Comics Enough crying, lets take our fight to Joey Q!

[Styleshift]

We can't give up. we bug long enough about this...I think they'll break.

fans did it before with Mj's original death. and than again with the seperation. but even the seperation was better than this!

 

[Venom 1988]

he's on you-tube?

Yea out his sig

Youtube.com/thezollybeckershow

 

[Styleshift]

you know what I think the whole

"our love is strong enough to find each other again" comment made by Mj in OMD. was planted as somewhat of a back door in case sales TOTALLY dropped because of OMD.

weirdly enough they have been raised since the creative teams shifted...

 

[ZollyBeckerShow]

We can't give up. we bug long enough about this...I think they'll break.

fans did it before with Mj's original death. and than again with the seperation. but even the seperation was better than this!

Yes you believe in the purity of my mission.

I am not on youtube, I am youtube!!!

 

[Miken Ayers]

you know what I think the whole

"our love is strong enough to find each other again" comment made by Mj in OMD. was planted as somewhat of a back door in case sales TOTALLY dropped because of OMD.

weirdly enough they have been raised since the creative teams shifted...

That and Mephisto said a small part of them will always remember.

 

[ZollyBeckerShow]

Quesada has three months to fix this...
Check out Joe Quesada on wikipedia!!!

 

[Themanofbat]

Quesada has three months to fix this...
Check out Joe Quesada on wikipedia!!!

Ah yes... wikipedia... The main resource for people who think they know better...

 

[Blader5489]

Quesada has three months to fix this...
Check out Joe Quesada on wikipedia!!!

Get a life.

 

[Infidel]

Joe Quesada doesn't care about the quality of comics he puts out. I serisouly don't think he cares. He's spent much of his tenure promising that 'everything will change' and yeah it changes, but it's terrible. We really didn't need an origin of Wolverine where he's Joe Average Canadian, we already assumed that.

Honestly, I can't think of a person who thinks that doing something like the unmasking admist a whole bunch of gimmicks and instantly having be forgotten is a good idea, especially if you make your character a cowardly idiot. Doesn't sound like Spider-man to me.

 

[ZollyBeckerShow]

Quesada ruined everything, Im glad you all se it my way.

 

[Styleshift]

Joe Quesada doesn't care about the quality of comics he puts out. I serisouly don't think he cares. He's spent much of his tenure promising that 'everything will change' and yeah it changes, but it's terrible. We really didn't need an origin of Wolverine where he's Joe Average Canadian, we already assumed that.

Honestly, I can't think of a person who thinks that doing something like the unmasking admist a whole bunch of gimmicks and instantly having be forgotten is a good idea, especially if you make your character a cowardly idiot. Doesn't sound like Spider-man to me.

Marvel Knights was the last Spider-man arc I bought.
THAT is how you do a good spider-man story. being married didn't get in the way of telling it either. there were actually alot of good subplots to it such as the mj/black cat helping spidey subplot.

 

[Arach Knight]

Joke Topic.

Even if it isn't, quite honestly, why blame Joe Q? He does make some pretty off the wall decisions at times, but his tenure ultimately has amounted to some better quality stories from Marvel as well as their continued dominance and fiscal success as a comic publisher.

Things Joe Q has done right

-Improve the sales of Marvel comics
-Increase the publishing of graphic novels
-Introduced the Ultimate line
-A solid run on Daredevil
-Restructure Spider-Man as a franchise (successfully)

Things Joe Q has done wrong:

-Retcon Peters Marriage to Mary Jane

Yep, i'd say that the good outweighs the bad. As a matter of fact, can you really even be angry with Joe Q, when Stan Lee himself said that marrying Peter and Mary Jane was not the best idea? That is how Gwen Stacy got dropped off the bridge. Her character had run her course. An unexplained break-up would have angered fans just as badly, and they didn't want to marry her to Peter, so they eighty-sixed her.

When Mary Jane reached the end of her potential, they decided to let her live and carry out the option that Gwen Stacy never got. Now that has run its course, so they had to get rid of her. It isn't like Marvel hasn't tried in the past. Remember the point where Ben Reily replaced Spider-Man (and they introduced that awful nanobot version of Carnage)? He was single and had a shiftless twenty-something job at a Coffee shop. Remember causing Peter and MJ's baby to be a still birth? Marvel, not Joe Q, has wanted to bring back the more popular and more often portrayed Spidey, for some time now. So you can end your witch hunt...

