Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[Ragnaroknroll]

I feel like he should be been portrayed by Wayne Knight. Fox would have fewer complains over that casting.

Yeah I'd be on board with that casting.

 

[fantasticfan]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/06...e-they/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Eddie]

What are Domashev's powers?

The power to pwn n00bz.

 

[Quasar]

He has the power to generate new costumes at will without spending a dime.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/06...e-they/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

You're really on a mission.

Okay this statement right here is what makes this article a waste of time:

"At the end of the day, one could argue that this strategy was enacted more out of spiteful reasons than financial ones."

Since when is it spite for a company to focus on its most profitable product? Marvel no longer controls the fate of the FF. Is that not clear based on this film? So they're cutting they're losses and moving on. That's not spite. That's common sense. Complaining about this is nerd entitlement.

Listen, I love the FF. They're my favorite super team. But they're from another era. Maybe I am too. I don't know who these characters are in this film but they don't resemble the FF to me. Fox has gone out of their way to NOT have them resemble the FF. But all is not lost. I can still enjoy the FF stories the rest of my life because I have an entire collection of FF comics from issue 1 all the way to Hickman's run. And as a matter of fact I just bought the new release of Marvel Masterworks Fantastic Four Volume 17 hardcover published by Marvel not two days ago.

So I see this chatter as a nonsensical attempt to vilify Marvel in order to paint Fox as some poor martyr. Is Sony a martyr? Because Sony and Marvel sure seem to be getting along swimmingly.

If people really cared about the FF they would have bought enough comics to keep the title afloat. But no they rather belly ache about it online while never spending a dime. Meanwhile, Marvel is supposed to maintain this property's ongoing existence providing free IP to a rival studio as some sort of charity? Give me a break.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Okay this statement right here is what makes this article a waste of time:

"At the end of the day, one could argue that this strategy was enacted more out of spiteful reasons than financial ones."


So I see this chatter as a nonsensical attempt to vilify Marvel in order to paint Fox as some poor martyr. Is Sony a martyr? Because Sony and Marvel sure seem to be getting along swimmingly.

If people really cared about the FF they would have bought enough comics to keep the title afloat.

Wasn't that website the one to report Fox wanted Trank out and the film a mess by a Fox exec? I think they are genuine in how they don't like how either side is treating the Ff.

 

[Spiderine]

Is it just me or are they just showing the same footage over and over again?

Where's Domashev????

LOL......this what I'm tripping on. Its the same lame footage. Is it supposed to be more exciting this time or something?

LOOK EVERYBODY.....Its the FF and their powers again! You didn't see this back in 2005!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

LOL......this what I'm tripping on. Its the same lame footage. Is it supposed to be more exciting this time or something?

LOOK EVERYBODY.....Its the FF and their powers again! You didn't see this back in 2005!

I don't think we're the target audience. We've already seen this plus a lot more, so it's not going to change our perception of the film one way or the other.

But to the large part of the population that doesn't even know a Fantastic Four film is coming out, I think it works better than anything we've seen so far. Sure, it doesn't show much, but it looks like the Fantastic Four, and that should be enough to interest casual fans.

They edited it in a way that makes it look like it's a Fantastic Four film and not a film about a bunch of mopey twenty-somethings dealing with disabilities.

Of course if anyone who hadn't heard about the film gets interested enough to do some research and find out more about the film, they're likely to be disappointed, but I know that if that was the first and only thing I had seen related to this film, it would have worked much better than that awful first trailer.

 

[Zarex]

You're really on a mission.

Okay this statement right here is what makes this article a waste of time:

"At the end of the day, one could argue that this strategy was enacted more out of spiteful reasons than financial ones."

Since when is it spite for a company to focus on its most profitable product? Marvel no longer controls the fate of the FF. Is that not clear based on this film? So they're cutting they're losses and moving on. That's not spite. That's common sense. Complaining about this is nerd entitlement.

Listen, I love the FF. They're my favorite super team. But they're from another era. Maybe I am too. I don't know who these characters are in this film but they don't resemble the FF to me. Fox has gone out of their way to NOT have them resemble the FF. But all is not lost. I can still enjoy the FF stories the rest of my life because I have an entire collection of FF comics from issue 1 all the way to Hickman's run. And as a matter of fact I just bought the new release of Marvel Masterworks Fantastic Four Volume 17 hardcover published by Marvel not two days ago.

