Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[Paradox1]

The effects were going to be done by a team using OTOY. They had to call in a Weta team. And spend an extra twenty million+. And reshoot some of the climax.

It's pretty safe to say the OTOY thing was a poor decision.

Do you think they have Weta on retainer or something? That is not how it works, a SFX crew that with that much prestige and notoriety has to be booked well in advance. Weta has been on this since nearly the beginning. I remember their name being dropped during principle photography.

 

[TeeKay]

Oh I definitely did.

Mopey 20 somethings burdened with the curse of amazing powers disabilities.

Fits the theme well.

Glad to meet a fellow Linkin Park fan. I really hate the whole "disabilities" angle they're taking smh.

Josh Trank: "I was chosen to direct the FF. People would have looked to the characters and seen hope. I'll take that from the first. There's only one way to make this film, realistic and gritty."

 

[jaymes_e06]

Glad to meet a fellow Linkin Park fan. I really hate the whole "disabilities" angle they're taking smh.

Josh Trank: "I was chosen to direct the FF. People would have looked to the characters and seen hope. I'll take that from the first. There's only one way to make this film, realistic and gritty."

Did anyone read the bolded part with Heath Ledgers Joker voice?

 

[Wheels]

I just don't like the term disabled being attached to all four of these characters. It just doesn't work for me. Sue, Johnny, and Reed can blend in and no one would notice them unless they used their powers. I prefer the term burden. People would discriminate against them because they are "super-able" and above us physically or mentally. The fear or dislike of them comes from what amazing attributes they gain exclusively. That's not a disability in my mind.

 

[batdude]

That's pretty close to it actually. Reed, Sue and Johnny are not disabled. The powers would be a burden but really they can appear normal most of the time. Don't really like the Ben analogy, but I understand it. He would get both sides of the coin. Extra abilities, but the Thing appearance on the other side of it.

 

[2094]

Forgot to say this Thursday night when I went to see Jurassic World, but my theatre (the one i use to work at by the way!) had some 3d cardboard cut outs of Fant4stic of the Four. Also the theatre usually has a mega poster they hang by the entrance and it was the Fant4stic poster. Thought it was pretty cool to see it, thought i'd let you guys know too.

 

[Docker2.0]

Let's be real: if there were to appear in the world today some guys with super powers, do people really think that they'd be treated like "disabilities." Let's be real, there would be people who would call them witches or something like that but for the most part, people would want to actually meet and see them. The Fantastic Four franchise is nothing like the Xmen which is why it makes no sense for them to meet up. Xmen take up things from a civil rights point of view while the F4 is more or less explorers. They didn't get their name just because they are a great group of people. They are the superhero take on the fantasy side and are even based on Explorers of the Unknown. Just goes to show that Fox has no idea how to take this franchise.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I just don't like the term disabled being attached to all four of these characters. It just doesn't work for me. Sue, Johnny, and Reed can blend in and no one would notice them unless they used their powers. I prefer the term burden. People would discriminate against them because they are "super-able" and above us physically or mentally. The fear or dislike of them comes from what amazing attributes they gain exclusively. That's not a disability in my mind.

But not all disabilities are the kinds others see. Some learning diabilities or genetic ones are ones only you would know.

I just saw the body horror as describing how to cope with a change in your body and how you interact with the world now.
Johnny's "mind blown" line does read as oh woe is me, I have flame powers. It's "I got this now. Watch me."

 

[kevork89]

Let's be real: if there were to appear in the world today some guys with super powers, do people really think that they'd be treated like "disabilities." Let's be real, there would be people who would call them witches or something like that but for the most part, people would want to actually meet and see them. The Fantastic Four franchise is nothing like the Xmen which is why it makes no sense for them to meet up. Xmen take up things from a civil rights point of view while the F4 is more or less explorers. They didn't get their name just because they are a great group of people. They are the superhero take on the fantasy side and are even based on Explorers of the Unknown. Just goes to show that Fox has no idea how to take this franchise.

F4 and X-Men can crossover seeing as how Marvel did it with their whole comic universe. Wolverine, F4 show up in Avengers. Spider-Man has shown up with F4 etc so I don't get how that won't work with the movies between F4 and X-Men.

