take in and a lot to let marinate. I had issues and problems but those issues and problems were mitigated by the biggest comic book payoff I’ve ever seen in live action. I dont see how that will be topped anytime in the near future.
Click to expand...
Ahem...

I believe we were guaranteed a 10/10 rating from you if that thing you wanted to happen happened, and that definitely happened, so yeah, pay up.

;)
 
For me, what would have really help with raising the stakes in this would be if:
Thanos's ship & army transported to/destroyed the Avengers HQ BEFORE Hulk made the snap. It would have made it more a race for them to try and protect the Gauntlet and bring everyone back in time. If they had given us a small "Last Stand" between the remaining Avengers followed by the arrival of EVERYONE else arriving just before all is lost, that would have really satisfied me. I did love the "Last stand" we kinda got between Iron Man/Thor and Cap against Thanos, but as soon as his army arrives just before everyone else does, you pretty much know that Thanos is gonna lose, so i think bringing the attack forward and having more overwhelming odds put against the Avengers would have made it slightly more impactful
 
rebellion said:
but if cap returns the stones, the removal of which is the trigger for creating a timeline, shouldnt past gamora cease to exist? thats how it was explained by the ancient one. infinity stones together create a single flow of time. if they are put back together, all remnants of the alternate universes are no longer.
also, how exactly do you put back the soul stone? and past thanos in the final battle was actually an alternate unverse thanos, right? and i'm supposed to believe thats just an insignificant variable that time machine could swallow and past nebula easily brought alternate universe thanos into a main universe?
it's just too much of mental gymnastics for my taste. sure, you can invent your way around it but it still leaves universe in a messy state, imo.
Click to expand...
Past Gamora did disappeared. I think she was turned to dust along with Thanos and his army.

Regarding the return of soul stone, now that's a very interesting question. I don't have an answer for that, but I do think it would be very interesting to see Cap's reaction when he meets Red Skull again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Spider-Fan
  • Locked
Endgame Endgame & Spoilers
Replies
0
Views
4K
Spider-Fan
Spider-Fan
Spider-Fan
Endgame Top 3 Best, Top 3 Worst, & MVP/LVP/Most Improved! (Spoilers...Beware!)
2 3
Replies
53
Views
7K
BlackFox
BlackFox
Spider-Fan
  • Poll Poll
Far From Home The Official Spider-Man: Far From Home User Review Thread
8 9 10
Replies
231
Views
27K
Doctor Jones
Doctor Jones
Dark Raven
Endgame Qs/ things you liked/disliked/wanted to see in Endgame [SPOILERS]
16 17 18
Replies
427
Views
33K
CyclopsSummers
CyclopsSummers
flickchick85
Captain Marvel The Captain Marvel User Review Thread (TAG SPOILERS!!!)
11 12 13
Replies
300
Views
29K
HammerDown
HammerDown

Staff online

Members online

Total: 2,907 (members: 33, guests: 2,874)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,435
Messages
22,105,800
Members
45,898
Latest member
NeonWaves64

Share this page

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"