So I see this chatter as a nonsensical attempt to vilify Marvel in order to paint Fox as some poor martyr. Is Sony a martyr? Because Sony and Marvel sure seem to be getting along swimmingly.

If people really cared about the FF they would have bought enough comics to keep the title afloat. But no they rather belly ache about it online while never spending a dime. Meanwhile, Marvel is supposed to maintain this property's ongoing existence providing free IP to a rival studio as some sort of charity? Give me a break.

The pearl-clutching over Marvel's decision to focus on characters that actually make money for the company is ridiculous. Marvel isn't a charity. They don't have to keep low profit product lines open for people that then spend their money on FOX films.

The removal of the FF and X-Men from merchandise, animation and video games is a long term play, and will impact the ability of FOX to gain new fans for both franchises. It's a sharp business move, and will hopefully lead to Marvel's First Family occupying it's rightful place in the MCU.

 

[kevork89]

This is one spot and it's called a new generation of heroes. The main focus is the four. Not Doom. Not that hard to understand. If every spot released is the same and they use the same exact footage then by all means complain. I'll stand corrected.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

This is one spot and it's called a new generation of heroes. The main focus is the four. Not Doom. Not that hard to understand. If every spot released is the same and they use the same exact footage then by all means complain. I'll stand corrected.

Doom is a huge fan favorite. They need to sell audiences that they've actually gotten him right this time. Everything we've seen so far indicates that they HAVE NOT. And even if they have somehow nailed the Four, ruining Doom for a third time makes this an automatic fail.

 

[Quasar]

I expect like Benji Grimm rising out of a pile of rocks, Domashev will rise out of a pile of garbage. Then before he can identify himself, someone slaps a garbage bag over his head. Domashev backhands him while shouting "It's me, you fool!", then pausing as he catches his reflection in a nearby mirror, then going "Hmmmmmm..."

 

[MadVillainy]

The TV spot did make it look a lot better.
But as C Lee said it did make it seem like Johnny Storm and the other guys

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I expect like Benji Grimm rising out of a pile of rocks, Domashev will rise out of a pile of garbage. Then before he can identify himself, someone slaps a garbage bag over his head. Domashev backhands him while shouting "It's me, you fool!", then pausing as he catches his reflection in a nearby mirror, then going "Hmmmmmm..."

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

The TV spot did make it look a lot better.
But as C Lee said it did make it seem like Johnny Storm and the other guys

That's because MBJ is probably the best thing this film has going for it. Ironic I think considering all the strawmen thrown around on the topic of his casting. Though I still hate his arrogant statement: "They're just gonna see it anyway."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Doom is a huge fan favorite. They need to sell audiences that they've actually gotten him right this time. Everything we've seen so far indicates that they HAVE NOT. And even if they have somehow nailed the Four, ruining Doom for a third time makes this an automatic fail.

Yep, this would be a key for me.

If they could show me something to illustrate Doom is close to what I'd like to see, that could dramatically shift my opinion of this film for the better.

At the moment, I don't feel I have any reason to expect Doom will be much - if any - better than the lousy version we saw in the first two films.

 

[RAE072]

Yep, this would be a key for me.

If they could show me something to illustrate Doom is close to what I'd like to see, that could dramatically shift my opinion of this film for the better.

At the moment, I don't feel I have any reason to expect Doom will be much - if any - better than the lousy version we saw in the first two films.

Probably way, way worse.

At least McMahon was NAMED Von Doom and he at least looked pretty cool, in a decent enough modernization of the classic Doom look.

Evil businessman/"getting powers at the same time as the other four" crap not withstanding.

We've just further downgraded now.

 

[Spiderine]

I don't think we're the target audience. We've already seen this plus a lot more, so it's not going to change our perception of the film one way or the other.

But to the large part of the population that doesn't even know a Fantastic Four film is coming out, I think it works better than anything we've seen so far. Sure, it doesn't show much, but it looks like the Fantastic Four, and that should be enough to interest casual fans.

