Fant4stic Fantastic Four 2?

[Panacea]

The problem is that there is no way to avoid embarrassment.

Fox's choices:

1. Let the rights revert to Marvel. Suffer major embarassment.
2. Make a new Fantastic Four film which is guaranteed to bomb. Suffer major embarassment AND lose tens of millions of dollars.

Either way, Fox loses. There is no way in which Fox comes out of this looking good.

3. Strike a rights sharing deal like Sony did.

 

[Zarex]

3. Strike a rights sharing deal like Sony did.

The rights dealing arrangement came about because Spidey is the world's most popular superhero, earning over a billion in revenue annually through merchandising licensing. The Mouse couldn't afford to let Peter continue down the path he was heading with Sony. They had to step in.

I love the FF, but they have had no successful films and have never moved merchandise. Disney has absolutely no incentive to bail FOX out. And a profit sharing arrangement is a terrible idea given the awful state the franchise is in. It would ensure the next FF film is yet again a money loser.

KR is correct. FOX is out of options.

 

[AlluAllu]

I'm nearly certain Fox's license very specifically includes the "live-action film rights" and nothing else.

Marvel might have agreed to not make their own animated feature as long as Fox has the live action rights, but I'm nearly 100% certain ( based on many things I've read ) that Fox's rights are live-action only.

Thanks. I've been thinking that animation might be the best choice for the FF. Their thing is being imaginauts and it might still be too challenging/expensive to create digital worlds that could pass of as live action. Plus with animation they perhaps could emulate Kirby's iconic style.

And animations are usually made to be suitable for children and I believe Fantastic Four to be most family friendly of Marvel's big franchises.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The rights dealing arrangement came about because Spidey is the world's most popular superhero, earning over a billion in revenue annually through merchandising licensing. The Mouse couldn't afford to let Peter continue down the path he was heading with Sony. They had to step in.

I love the FF, but they have had no successful films and have never moved merchandise. Disney has absolutely no incentive to bail FOX out. And a profit sharing arrangement is a terrible idea given the awful state the franchise is in. It would ensure the next FF film is yet again a money loser.

KR is correct. FOX is out of options.

I think a Sony-type deal would include X-Men, but that seemed more likely in late 2015 than now (and I think I need to readjust my attitude because I think I'm still sort of living in the past).

In late 2015, there seemed to be a new sense of cooperation between the studios and the setting of Deadpool seemed ambiguous and I was imagining a scenario in which Fox ended the mess they were creating and started fresh with new X-Films that ignored that sloppy past and rebooted in the MCU.

But that doesn't seem to be happening now and Fox seems determined to fumble blindly and continue with their poorly designed and highly confusing reality.

And as for FF specifically, now that we're getting closer to the reversion date every day, there is decreasing reason for Marvel to do any cooperative deal because they can just wait and get those rights back in a few more years.

A deal in 2015 would have allowed them to integrate Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer etc. into Infinity Wars, but now that it seems very unlikely that will happen in time, there's no reason to not wait a little longer.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

I believe he's been cast in Infinity War.

Oh, OK.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

The rights dealing arrangement came about because Spidey is the world's most popular superhero, earning over a billion in revenue annually through merchandising licensing. The Mouse couldn't afford to let Peter continue down the path he was heading with Sony. They had to step in.

I love the FF, but they have had no successful films and have never moved merchandise. Disney has absolutely no incentive to bail FOX out. And a profit sharing arrangement is a terrible idea given the awful state the franchise is in. It would ensure the next FF film is yet again a money loser.

KR is correct. FOX is out of options.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

What did he cross over to then?

Peter Dinklage played Bolivar Trask in X-Men: Days of Futures Past, and has been tapped for Avengers: Infinity War, rumored to be playing Pip the Troll, who features in Starlin's work for Warlock that included Thanos.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Oh, OK.

I didn't know either.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Peter Dinklage played Bolivar Trask in X-Men: Days of Futures Past, and has been tapped for Avengers: Infinity War, rumored to be playing Pip the Troll, who features in Starlin's work for Warlock that included Thanos.

I didn't know either.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

The problem is that there is no way to avoid embarrassment.

Fox's choices:

1. Let the rights revert to Marvel. Suffer major embarassment.
2. Make a new Fantastic Four film which is guaranteed to bomb. Suffer major embarassment AND lose tens of millions of dollars.

Either way, Fox loses. There is no way in which Fox comes out of this looking good.

