Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

[TeeKay]

Not really mentioned so far but I loved the shockwave scene where Thor brings his hammer down on Malekith ripping up the ground and shattering the windows, gives a good feel of his power ....

That was cool.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Taylor was responsible for a lot of the added humor. He said so in interviews. And yes, it is Taylor's fault that the actors looked bored at times, not Marvel's. They aren't sitting next to him on set at all times giving direction.

Whedon works for Marvel, so having him come in to work on a scene is no different than any other "meddling" you talk about. No one celebrates when Marvel's additions are good, only when there's something to complain about.

I think both Marvel and Taylor are to blame (if blame is even necessary--it wasn't a bad movie).

Taylor added more comedic scenes because Marvel asked him to, he said in an interview, might have been the collider one, they came to him asked him to add more humour and not make the movie so dark, so again, this was Marvel, not Taylor. Its pretty obvious from the interviews Taylor is not happy with the finished product of TDW, and him wanting fans to ask for a DC speaks volumes.

Whedon did a pass on the script and decided adding this scene would improve it, not actually anything from Marvel really is it? Yeah they hired him, but they didnt actually have input into the scene. The problem is when Marvel meddle its very rarely for the better, this movie could have been something truly special. Also see TIH and IM2, both of which they meddled with heavily, and yet both are considered 2 of the worst MCU movies by fans. Taylor would have made mistakes if left to his own devices, any director does, but IMO the overall movie would have been better if Marvel's meddling had been minimal instead of heavy handed. This movie could have been something really special, and its so frustrating that it wasnt.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Taylor was responsible for a lot of the added humor. He said so in interviews. And yes, it is Taylor's fault that the actors looked bored at times, not Marvel's. They aren't sitting next to him on set at all times giving direction.

Whedon works for Marvel, so having him come in to work on a scene is no different than any other "meddling" you talk about. No one celebrates when Marvel's additions are good, only when there's something to complain about.

I think both Marvel and Taylor are to blame (if blame is even necessary--it wasn't a bad movie).

Taylor, Raimi, Branagh, Whedon, they al seem to add the same amount of the same humor. Somehow I think this is a Marvel thing rather than a collective decision.

 

[Suzanne78]

I missed it, but were the scenes that Whedon added ever confirmed?

 

[Crimson King]

Taylor added more comedic scenes because Marvel asked him to, he said in an interview, might have been the collider one, they came to him asked him to add more humour and not make the movie so dark, so again, this was Marvel, not Taylor. Its pretty obvious from the interviews Taylor is not happy with the finished product of TDW, and him wanting fans to ask for a DC speaks volumes.

Whedon did a pass on the script and decided adding this scene would improve it, not actually anything from Marvel really is it? Yeah they hired him, but they didnt actually have input into the scene. The problem is when Marvel meddle its very rarely for the better, this movie could have been something truly special. Also see TIH and IM2, both of which they meddled with heavily, and yet both are considered 2 of the worst MCU movies by fans. Taylor would have made mistakes if left to his own devices, any director does, but IMO the overall movie would have been better if Marvel's meddling had been minimal instead of heavy handed. This movie could have been something really special, and its so frustrating that it wasnt.

Maybe you read a different interview. I watched the Collider one and I read other interviews on the subject. He said that he wanted to make it dark, but then realized that "we needed to balance it."

As for Whedon's involvement, I think you're splitting hairs. Whedon is being kept in the loop on every Phase 2 movie and has been offering advice/writing as needed. I think it was announced just after Avengers that Marvel wanted him to have a hand in the Phase 2 properties. Just because you liked his involvement doesn't mean that Marvel shouldn't get some praise for having him there.

I agree that the movie could have been better. What I don't agree with is that Marvel is solely to blame. Taylor carries an equal portion of that.

 

[Crimson King]

I missed it, but were the scenes that Whedon added ever confirmed?

Yeah. Taylor said he worked on an "emotional scene between Thor and Jane" and also the skiff scene.

 

[Bim]

Saw this one finally and loved it! Enjoyed it even more than the first Thor. Very solid movie for me, by far the best superhero movie i've seen this year. 9/10 t:. I'm really looking forward to seeing it a few more times now

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Not really mentioned so far but I loved the shockwave scene where Thor brings his hammer down on Malekith ripping up the ground and shattering the windows, gives a good feel of his power ....

That was awesome!

 

[Herolee10]

Was anyone else not a big fan of how Taylor had shot the final moments of Thor’s battle with Malekith in Greenwich, where they were surrounded by the Red Mist/Fog/Haze?

