Ending of One More Day?

[sethcohen]

house of m?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Mephisto was in House of M? I didn't read it so I don't know. Last I saw him was back in Priest's Black Panther series.

 

[sethcohen]

i was referring to resets

 

[Varient]

What are some other pieces? I don't remember anything else being reset.

Poor choice of words,.. neutered or nullified the changes is more like it. all the "resets" as in "do overs" are limited to Captain Marvel and Captain Britain Corps.

I said this in June of 2006:

I'm thinking that there are just too many changes to allow Marvel to maintain.

Consider:

The Hulk WILL RETURN. regardless of whether he has a planet behind him or not,... he has a short list of Marvel Superheroes he will try to kill.

(He came back "looking like" He was going to kill but they went against his character by having him "spare" the Illuminate instead of killing them personally.)

Namor the Sub Mariner has NEVER struck me as Rational even "MOST" of the time. Losing Namorita,.. His only known "relative" (a clone of a cousin?), He's got reason to tear up a few things.

[BLACKOUT]Atlantis as of this posting has been destroyed,.. and Namor has teamed up with Doom - Nitro appears to have been killed..[/BLACKOUT]


Civil War has pit Hero against hero w/o the excuse of chemicals, energy, hypnotism, or threat on a loved one. They are fighting over the rights of the individual hero in society. IF I WERE FORCED TO BEAT A HERO DOWN to protect my idenity,.. because it protected my loved ones,... I wouldn't be able to go back to working easily beside them after the dust settled no matter how it ended.

Still hasn't been resolved,... we still have a divide between heroes.

The Super Teams are ALL FRAGMENTED along different lines.

Even more so with all the X-teams reseting "again" and the exiles changing.

Alpha Flight has a chewed up timeline with a team in space a team disbanded and a team dead.

Which apparently no one cares since that snafu of duplicate Alpha Flight has not been resolved.

The Shiar have stepped up to trying to neuter earth,... After the grey massacre and the current Summers Brother catastrophe,... by canon they should be lobbing a couple of Planet Bombs at Earth from Jupiter Orbit.

Which was ended by having an earth mutant take over the entire empire?

Spidermans cast of characters has been damaged beyond repair. In the "Spideyverse" Based on Canon,.. Spiderman will be fighting his sinister 16 CONSTANTLY for the rest of his life because in his world THEY LOOK FOR HIM.

Uncle Ben has RETURNED.
Actually two have showed up,.. one is missing the other is dead.

Raganorok has happened ODIN is DEAD,.. the cycle has been broken,... there can no longer easily be an Asgard,....

??Resolved by having the "construct" Donald Blake bring back Thor,.. who ,(because it is comics) can bring back "All of Asgard" one god at a time.

BTW - what are the trio (Fandaral an' Co.) the gods of?

So much more stuff on a minor scale that they won't be able to leave alone.

Slott has done a great job on damage control but this one "retcon" allows marvel to pick and choose what they will fix.

This one "change" in history allows them to rewrite EVERY EVENT that had Spiderman even swing by.

I seriously wonder how Sins will be redone now that there is no MaryJ to prevent peter from giving it up to the dark side?

V.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Warriors Three aren't "gods of" anything. Lots of Asgard's gods aren't gods of anything. I can really only think of five who have concretely been stated to be the gods of something in the comics, in fact: Thor is the god of thunder, Loki the god of mischief/evil, Hela the goddess of death, Balder the god of light, and Tyr the god of war. Heimdall isn't the god of anything, he's just the guardian of the rainbow bridge (or Asgard, now). The Warriors Three aren't the gods of anything, they're just Asgardians (although I think Hogun might not even be from Asgard the city, but from another part of Asgard) who were great warriors and got to hang out with the royal family a lot. Sif was theorized to be the goddess of the harvest or fertility or a couple of other things, but I don't think anything concrete has been found on that--in the comics, they never mention her being the god of anything, she's just another warrior goddess.

