The Penguin Episode 8: A Great or Little Thing (Spoiler Thread)

Oz making sure Sofia gets the worst possible fate for her is a good concept, that's not the issue. My issue is more it isn't played like that and just plays like a sequel hook and nothing else really.
I agree with this. While I was happy with what happened, the execution played too much like baiting, as opposed to the master stroke of irony it is. I get why they did it, but if they had Oz just drive her to the police station, dooming her to her fate, it would've worked better imo.
 
I agree with this. While I was happy with what happened, the execution played too much like baiting, as opposed to the master stroke of irony it is. I get why they did it, but if they had Oz just drive her to the police station, dooming her to her fate, it would've worked better imo.
Yeah, it's just "Tune in next time". Doesn't feel terribly interested in the dramatic weight of her being imprisoned back in Arkham - just seeding the potential for more.
 
Yeah, and then put the letter on top of it. Which again, I like as a concept. But also feels too setup-y.

Yes and no. I think Selina writing to Sofia in Arkham is an important parallel to her first time there. Her brother was the only one to visit her. In fact, so much about her actions were a result of her losing Al. Now, here she is, she has burned, killed, and alienated pretty much all traces of her old life and family. Which is why they show her kind of catatonic when Dr Simp came in. But, now, here is a new family member reaching out to her. It goes with her goals of a new life.

It feels like setup because we are comic book nerds and have learned to expect that from everything.
 
I like how Vic died horribly and everyone's like, "I'm so happy Sofia's alive!"

:weeping:
Vic is such an underrated part of the show! Could've been such a cliche but never really quite fell into anything so rigid. I really liked how the show never painted him as evil or bloodthirsty but also allowed him plenty of personal agency as a participant in Oz's crimes. Never felt purely like Oz's good guy conscious either.
 
A very delicate nod in the finale.

The song Oz plays in the car when he is taking Sofia is “O mio babbino caro”. In the series Gotham, it is shown that this was Carmine Falcone's favorite song:



Maybe it's not the same case as Falcone from the Matt Reeves universe, but It's such a lovely callback... In a metalinguistical way, the scene is even stronger, because it's like Oz is rubbing his victory in Sofia's face, forcing her to listen to the favorite song of the person she hates the most

The show is absolutely riddled of these subtle but very deep connections of the various batmedias (not just comics), like "Paulie's Diner" mention in episode 6, that was actually a homage to Paul Dini from the Arkham Games artists, or Knox from Burton movies, Summer Gleason from BTAS and so many more.

Even most of Penguin's crew like Mikey from episode 5 are actually longtime characters from the comics.

Just beautiful work all around. It's one of the most diversified shows in paying homages to many many medias and works that are part of the batmythos.

Just congratz to everybody involved for the deep research. Would need a compendium to show all the nice little details and nods.
 
I like how Vic died horribly and everyone's like, "I'm so happy Sofia's alive!"

:weeping:
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Yes and no. I think Selina writing to Sofia in Arkham is an important parallel to her first time there. Her brother was the only one to visit her. In fact, so much about her actions were a result of her losing Al. Now, here she is, she has burned, killed, and alienated pretty much all traces of her old life and family. Which is why they show her kind of catatonic when Dr Simp came in. But, now, here is a new family member reaching out to her. It goes with her goals of a new life.

It feels like setup because we are comic book nerds and have learned to expect that from everything.
I think you could drop the letter in there, he could tell her he thinks she should read it, she starts to and smiles. But they had to spell it out completely down to the the literal name because they think the audience is stupid. Which is fair considering the past week, but the wannabe writer in me still cares. :weeping:
 
Vic is such an underrated part of the show! Could've been such a cliche but never really quite fell into anything so rigid. I really liked how the show never painted him as evil or bloodthirsty but also allowed him plenty of personal agency as a participant in Oz's crimes. Never felt purely like Oz's good guy conscious either.
This is exactly why I didn't expect him to die and why it hit hard when he did.
 
It's so sick that Penguin's look going forward is probably gonna be the full top hat Mr. Monopoly outfit. Would never have guessed that. Perfect. Batman's going to be such a gigantic dick to him about it.
So many puns incoming after "thumb drive". He's going to neg him back into calling himself Oz Cobb. :o

Snow thinks he's running for mayor again. Would fit the look.
 
I think you could drop the letter in there, he could tell her he thinks she should read it, she starts to and smiles. But they had to spell it out completely down to the the literal name because they think the audience is stupid. Which is fair considering the past week, but the wannabe writer in me still cares. :weeping:

I think you kind of have to state the familial connection to get that scene to really work, about Sofia coming out of her fugue state. They emphasized it enough with subtle means.

Frankly, the hack thing would have been to have her read the letter aloud.
 
I think you kind of have to state the familial connection to get that scene to really work, about Sofia coming out of her fugue state. They emphasized it enough with subtle means.

Frankly, the hack thing would have been to have her read the letter aloud.
I don't think any of that makes the scene "work". The black letter and suggestion she reads it is all you need, especially with her reaction to it. Because you trust your audience to remember what they've learned about Sofia and her family up to that point. And if some don't in the moment, that's alright. But it honestly felt very Marvel with the, "your half sister, Selina Kyle."
 
I don't think any of that makes the scene "work". The black letter and suggestion she reads it is all you need, especially with her reaction to it. Because you trust your audience to remember what they've learned about Sofia and her family up to that point. And if some don't in the moment, that's alright. But it honestly felt very Marvel with the, "your half sister, Selina Kyle."
I also think its because like, yeah, she looks unhappy and I don't need histrionics or anything but you don't really get much of a sense of "Oh, wow, Oz really engineered the worst possible thing that he could do to her". It's there as in it literally happens but I don't think they did a very good job of making it impactful.
 
The bat signal while a bit perfunctory (in a fun way, no issue with it) actually does have some effective narrative implications: everything Oz did was for nothing. Inevitably, Batman will destroy what he built. He's just made a sandcastle.
 

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