 

[Doc Destruction]

Ummm, he's done a LOT more crappy stuff than that, don't kid yourself.

 

[iloveclones]

And he's done a LOT more good stuff than that. Don't kid YOURSELF.

 

[Arach Knight]

There are only two truly detrimental things that can be directly blamed on Joe Q.

1)Sins Past: Joe Q edited the story(JMS's original script called for the kids to be Peter's).

2)OMD/BND: Joe Q edited the story (JMS refused to write the story, but was contractually obligated. In the end he was only partially credited rather than fully credited.

I would have put Civil War (again Joe Q edited the original script. Originally the Initiative lost) on the list, but Civil War led to World War Hulk and Secret Invasion. Both of which have turned out pretty damn good (in the case of Secret Invasion, it is more like so far, so good). It seems that anytime a decision is made in a Marvel book that the readers don't like, they instantly blame it on Joe Q.

Yes Joe Q has made some serious errors, mostly revolving around Spidey, but the entire mans tenure can't be blamed for things you don't like about Marvel. Writers still write, so at least pass the blame along to where it belongs. And generally speaking, each book has its own editor, so to a degree, Joe Q isn't in charge of every single decision, for better or for worse. It is purely immature, unrealistic and petty to blame Joe Q for everything. Blame him when it is factual, not when it is convinent.

 

[imdaly]

There are only two truly detrimental things that can be directly blamed on Joe Q.

1)Sins Past: Joe Q edited the story(JMS's original script called for the kids to be Peter's).

2)OMD/BND: Joe Q edited the story (JMS refused to write the story, but was contractually obligated. In the end he was only partially credited rather than fully credited.

I would have put Civil War (again Joe Q edited the original script. Originally the Initiative lost) on the list, but Civil War led to World War Hulk and Secret Invasion. Both of which have turned out pretty damn good (in the case of Secret Invasion, it is more like so far, so good). It seems that anytime a decision is made in a Marvel book that the readers don't like, they instantly blame it on Joe Q.

Yes Joe Q has made some serious errors, mostly revolving around Spidey, but the entire mans tenure can't be blamed for things you don't like about Marvel. Writers still write, so at least pass the blame along to where it belongs. And generally speaking, each book has its own editor, so to a degree, Joe Q isn't in charge of every single decision, for better or for worse. It is purely immature, unrealistic and petty to blame Joe Q for everything. Blame him when it is factual, not when it is convinent.

Even that can't be blamed on Joe Q, since it's been a goal of Marvel for YEARS (some can say since the moment the wedding happened or even before it) to get Spidey unmarried again.

 

[Themanofbat]

Not to mention that JMS did NOT refuse to write the story... but the story that he wrote instead would have made EVERY Spider-Man story since ASM 96-98 invalid as they would not have happened... especially Sins Past, because he didn't want that story left as part of his Spider-legacy... But JQ and Marvel Comics Inc. did NOT want a story where the past DID NOT HAPPEN, just a story where small parts were tweaked... in fact, if not for the surprising ressurection of Harry Osborn, the only thing changed would have been the wedding itself.

 

[Doc Destruction]

And he's done a LOT more good stuff than that. Don't kid YOURSELF.

I'm aware of the good he's done. I'd say he's 50/50. More of a shill than a creative talent. God bless the almighty dollar and all that.

 

[Arach Knight]

I am aware of the fact that they have been trying to make Spider-Man single, since they reintroduced the clone and passed the mantle to him. When I say that Joe Q can be blamed for OMD and BND, it is because he made the editorial mandate that required the use of Mephisto. Now if Mephisto were the better choice than a full on retcon, we won't necessarily know. But JMS obviously wanted to avoid using the devil. Joe Q is only carrying out a long time Marvel desire based on what they think will lead to a more successful run for their most popular character, but that doesn't change the fact that he was responsbile for how it was carried out. I think people would have been slightly less upset, had they divorced the characters or merely had Mary Jane become the casuality of Spidey's former circumstance, rather than to just negatve two decades of continuity.

 

[imdaly]

Not to mention that JMS did NOT refuse to write the story... but the story that he wrote instead would have made EVERY Spider-Man story since ASM 96-98 invalid as they would not have happened... especially Sins Past, because he didn't want that story left as part of his Spider-legacy... But JQ and Marvel Comics Inc. did NOT want a story where the past DID NOT HAPPEN, just a story where small parts were tweaked... in fact, if not for the surprising ressurection of Harry Osborn, the only thing changed would have been the wedding itself.