 

[Mystique's Leg]

I think approaching the powers of the FF as 'disabilities' could be interesting. It's all about how our perception of what a (visible or not so visible) disability really is.

A lot of people see a 'disability' as something bad, as something that's missing and have pity. Even the word 'disability' expresses that.

From a more positive point of view, non-disabled persons can learn so much from people with a disability and people with a disability can even exceed those with no disability. For example, I'd rather be navigated by a blind man in a room full of fire and smoke in which I can't see a thing than being navigated by a seeing man. Or, interpreting and experiencing music while having authism is a very interesting and unique enrichment to the studies of music and maths. Another one, someone without legs could easily outrun someone with legs by the use of prosthetics meaning the 'dis-abled' wins from the 'abled'. Having superpowers could be viewed by the public as strange, weird and cause pity and unease (especially with the Thing), just like a disability. At the same time, that what is not 'normal' (= superpowers or a disability) could be presented as a fresh and unique way of experiencing life, a way from which people with no superpowers or disability can learn a lot.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

There are an infinite number of interesting stories that could be crafted from these characters.

A talented film-maker could make an amazing film that told a two-hour story of Reed as a child and delved into the difficulties of functioning in a public-school setting as the must intelligent person on the planet.

That could be a fascinating, poignant, fun, funny Oscar-worthy film if done right.

. . . but it wouldn't be a Fantastic Four film. It wouldn't capture the elements that drew readers to FF comic books.

If this film is going to call itself "Fantastic Four" the primary goal should be to capture the elements that enticed people to spend their allowances and yard-work money on Fantastic Four comic books.

Nobody ever bought a Fantastic Four comic book to read about how 'difficult' it is to deal with their powers.

The concept of having trouble dealing with powers is a Hollywood cliche'. We saw it in X-Men. We saw it in Spider-man. We saw it in Man of Steel. We saw it in Hulk etc. etc. etc. We saw it in the first FF film for God's sake.

The idea that the concept is fresh or original is complete BS, and, In my opinion, it has no place in a Fantastic Four film.

 

[kevork89]

Yes but every character that is born/given/burdened etc with a great power will find it difficult to deal with. It's a part of the characters journey and struggle to accept it. It makes the characters more relatable to the audience if they struggle and then overcome that and rise to greatness. It might be a Hollywood cliche but we eat it up because who doesn't love seeing someone overcome adversary? Yes they are fantastic but getting that kind of power would be intimidating. They'll accept their powers and use them to do good that's the whole point and journey of the character. Fox obviously feels like showing this again with these characters. Not every character just goes wow I have a power. Not everyone wants to be great. Most people in the world just want to be normal. Whatever normal is.

 

[Docker2.0]

F4 and X-Men can crossover seeing as how Marvel did it with their whole comic universe. Wolverine, F4 show up in Avengers. Spider-Man has shown up with F4 etc so I don't get how that won't work with the movies between F4 and X-Men.

Sorry but the XMen are supposedly hated by everyone. I never understood why people love the F4 and Avengers but hated mutants. How can anyone tell that Reed Richards is not a mutant or got his powers from cosmic rays? They don't fit in well with each other, especially in the cinematic universe. That's like Archie crossing over with the Punisher. That's the most unlikely, oddest crossover ever.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Nobody ever bought a Fantastic Four comic book to read about how 'difficult' it is to deal with their powers.

The concept of having trouble dealing with powers is a Hollywood cliche'. We saw it in X-Men. We saw it in Spider-man. We saw it in Man of Steel. We saw it in Hulk etc. etc. etc. We saw it in the first FF film for God's sake.

The idea that the concept is fresh or original is complete BS, and, In my opinion, it has no place in a Fantastic Four film.

Totally agree! That was one of the earliest bits of news that came out about the plot of this film and I still scratch my head over it. That was Josh Trank's big "vision"?

 

[kevork89]

Sorry but the XMen are supposedly hated by everyone. I never understood why people love the F4 and Avengers but hated mutants. How can anyone tell that Reed Richards is not a mutant or got his powers from cosmic rays? They don't fit in well with each other, especially in the cinematic universe. That's like Archie crossing over with the Punisher. That's the most unlikely, oddest crossover ever.