 

[Varient]

The Warriors Three aren't "gods of" anything. Lots of Asgard's gods aren't gods of anything. I can really only think of five who have concretely been stated to be the gods of something in the comics, in fact: Thor is the god of thunder, Loki the god of mischief/evil, Hela the goddess of death, Balder the god of light, and Tyr the god of war. Heimdall isn't the god of anything, he's just the guardian of the rainbow bridge (or Asgard, now). The Warriors Three aren't the gods of anything, they're just Asgardians (although I think Hogun might not even be from Asgard the city, but from another part of Asgard) who were great warriors and got to hang out with the royal family a lot. Sif was theorized to be the goddess of the harvest or fertility or a couple of other things, but I don't think anything concrete has been found on that--in the comics, they never mention her being the god of anything, she's just another warrior goddess.

I would Like Hogun to be the God of Grim - as in relentless.
Fandarel to be the God of Swashbuckling Players - Let his first convert be Nightcrawler.
Voltstagg to be the God of Joy of Living,... the guy does everything to excess.

It just occured to me that there were many more than just five in the original myths,...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I would kill for a team-up between Fandral and Nightcrawler.

And yeah, there were more than five gods in the original myths. There were a lot. Most of them were gods of something, but that hasn't carried over to Marvel's comic versions--at least not explicitly. I suppose you could just consider them the gods of whatever they were gods of in the myths by default.

 

[PhotoJones]

A Fandral/Nightcrawler book would be too awesome for print. It's virtually impossible.

 

[Harlekin]

Fandral/Nightcrawler would be so awesome, the universe would implode.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

God Himself would be swashbuckled to His knees, weeping.

 

[fifthfiend]

Manga has vastly better market penetration. People eat that **** up because it doesn't have the stigma of American comics, which are still, after all this time, viewed primarily as being for children and geeks.

I'm not so much disputing any of the above as I'm saying that pretty much my entire point is Tokyopop and Vis have managed to achieve vastly better market penetration and successfully get past the standing stigma of comics as the hobby of kids and geeks*, all basically in less time than Quesada has been Marvel's EIC.

And this isn't even something you can just lay at the feet of publishing cause it's not like the comic-book guys were the last people to say "Oh hey yeah, bookstores!" It's just that the bookstores turned around and punted all those comics out of the bookstores, to make room for the manga comics that people were buying so much of.

I mean I'm just saying if your going to say on the one hand that Quesada's approach is justified because idiots will buy crap, but then you're saying on the other hand that oh the comics market is limited cause there's this stigma of so many people thinking that comics are idiotic crap... well, then, there you go.


*It's arguable as to whether manga isn't just much better at selling to all the kids and geeks who aren't buying Marvel/DC comics, but it works out about the same either way.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How are those mutually exclusive? Quesada is peddling crap to idiots who eat it up in droves (by comic readership standards). Manga is selling better than comics because they're not viewed as comics and thus have none of the stigma that comics possess. I don't really see those as being related. The stigma of comics isn't even that they're idiotic, it's that people perceive them as being for kids or geeks. If you read comics--any comic, really--the average Joe thinks you must be as stupid as a child or you're a geek because people equate comics with superheroes in tights. "Normal" people don't read comics. But "normal" people can read manga because manga's the stuff that gives rise to anime, and everybody and their mother loves anime because of Miyazaki now. Additionally, anime doesn't feature those goofballs in tights and capes, just badasses in normal clothes... who happen to have similar powers to those goofballs in tights and capes.

Honestly, I don't really know why manga has more market penetration than comics when comics cover just as many genres as anime does.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You forgot summin'. People are naturally mentally handicapped, and for some unknown, and fully illogical reason, eat up anything the Japanese give out like it's some nectar of the gods.

That, and Corpy's right. Comics fell since about day one to basically being something for children, and -maybe- young adults for some series. However, Manga (with it's overload of sexual content usually well past American comics, but not always to be truthful) seems to have this stigma that it's meant for those of "smarter" mind. (Anime's like Evangelion sort of lend to this idea) And when you look at the American allowable content in market, the Japanese can simply just get away with more, where an American comic might get some soccer mom group vying to shut them down, especially a while back, which solidified it as a child's book sort of thing. Unfortunately, like cold fusion, people STILL believe dumb things like that, and a public with it's mind set will not change.