What was JMS's idea for the story? Was he wanting everything since ASM 96-98 to be some sort of Mysterio illusion?

 

[imdaly]

I am aware of the fact that they have been trying to make Spider-Man single, since they reintroduced the clone and passed the mantle to him. When I say that Joe Q can be blamed for OMD and BND, it is because he made the editorial mandate that required the use of Mephisto. Now if Mephisto were the better choice than a full on retcon, we won't necessarily know. But JMS obviously wanted to avoid using the devil. Joe Q is only carrying out a long time Marvel desire based on what they think will lead to a more successful run for their most popular character, but that doesn't change the fact that he was responsbile for how it was carried out. I think people would have been slightly less upset, had they divorced the characters or merely had Mary Jane become the casuality of Spidey's former circumstance, rather than to just negatve two decades of continuity.

While I would definitely agree that avoiding using the devil as the way of ending the marriage would be ideal, I would also argue that having him divorced or having MJ killed would have cause long-running problems in itself.

It's not that having a divorced or widowed Spider-Man is the problem, but that to have MJ taken from Peter either of those way would mean YEARS upon YEARS of Peter constantly longing to have her back, blaming himself for losing her, etc. We'd have another "Gwen" for him to always beat himself over.

We saw what happened when they tried the "MJ dies" route when she was "killed" on a plane: Pete went to a very very dark place and would not accept that she's gone.

Right after that we also saw her alive but with them separated, and that didn't work either, as both Pete and MJ missed each other too much to be apart.

I hate to (literally) be the Devil's Advocate here, but in using the Mephisto plot, Marvel was able to finally get Peter single again in the cleanest way possible: Pete's not broken up about not being with MJ, so he doesn't have that huge weight of self-pity and irresponsibility hanging over his head for years on end. We can go straight to the more light-hearted, fun-type stories that made Spider-Man such a classic character in the first place.

I'm definitely not saying that I'm liking that they resorted to Peter making a deal with the Devil in order to essentially relieve himself of the consequences of his actions of late. I do not like that at all. But I DO like where we are now because of that horrible, irresponsible deal. And we really couldn't have these stories right now had MJ either died or divorced Peter.

 

[Arach Knight]

The underlying fact is, that things work based on how the writer writes it. After all, isn't that how Whedon got us back Colossus? Isn't that how they brought Magneto back into the fray, through the use of Xorn? If Peter remained mopey and dark or too distracted from the loss of MJ (be it divorce or death) then that is the writers decision to leave him that way. I'm not saying that Peter wouldn't react to the circumstance, but it would hardly be a long term running problem. It would be a problem, but it wouldn't stain his continuity forever. Not even for more than a years worth of issues. He would simply move on.

It would affect his character and his motivation, but it would probably be for the better. Spider-Man was probably the last righteous hero in comic books, that wasn't dissmisable (Superman, DC's Captain Marvel etc). He was the hard working joe who did the right thing no matter how much punishment life threw at him. I mean his greatest arch rival killed his unborn child and that didn't seem to make Peter go permanently bat crazy. So divorcing MJ in order to keep her safe, wouldn't be this terrible thing. It is better than the idea of somebody so righteous that they won't even kill those who (more or less) deserve it, but they would barter with the devil.

 

[Blader5489]

What was JMS's idea for the story? Was he wanting everything since ASM 96-98 to be some sort of Mysterio illusion?

Harry gets put into rehab as early as ASM #98 and MJ goes with him (for support I guess). That pretty much wipes out the following 30 years of stories, given the number of key points in Spdier-Man history that couldn't have happened without Harry.

 

[Blader5489]

I'm aware of the good he's done. I'd say he's 50/50. More of a shill than a creative talent. God bless the almighty dollar and all that.

Quesada gets +10000000 for not creating something like Countdown to Final Crisis.

 

[Themanofbat]

What was JMS's idea for the story? Was he wanting everything since ASM 96-98 to be some sort of Mysterio illusion?

In JMS' version of OMD, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In that particualr arc, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married. Though if Gwen never dies, then it would have only been natural for her and Peter to get married, but the bottom line is that over 37 years of Spider-Man history would have been completely wiped off the map... Say what you want about the current direction, but at least it makes the stories since 1987 still intact (with Peter and MJ as boyfriend/girlfriend living together instead of married). Not that I'm approving of OMD, but the current scenario makes me happier than the JMS resolution.