Even in Theaters, it was hard to see what was going on, plus, I feel like it was a head scratcher to see on how Malekith could even be stabbed by Erik’s metal rods since I would have figured that the Dark Elves had stronger bodies than that, enough to rival the Asgardians almost.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Was anyone else not a big fan of how Taylor had shot the final moments of Thor’s battle with Malekith in Greenwich, where they were surrounded by the Red Mist/Fog/Haze?

Even in Theaters, it was hard to see what was going on, plus, I feel like it was a head scratcher to see on how Malekith could even be stabbed by Erik’s metal rods since I would have figured that the Dark Elves had stronger bodies than that, enough to rival the Asgardians almost.

I thought the same thing about the metal rods, but I guess Dark Elves aren't as durable as Asgardians. Still, he was infused with the Aether so he should have been able to withstand the rods. That, or the rod could have been made of iron which all Dark Elves are particularly vulnerable to.

 

[Fallen Angel]

This was OK better than the first film. Malekith was a weak villain IMO. I don't think he'll be on anyone's top 10 villain list.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Maybe you read a different interview. I watched the Collider one and I read other interviews on the subject. He said that he wanted to make it dark, but then realized that "we needed to balance it."

Might have been a different interview, but I remember him saying Marvel asked him to add more humour and lightness, and he agreed with them, hence the "we needed to balance it" comment. I just think he didnt want it to seem like he was having a go at them more than he already had personally.

As another poster pointed out, no matter what director they get for these projects, they all seem to add the same level of humour as the other Marvel movies out at the time. This is so obviously a Marvel thing, and it is so obviously at their request that he added so much to this movie.

Him asking fans to petition for a DC also speaks volumes IMO.

As for Whedon's involvement, I think you're splitting hairs. Whedon is being kept in the loop on every Phase 2 movie and has been offering advice/writing as needed. I think it was announced just after Avengers that Marvel wanted him to have a hand in the Phase 2 properties. Just because you liked his involvement doesn't mean that Marvel shouldn't get some praise for having him there.

I see what you are saying, they should get credit for hiring him, which I gave them back in 2012, but for the scenes added only Whedon should get credit for that IMO.

I agree that the movie could have been better. What I don't agree with is that Marvel is solely to blame. Taylor carries an equal portion of that.

Maybe agree to disagree on this one. Taylor made some mistakes sure, all directors do, but the amount of humour and the run-time are the 2 biggest problems of this movie to me, and both are down to Marvel (or Disney, they could be a big factor here as well). Hence my belief that without them this movie would have been a lot better and more serious. I like humour in my movies, but IM3 and TDW just had for too much and at very inappropriate times.

 

[Mjölnir]

Might have been a different interview, but I remember him saying Marvel asked him to add more humour and lightness, and he agreed with them, hence the "we needed to balance it" comment. I just think he didnt want it to seem like he was having a go at them more than he already had personally.

As another poster pointed out, no matter what director they get for these projects, they all seem to add the same level of humour as the other Marvel movies out at the time. This is so obviously a Marvel thing, and it is so obviously at their request that he added so much to this movie.

Him asking fans to petition for a DC also speaks volumes IMO.

It's hard to get a clear picture of everything from interviews but Taylor also said that creating the petty and awkward parts of being human into the big serious stuff is his favorite thing in the Marvel Universe. He says that in the Empire podcast. It at least doesn't sound like he has a very antagonistic stance towards the humor.

That he would like to do a DC doesn't necessarily mean that he is unhappy with the cut they released either (although it could mean that too, we can't really dismiss anything for sure). He says that he just loves the scenes with Malekith's backstory but that there really wasn't time to include it since you can't wait too long to introduce Thor and his arc (directors cutting scenes they like for the sake of the overall movie isn't uncommon at all). If he got the chance to make a DC it would probably be a conscious part that it would be for a different audience as it would likely cater more specifically to Thor fans. I would definitely want to see a DC though, since as a Thor fan I can't really complain about getting more stuff to watch.

 

[Crimson King]

There's an old adage in writing that says, "Kill your darlings." Seems like that's what Taylor did with the scenes that were cut.

 

[gildedmuse]

So this Whedon scene, it was definitely the first scene where Jane sees Thor after two years, right? I took my mom to see the movie (she turned me into a Buffy fan as a child, so I have now repaid her by making her an MCU fan) and although I can't remember it now I know that in that first scene there was a line where my mom and I both leaned in to comment on how Jane sounded just like Buffy. I even kept glancing through this thread hoping someone would mention it.