 

[Xofenroht]

I don't really see much more that regular American comics can do than Manga, considering the CCA has lost all authority and we've seen what writers can do to get around the other problems they encounter with censorship.

Comics have earned the respect of the literary community now and ARE being used as required texts now in college courses. I'm not talking out of my ass here, either, because I've taken such classes or helped people find books for those classes.

So, my sweet Mistress, I must disagree. The progress is slow, but you can't possibly think the comic book community is looked at in the same light as they (or should I say, WE) were in the past.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes, comics have been accepted by the very small minority in academia. The average Joe, however, still views them as kids' stuff. Not so for manga. Random people of all ages--both male and female, which is another advantage manga's market penetration has over the male-dominated comic market--read manga.

 

[yenaled]

The comics industry has no-one but itself to blame for that image when they imploded in the 90s and the most popular stuff was mindless and idiotic.

I can understand the view of Joe Public about comics when their only exposure to the characters was through people like Rob Leifelds absurd drawings or really, really rubbish media adaptations.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair point. At least now we're getting movies like Batman Begins to change that perception, at least, if not necessarily to get people reading comics.

 

[PhotoJones]

Brian Wood's got a mini site with a message board, and a lot of the posters over there have never read comics before being given DMZ or Demo as a gift by someone else.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Awesome. DMZ is a perfect comic to get newbs into reading comics. Of course, it'd probably breed a lot more smug *****es who look down on superhero comics, but anyone reading any comics can't be a bad thing for an industry in the shape the comic industry's in.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't really see much more that regular American comics can do than Manga, considering the CCA has lost all authority and we've seen what writers can do to get around the other problems they encounter with censorship.

Comics have earned the respect of the literary community now and ARE being used as required texts now in college courses. I'm not talking out of my ass here, either, because I've taken such classes or helped people find books for those classes.

So, my sweet Mistress, I must disagree. The progress is slow, but you can't possibly think the comic book community is looked at in the same light as they (or should I say, WE) were in the past.

I disagree only on the basis of what the two communities would deem acceptable legally and socially.

For instance, you won't find pornographic imagery in your standard superhero comic, where it's not exactly all that uncommon in Japanese manga. Underage as well.

Placing children in a sexually challenging position usually will get a comic to have a public outcry against it, where in manga, nobody really seems to care. (Because they're disgusting creatures. )

Where writers have to sort of go around and do things to imply their intentions, manga writers can flat out do it with zero problems.


And while you may think that comics have reached a level in scholorary achievement, it's very -very- small. And it's basically on the discression of the teacher itself. While many literature teachers might read comics, very very very very very few of other teachers will.

Manga, on the other hand, is fairly universally read in it's home country of Japan, where many business heads and adults will openly admit what their favourite series or short series was.

In America, most people will say their favourite superhero is Superman by default of not actually reading comics, if they admit they have one at all.

 

[PhotoJones]

Awesome. DMZ is a perfect comic to get newbs into reading comics. Of course, it'd probably breed a lot more smug *****es who look down on superhero comics, but anyone reading any comics can't be a bad thing for an industry in the shape the comic industry's in.

Yeah. Wood himself is pretty snobby when it comes to superhero comics. He sometimes acts like his arm was twisted to write GenX for Marvel.

Isn't the industry seeing a lot growth right now, though?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess. I still think of the comic industry as limping along, though. I'll probably continue to feel that way until at least half of the top 10 comics each month are selling over a million copies again.

So, in other words, I'll probably feel that way forever.

 

[PhotoJones]

There's always a resurgence in every form of entertainment at some point or another. Comics will bounce back.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hopefully. So long as they can keep the business going until I die, I'll be happy.

 

[PhotoJones]

Me, too. So long as Image does well enough to support as many great creators and projects like they do now, I'll be happy. I don't worry too much about the Big Two.