I agree I always found it strange but they managed to make them crossover in the comics so if they thought about it, it could work. I much prefer X-Men separate anyway. I also found it strange that the X-Men were born with their gifts and hated/feared but the rest just get super powers somehow or are made from alien technology or are gods from another realm and that's all ok lol. It's weird and hypocritical and never made much sense in the comics for me either.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I agree I always found it strange but they managed to make them crossover in the comics so if they thought about it, it could work. I much prefer X-Men separate anyway. I also found it strange that the X-Men were born with their gifts and hated/feared but the rest just get super powers somehow or are made from alien technology or are gods from another realm and that's all ok lol. It's weird and hypocritical and never made much sense in the comics for me either.

Yeah they make it work in the comics but it always stretched credulity a bit for me.

 

[Spiderine]

I think the whole angle with humans and their hatred or more like fear of the mutants were that these advanced humans were evolving because they were born with these gifts. It made them believe that normal humans were on the verge of extinction. They don't understand whats causing it. And felt better to eradicate them before it continues to spread.

At least thats what I kind of get out of it. Still really shouldn't make a difference with the distinction between mutants and other heroes/villains with power. They would pass those abilities on to their children to. So.....doesn't make entirely a lot of sense.

 

[Kermit_The_Frog]

Sorry but the XMen are supposedly hated by everyone. I never understood why people love the F4 and Avengers but hated mutants. How can anyone tell that Reed Richards is not a mutant or got his powers from cosmic rays? They don't fit in well with each other, especially in the cinematic universe. That's like Archie crossing over with the Punisher. That's the most unlikely, oddest crossover ever.

I always analyzed it as that the X-Men were the next step in Human Evolution. Their existence was a living reminder that the Humans' time on Earth is almost over. The humans fear this and respond the way they do to Mutants.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Despite all of this there's been endless debate whether or not Fox even has the license to do a crossover between the characters. There are legalities involved here I find most fans don't even consider and it's a question that has a lot of merit especially in light of the constant backpedaling by Fox on this very topic.

 

[Mystique's Leg]

There are an infinite number of interesting stories that could be crafted from these characters.

A talented film-maker could make an amazing film that told a two-hour story of Reed as a child and delved into the difficulties of functioning in a public-school setting as the must intelligent person on the planet.

That could be a fascinating, poignant, fun, funny Oscar-worthy film if done right.

. . . but it wouldn't be a Fantastic Four film. It wouldn't capture the elements that drew readers to FF comic books.

If this film is going to call itself "Fantastic Four" the primary goal should be to capture the elements that enticed people to spend their allowances and yard-work money on Fantastic Four comic books.

Nobody ever bought a Fantastic Four comic book to read about how 'difficult' it is to deal with their powers.

The concept of having trouble dealing with powers is a Hollywood cliche'. We saw it in X-Men. We saw it in Spider-man. We saw it in Man of Steel. We saw it in Hulk etc. etc. etc. We saw it in the first FF film for God's sake.

The idea that the concept is fresh or original is complete BS, and, In my opinion, it has no place in a Fantastic Four film.

Well, I bought Fantastic Four comic books because I wanted to read about how 'difficult' it is to deal with powers. For example, I like how Invisible Girl becomes Invisible Woman over the years and learns how to use her powers in new ways. Of course there's more: team dynamics, family ties, battling supervillains, fantastical explorations, mindless cool action scenes,... . These are things I consider to be essential to the FF and I think this new movie will have these elements to some degree (going by the trailers). The basics can be the same as the first FF movie (= discovering their new powers), but it all comes down to the execution of it in which you can be original.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yes but every character that is born/given/burdened etc with a great power will find it difficult to deal with. It's a part of the characters journey and struggle to accept it. It makes the characters more relatable to the audience if they struggle and then overcome that and rise to greatness. It might be a Hollywood cliche but we eat it up because who doesn't love seeing someone overcome adversary? Yes they are fantastic but getting that kind of power would be intimidating. They'll accept their powers and use them to do good that's the whole point and journey of the character. Fox obviously feels like showing this again with these characters. Not every character just goes wow I have a power. Not everyone wants to be great. Most people in the world just want to be normal. Whatever normal is.