 

[Feenix]

So this Whedon scene, it was definitely the first scene where Jane sees Thor after two years, right? I took my mom to see the movie (she turned me into a Buffy fan as a child, so I have now repaid her by making her an MCU fan) and although I can't remember it now I know that in that first scene there was a line where my mom and I both leaned in to comment on how Jane sounded just like Buffy. I even kept glancing through this thread hoping someone would mention it.

I'm a huge Buffy fan myself, and now that you mention it, Jane does sound a lot like Buffy in that scene. I'm totally fine with that, Buffy is one of my favorite characters ever.

Maybe that's why I liked Jane a hell of a lot more this time around than in the first Thor.

 

[BoredGuy]

Maybe agree to disagree on this one. Taylor made some mistakes sure, all directors do, but the amount of humour and the run-time are the 2 biggest problems of this movie to me, and both are down to Marvel (or Disney, they could be a big factor here as well). Hence my belief that without them this movie would have been a lot better and more serious. I like humour in my movies, but IM3 and TDW just had for too much and at very inappropriate times.

Marvel may have had notes about adding levity, and cuts always happen, Taylor only cut what, like 10 minutes out... but my overall feeling is that Taylor lacked sufficient vision for this movie. And I'm not talking about visuals, he has plenty of visual flair, it's the main thing he brought to the film. I mean story vision, vision for what the movie should be in the end. If he knew what he wanted to do, and fought for it with confidence, Marvel would not force any cuts on him, nor would they force in extra humor, especially if they were confident in what he was doing. The Marvel movies that have worked best are the ones that had heavy story influence from their directors (IM, Avengers, Thor, IM3-though some would fight me on that) whereas when the director comes in kind of hired-gun style, it's not so great (CA, Thor2) If Taylor had been more of an auteur with the film and taken real ownership of it, it might have worked better. And that may be the downside of hiring someone who is strictly a TV director, although it looks like The Russos are taking charge and making Cap2 their own

 

[Crimson King]

Marvel may have had notes about adding levity, and cuts always happen, Taylor only cut what, like 10 minutes out... but my overall feeling is that Taylor lacked sufficient vision for this movie. And I'm not talking about visuals, he has plenty of visual flair, it's the main thing he brought to the film. I mean story vision, vision for what the movie should be in the end. If he knew what he wanted to do, and fought for it with confidence, Marvel would not force any cuts on him, nor would they force in extra humor, especially if they were confident in what he was doing. The Marvel movies that have worked best are the ones that had heavy story influence from their directors (IM, Avengers, Thor, IM3-though some would fight me on that) whereas when the director comes in kind of hired-gun style, it's not so great (CA, Thor2) If Taylor had been more of an auteur with the film and taken real ownership of it, it might have worked better. And that may be the downside of hiring someone who is strictly a TV director, although it looks like The Russos are taking charge and making Cap2 their own

Agree on all counts. To hear him talk is to realize that he's used to TV where he's trying to fit his entry into a mold rather than make the mold his own.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

BoredGuy, I liked T:TDW more than you but I kinda sorta agree with what you're saying. But I would put Brannagh in that "hired gun" category, despite his Shakespearean background. I enjoyed Thor 1, but i found its milieu to be fairly generic.

 

[The Ironstar]

Ive got to agree with this. Malekith is the second worst villain in the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe imo. Mostly because he is grossly underutilized and criminally one dimensional. He easily could have been an absolute badass and a villain to remember. They really dropped the ball with him. Thor 2 is gonna be a film that frustrates me because its so much potential wasted.

I don't 'weak' is the right word,maybe not more fleshed out (but in the end,who really cares *do I need to know about Hitler;Stalin* to understand that they are evil?)?

 

[Crimson King]

One thing I think Taylor did really well was to show just how badass the Asgardian warriors are. I liked the updated look to their weapons and fighting style.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It's hard to get a clear picture of everything from interviews but Taylor also said that creating the petty and awkward parts of being human into the big serious stuff is his favorite thing in the Marvel Universe. He says that in the Empire podcast. It at least doesn't sound like he has a very antagonistic stance towards the humor.

That he would like to do a DC doesn't necessarily mean that he is unhappy with the cut they released either (although it could mean that too, we can't really dismiss anything for sure). He says that he just loves the scenes with Malekith's backstory but that there really wasn't time to include it since you can't wait too long to introduce Thor and his arc (directors cutting scenes they like for the sake of the overall movie isn't uncommon at all). If he got the chance to make a DC it would probably be a conscious part that it would be for a different audience as it would likely cater more specifically to Thor fans. I would definitely want to see a DC though, since as a Thor fan I can't really complain about getting more stuff to watch.