They edited it in a way that makes it look like it's a Fantastic Four film and not a film about a bunch of mopey twenty-somethings dealing with disabilities.

Of course if anyone who hadn't heard about the film gets interested enough to do some research and find out more about the film, they're likely to be disappointed, but I know that if that was the first and only thing I had seen related to this film, it would have worked much better than that awful first trailer.

Yeah but this is sort of the problem I see here Willie. They figure that die hard fans like you and me will see it anyways. So.....market it towards the GA. I understand that but there's still a large contingent of that audience who were interested the first time around has very little interests in seeing a reboot that really looks like a rehash of those Story films. You could gain some of those back maybe. Kids are not gonna go goo goo over this film. Then you have a new audience of people eating up these films that are going to obviously compare it to such films like Avengers/GOTG and doesn't see the exciting appeal in comparison

I just don't see much of them supporting it either. The reboot factor really kills it IMO more than anything. I have actually lowered my numbers for this film.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah but this is sort of the problem I see here Willie. They figure that die hard fans like you and me will see it anyways. So.....market it towards the GA.

This is one of the main reasons I will never support this film. From the beginning I've never felt more disrespected as a fan by the people producing a film that in theory is supposed to be geared towards me. The hubris and devil-may-care approach to the material that they have demonstrated assured long ago they would not get my ticket purchase.

 

[kevork89]

I agree in regards to being a fan and not being happy. But GA now is waaaay bigger than gearing towards the die hard fans. Who make up a small percentage of the total people seeing this movie. Of course they shouldn't make a movie and ostracize the fans but business wise it's also smarter to try and appeal to every person out there and obviously that's the route Fox is going. No one person will be happy. Just like some people are saying Marvel doing what they're doing to F4 and X-Men is good business but they're ostracizing their loyal fans who read their comics. At the end of the day Fox and Marvel need to make smart business decisions and it looks like the ones getting screwed in the end are the loyal and die hard fans.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah but this is sort of the problem I see here Willie. They figure that die hard fans like you and me will see it anyways.

This is one of the main reasons I will never support this film. From the beginning I've never felt more disrespected as a fan by the people producing a film that in theory is supposed to be geared towards me. The hubris and devil-may-care approach to the material that they have demonstrated assured long ago they would not get my ticket purchase.

If this film had turned out differently - with more respect shown for the source material in the product (or at the very least some attempt to BS us by those involved), I think the "they'll see it anyway" would have been long forgotten.

But that statement at the beginning of the project followed by image after image and description after description that are nothing like the Fantastic Four combined with an arrogant attitude by those involved with not even a pretense of giving a damn what we think has resulted in "they'll see it anyway" becoming symbolic of this film and the studio's attitude.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

I think they should change the title to - JOHNNY.....and two or three other people

The TV spot did make it look a lot better.
But as C Lee said it did make it seem like Johnny Storm and the other guys

The Human Torch and his Fantastic Friends?

All they'd need is some 80's era animation and theme song.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I had a really good descussion about the the X-men/Fantastic Four merch rights in another thread... and here's what basically was discussed

is there any feasible explanation that this has nothing to do with the film rights? Because I cannot see how this will effect the films box office at all. Those films sell themselves now, and its not like someone isn't going to go see them because there isn't a comic book out currently. The movies now beget more comic fans than the other way around

it's not about "not seeing them" it's about cross promoting.

you severely underestimate how Merch rights are strong advertising for film and television. the movie can sell the toys.. but the toys can also sell the movie...

for instance.. the Fantastic Four film's merch sold better than the film did...

the X-men movies have always had pretty poor merch... and those films also have never been "massive financial successes" either. Some do well, don't get me wrong, but they've never hit Avengers or Spider-Man numbers.

hell most of the cartoons we grew up with were created to sell merch. many even started off as toys before even becoming a tv show

Assuming it is a film rights vendetta, I think Marvel wouldn't want to give the films any extra publicity through their various avenues such as comics, merchandise, animation, video games and so on.

I guess their strategy would be less publicity and media presences for the films might weaken awareness for the film. With less people seeing the films it may force Fox into a position to either collaborate with Marvel like Sony or let the rights lapse eventually like they did with Daredevil.