This may all be true, but when someone is telling a story they choose what to show and what not to show.

In Jaws, city boys Brody and Hooper had to deal with going to the bathroom in either a tiny squalid on-board facility or more likely over the edge of the boat. That's a reality that anyone spending several days on a small, run-down fishing boat would have to deal with and it likely made an emotional impact on Brody and Hooper . . . yet we didn't see that in the film.

There was a clear intent of The Fantastic Four comic books and that clear intent was to tell fun, out-of-this world fantasy-adventure stories. The intent was never to tell the harsh reality of radiation sickness, cancer and death that would result from large amounts of radiation.

As I mentioned, superhero films are obsessed with the 'problems' associated with being superheroes to the point it has become cliche'. This isn't a fresh and original take. It's the same thing we've been getting from most comic book films for the past 15 years.

If I were making this film and someone asked me: "What's this story about? What will make it unique?"

The answer to both those questions would be the same single word answer: "Doom"

The primary conflict of every comic book I've ever read has been the villain and Doom is one of the best we've ever seen.

We haven't seen a truly great comic book villain yet (I had hoped Ultron would be that villain, but we saw how that worked out), so previous efforts have left the door wide open for a comic book film like we've never seen before.

Let's not spend time futzing around with the characters and their minor problems. Let's focus on the real conflict - the threat posed by a villain that's scary as s*** if done right and the threat he poses to the world if our heroes can't defy the odds and stop him.

Unfortunately it looks like we're going to get something that is very much like films we've seen before.

 

[Marvin]

There was a clear intent of The Fantastic Four comic books and that clear intent was to tell fun, out-of-this world fantasy-adventure stories. The intent was never to tell

All you are describing is what's different, and possibly why you and people like you think you won't like it. I think these other people are in a discussion as to why it's a weak idea or why it's a cool/interesting/valid one. There is a difference.

I just don't like the term disabled being attached to all four of these characters. It just doesn't work for me. Sue, Johnny, and Reed can blend in and no one would notice them unless they used their powers. I prefer the term burden. People would discriminate against them because they are "super-able" and above us physically or mentally. The fear or dislike of them comes from what amazing attributes they gain exclusively. That's not a disability in my mind.

You missed Ben.
However the term disabled doesn't simply apply to someones ability to blend it. I think too many people are choosing to look at powers in a simple classic perfect way.
If someone gave you super hearing tmr(say after an accident) and you had no way of 'controlling' it....presto.
Same with Xray vision, same with telepathy. The main difference with mutants is they have a lifetime to adapt. We saw a similar premise in MoS. Sure it may make people that want super fun and exactly what they saw in another take annoyed, but it's perfectly valid as far as the premise goes.
If you can't control your ability to turn visible again
If you can't keep your body from being silly putty
If you can't turn off the fire...
It's beyond obvious and all of that is canon in some form even if for a brief while, yet here we are it seems.
This isn't power rangers.

 

[Flint Marko]

Despite all of this there's been endless debate whether or not Fox even has the license to do a crossover between the characters. There are legalities involved here I find most fans don't even consider and it's a question that has a lot of merit especially in light of the constant backpedaling by Fox on this very topic.

Over in the X-men section, people are beyond confident that a crossover is inevitable. It's fascinating.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Over in the X-men section, people are beyond confident that a crossover is inevitable. It's fascinating.

LOL. Indeed. I guess we'll see what happens (and I don't really care one way or the other) but my money is on it ain't happening without a new deal. I wouldn't be surprised if behind-the-scenes negotiations have been attempted on all of this. Perhaps it's still happening. Or perhaps talks have broken down completely. What happened to that X-Factor TV show that was supposedly a done deal?

 

[Zarex]

Over in the X-men section, people are beyond confident that a crossover is inevitable. It's fascinating.

There was one poster in particular that was pushing a combined X-Men/FF universe on a daily basis, and his ambitious vision would have sent 21st Century into bankruptcy. That poster is on "vacation".