I think Taylor heavily implies in his interviews he is not happy with the movie overall, its not hard to read between the lines with both the answers he gives and him laughing while giving, which is often pointed out by the interviewer in the articles. I really do hope we get the DC of this movie, the way Taylor spoke I think it was more than Malekiths back story that was cut out but hopefully we will see one day.

Marvel may have had notes about adding levity, and cuts always happen, Taylor only cut what, like 10 minutes out... but my overall feeling is that Taylor lacked sufficient vision for this movie. And I'm not talking about visuals, he has plenty of visual flair, it's the main thing he brought to the film. I mean story vision, vision for what the movie should be in the end. If he knew what he wanted to do, and fought for it with confidence, Marvel would not force any cuts on him, nor would they force in extra humor, especially if they were confident in what he was doing. The Marvel movies that have worked best are the ones that had heavy story influence from their directors (IM, Avengers, Thor, IM3-though some would fight me on that) whereas when the director comes in kind of hired-gun style, it's not so great (CA, Thor2) If Taylor had been more of an auteur with the film and taken real ownership of it, it might have worked better. And that may be the downside of hiring someone who is strictly a TV director, although it looks like The Russos are taking charge and making Cap2 their own

I disagree, Studio's always win in these types of battles so what was Taylor supposed to do? He didnt really have a choice.

My beef here with Marvel is why even bother hiring the Game Of Thrones guy if you arent going to let him do his thing. As someone said Taylor added many great things to this movie, like how Asgard and the Asgardians were portrayed, but then the rest of the movie comes across as typical MCU fare, lots of humour, poor villain, no real threat to the hero.

Why not hire some random guy if Marvel are pretty much going to co-direct the movie themselves. They hired Taylor because he was controllable IMO, because he didnt have the reputation to push back when they wanted something changed. Again, why even bother? If you watch Taylors GoT episodes, they are amazing, and again it comes down to wasted potential with TDW. The movie could, and SHOULD have been better than it was.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think Taylor and Marvel definitely had issues with one another and Taylor is at least disappointed with elements of the film. That said, I heard Shane Black's commentary on IM3. He had several disagreements with Marvel. Marvel wanted more JARVIS babbling, they wanted the monologue in the hotel about science's intentions becoming corrupted, etc. Yet, all these ended up in IM3. Why is it Shane Black wins HIS battles with Marvel, yet Taylor doesn't? Black's resume' isn't extensive either. If Taylor is unhappy with elements of Thor 2, he should have fought harder (done things like get Whedon on his side, etc...there were power plays to be made in that case). But, he didn't make them. I think that partially falls on him. If Shane Black could win his battles, Taylor could have won his.

I was happy with Thor: TDW, personally. All that said.

 

[Herolee10]

I think Taylor and Marvel definitely had issues with one another and Taylor is at least disappointed with elements of the film. That said, I heard Shane Black's commentary on IM3. He had several disagreements with Marvel. Marvel wanted more JARVIS babbling, they wanted the monologue in the hotel about science's intentions becoming corrupted, etc. Yet, all these ended up in IM3. Why is it Shane Black wins HIS battles with Marvel, yet Taylor doesn't? Black's resume' isn't extensive either. If Taylor is unhappy with elements of Thor 2, he should have fought harder (done things like get Whedon on his side, etc...there were power plays to be made in that case). But, he didn't make them. I think that partially falls on him. If Shane Black could win his battles, Taylor could have won his.

I was happy with Thor: TDW, personally. All that said.

Well some have speculated that it was probably because of how Shane had the likes of Robert Downey Jr., who is likely able to throw more of his weight around than Hemsworth at this moment within the Marvel infrastructure, at his (Shane's) side, along with the possibility that perhaps Taylor didn't have a really defined vision that he was strongly about in order to use when countering with Marvel's preference for the film.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well some have speculated that it was probably because of how Shane had the likes of Robert Downey Jr., who is likely able to throw more of his weight around than Hemsworth at this moment within the Marvel infrastructure, at his (Shane's) side, along with the possibility that perhaps Taylor didn't have a really defined vision that he was strongly about in order to use when countering with Marvel's preference for the film.

Like I said earlier, Taylor had access to Joss Whedon. The man who probably has MORE power against Marvel than anyone else (sans RDJ) at this point. Whedon came to his set! Once things got heated, why didn't he talk to Joss? It seems like the cast members did that and got more money out of the deal. Taylor could have done the same if he attempted to.

Whining after the fact doesn't change the fact that Shane Black is less experienced than Taylor as a director, yet he won these battles. Obviously Taylor was willing to roll along with far more than people think.