I don't think that it is Marvels strategy but it is the is the only one I can come up with for your question

honestly.. its smart from a business standpoint... and i can't say i wouldn't do the same

it just sucks hard for the fans. but it is what it is

I remember as a kid how big the X-Men cartoon series was in the 90's. I had toys, Pizza Hut X-Men men cups, video games and other merchandise.

Kids at my school who had never read any X-Men comic were excited for the movies because they grew up watching the cartoon series.

and i'd guarantee if the cartoons and toys didn't exist.. and it was just the comic... the films wouldn't have done half of what they've done...

consumerism birthed our generation with merch... and is now reaping a 2nd helping of benefits... we all wanted the toys and cartoons.. now we are all going back for nostalgia...

Yeah, my friends have always used the animated series as the basis for their X-Men source. It had insane impact.

I find the number of mutant related SW tie-ins interesting if they're planning to get rid of them. Perhaps it's just a nice farewell.

you're forgetting about an important demographic though... Children-Tweens who will later shape the industry... when they get older they want what they grew up with (like we do) and usually don't care about other past generations nostalgia..

its sort of like how in ancient times when a war would happen, the city would be pillaged, the men would be killed, and the women raped... to give birth to children who would likely favor the same nationality they are.... this is sort of like the corporate version of that....

it's horrific.. but was effective at the time. I see a similar pattern with this... the whole "get them while they're young" aspect..

So right now it doesn't make too much sense.. but it's going to be a different story with future generations.

With the exception of the MCU breaking out lesser known characters into the mainstream (GOTG) this younger generation will have very similar properties and characters as 80s/90s kids. From 80s reboots and cartoon franchises like Transformers, to Harley Quinn and Deapdool. These characters are keeping their appeal and just getting more popular. Of course the new versions of films will be their main introduction but I am not too sure how much the actual comics play into the younger demo right now. Surely nowhere near the appeal of the films. Alot of comic buyers are an older demo.

that's because most of it hasn't died... but that also being said... Harley Quinn is kinda a different story.. she's currently not in the cartoons.. but for the teen < generation she's definitely around... but the >tween generation... she's not.

you have to really keep min mind what the >tween generation is exposed to... our teenage years didn't really shape our nostalgia.. it was our childhood that did. And right now there's nothing currently on tv or G to PG things featuring Harley Quinn..

has Deadpool appeared on the Spider-Man Cartoon? because i've seen a few kids with DP bookbags and i have no idea how they know anything about him (though it could be from there parents who knows)

but yeah... kids are exposed to what's on tv.. what they can see in movies, and toys.

I think Harley has gotten a massive boost because of the Arkham games and the excellent rep of Batman TAS. Parents like showing their kids what they grew up with and those Arkham games are insanely popular and highly rated.

With Deadpool the social media trends of people posting cosplay videos and youtubers like Pewdiepie playing his game have gotten millions of hits and definitely boosted his popularity over the years with younger crowds. Some of them grab 12-17 million views. So that's helped him quite a bit. He's been in a few cartoons, Ultimate SPidey and The Hulk Vs film as well.

Both those two are hot sellers with Hot Topic and the social media trenders. So they definitely play into the teen crowd as you said. But I think that also grabs younger kids, since they are growing up always connected to video and social media. My friends kids don't have phones but always have a tablet with them, and prefer to just watch youtube reaction videos all day. Even with a big screen TV and PS4 or XBOX in front of them. I don't get it. A lot of those reaction vids are on comic characters be it news, trailers or video games, so I think that plays heavily on that demo. Curious on how their viewing habits of today will change the industry in a decade or two. I'm guessing good bye physical comics.

id argue hot-topic and nearly all you listed aside from social media, is the teen crowd.. not the kids - preteen crowd

You're right I don't know anything about merchandise. In this case though, if Marvel avoids the toys and just does comics, wouldn't that work out in their favour? X-men is one of the best selling comics right? I know it used to be anyway, and wouldn't losing those sales hurt them more? I would think (again not knowing anything about merch) that if anything there is a better chance the movies would cause them to sell more comics than the other way around. I imagine after DOFP, Marvel suddenly sold a lot more TPB's of that story than prior.

here's the thing about comic sales... you may have a best seller.. but what's a best seller now, is making far less than best sellers 10 and 20 years ago... its also part of the reason the prices sky rocketed on comics over the last 10 years.

Marvel IS avoiding X-men toys.. in favor of just comics... they characters are still in the comics.. just the merch is being cut. They arn't losing sales on X-men comics.. comic readers don't need movies or toys to get into comics... it's a pretty loyal self-sustaining community. Movie DO help comic sales.. but Marvel wants FOX to stop making money off their properties.. and can make MORE money off their properties if they're in house.

So ideally it's best for Marvel to keep the X-men and F4 restricted to the comics... merge or water them down into other groups (like they did with putting the X-men in the Avengers, splitting up the F4 into different teams, etc... delude the property. Stop the cartoons, the merch... let them sorta fade away in the minds of the general audience.

Kids want merch after they see it in tv or film if it's not available to them, they forget about it and move on to the next movie that does have the merch.

So by deluding the comics, and stopping the merch it's the best move to try to get ... lets say the most probable one... the Fantastic Four, to return home. If the movie bombs (which it very well could) FOX has no viable reason to keep it... it comes home and BOOM... Marvel rejuvenates the nostalgia wagon and makes a big-to do about the F4 returning to comics, movies, and merch... and suddenly they built alot of hype and a major cash cow...

similar thing could happen one day with the X-men

it's not about the now... but the future. 5, 10, 20 years down the road... Marvel i think is making a pretty smart move. sucks for us.. but business wise.. its very smart.

The comics are a much smaller part of Marvel's over all business these days. As Spiderboy said comics don't usually sell anywhere near as much as they did in the past despite the whole comic book movie boom.

Merchandising, licencing and movies are far more profitable than the comics. The Fantastic Four wasn't a big seller any more so was easier to get rid of. The X-Men comics are still too popular to cancel completely.

The movies don't really help individual issue sales that much. The biggest bump is in the collected trade stories.

I'd have to see numbers on the stuff, but I really only listed games, cartoons and Social Media. And the game part plays heavily into Social media nowadays with kids in particular. Obviously not 3 year olds, but def more then just the teen crowd. I don't really see how kids are unaware of that stuff with a computer always on their hands. Personally I've seen quite the opposite. Kids get a lot of their entertainment from youtube and for sure watch Ultimate Spidey and play Lego Marvel or Batman.

ok startin to make more sense now, thanks

I wonder, is that due to an overall decline in popularity of comics in general, or because the comics themselves have declined in quality - a lot of people aren't very happy with the direction Marvel are taking their favourites in these days.

Its ALL comics. Not just marvel. All the big houses have taken hits

All comics are in decline.

People complain about the endless events from Marvel in particular.

The reason why Marvel and DC do so many events, crossovers and tie ins these days is to get the people that do read comics to buy more as individual issues aren't selling as much.

DC/WB film producer Charles Roven brought up the other day how millions of people see the films but the best selling comics like Batman generally average 100 thousand issues in world wide sales.

A book like X-Force was only selling 17 and a half thousand issues a month worldwide earlier this year.

so yes.. it's really a long term go for marvel's best interest to keep the promoting of the X-men and the Fantastic Four at a low (or hault) it sucks for us fans.. but it's truly prepping for the future with these properties.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yep, this would be a key for me.

If they could show me something to illustrate Doom is close to what I'd like to see, that could dramatically shift my opinion of this film for the better.

At the moment, I don't feel I have any reason to expect Doom will be much - if any - better than the lousy version we saw in the first two films.

A proper Latverian monarch Doom would get me interested in this film. Since I haven't seen anything resembling that, either he isn't going to be in the film or they have really bungled the marketing.

 

[RAE072]

But GA now is waaaay bigger than gearing towards the die hard fans.

And they turned out in droves to see a talking raccoon and tree wise crack it up in space.

The GA will see whatever the hell is presented to them as long as it looks interesting and new and shiny.

Their opinion on the source material and how faithful a movie adaptation to it is means less than dick.

So why not throw the long time fans a bone and actually put in effort to make your thing look like the thing they love as much as possible outside of bare minimum?

Unless their ego is far too big to do that.