 

[bubbadoom]

3. Strike a rights sharing deal like Sony did.

4. Trade the FF for X-Men TV rights...

 

[Matt]

I think a Sony-type deal would include X-Men, but that seemed more likely in late 2015 than now (and I think I need to readjust my attitude because I think I'm still sort of living in the past).

In late 2015, there seemed to be a new sense of cooperation between the studios and the setting of Deadpool seemed ambiguous and I was imagining a scenario in which Fox ended the mess they were creating and started fresh with new X-Films that ignored that sloppy past and rebooted in the MCU.

But that doesn't seem to be happening now and Fox seems determined to fumble blindly and continue with their poorly designed and highly confusing reality.

And as for FF specifically, now that we're getting closer to the reversion date every day, there is decreasing reason for Marvel to do any cooperative deal because they can just wait and get those rights back in a few more years.

A deal in 2015 would have allowed them to integrate Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer etc. into Infinity Wars, but now that it seems very unlikely that will happen in time, there's no reason to not wait a little longer.

If you think for a second that Fox is going to part ways with the X-Men franchise or share a piece of that pie, I have a bridge to sell you. X-Men is really all that Fox has at this point.

4. Trade the FF for X-Men TV rights...

What incentive does Disney have to do so? You guys greatly over-estimate the value of Fantastic Four. You are looking at it from a fan perspective. It needs to be looked at from a business perspective.

Disney has no incentive to help their competitor build the X-Men franchise. If anything, Disney wants to reduce the value of the X-Men franchise to Fox in order to see the rights revert, as X-Men is popular. By helping Fox keep the X-Men franchise afloat, Disney is making reversion all the less likely.

So what is Disney's incentive for doing so? This isn't Spider-Man that we're talking about, a franchise that can make a billion dollars in a single movie. Fantastic Four is a franchise that didn't make in three movies, what Spider-Man has made in one. Hell, forget Spider-Man, Fantatic Four is a franchise that in three movies has made about as much money as obscure properties like Dr. Strange and Antman do in a single movie. This is a franchise that, in three movies, made less money than a property that no one had ever heard of that focuses on a friggin talking raccoon. Why on Earth would Disney help Fox keep X-Men away from them in exchange for THAT?

Now, your response is going to be that with Disney at the helm, Fantastic Four could make Dr. Strange numbers. But that's the point. Disney doesn't need Fantastic Four to make Dr. Strange numbers. Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange have proven that Disney can take ANYTHING and make a killing. Disney could take the Rocket Racer and turn it into a viable franchise. It doesn't need to bargain for Fantastic Four to make a 700 + million dollar movie.

In short, this isn't a cash cow like Spider-Man we're talking about here, where it is worth it to share, despite the headaches that come with sharing another studio's IP. The numbers don't justify it and Disney certainly doesn't need Fantastic Four's rights.

In fact, Disney doesn't need anything Fox has. But do you know what Disney wants? The X-Men. Because that opens up a second Avengers-type of franchise for them. X-Men, in the hands of Disney, could pull in Avengers numbers. And all the spin-off movies could pull in Captain America numbers. And Wolverine's solo, in Disney's hands, could pull in Spider-Man/Batman numbers.

Therefore, it makes no business sense for Disney to do something that makes X-Men more profitable for Fox in exchange for a franchise that means nothing to Disney and isn't particularly profitable (if profitable at all). Disney wants X-Men to start failing. That is how Disney gets X-Men back. By it becoming so unprofitable that Fox stops making it and rights reverse or Fox is forced to liquidate the rights by selling them back. It doesn't get X-Men back by giving Fox something that makes it more profitable and successful in exchange for a worthless franchise.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If you think for a second that Fox is going to part ways with the X-Men franchise or share a piece of that pie, I have a bridge to sell you. X-Men is really all that Fox has at this point.

If they're not smart enough to recognize the value of working with Marvel, the X-Men could end up as dead as the Fantastic Four at some point.

The property isn't invincible and Fox hasn't handled their Marvel films brilliantly. They've got a lot riding on the upcoming films and there's no guarantee they'll do them right (and a lot of history suggesting they could very well f*** them up).

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

What incentive does Disney have to do so? You guys greatly over-estimate the value of Fantastic Four. You are looking at it from a fan perspective. It needs to be looked at from a business perspective.

This also goes for the Fox fans that feel like Marvel is doomed without the Fantastic Four and so want Fox to keep the rights to spite them. It isn't a big deal at all to Marvel if they don't have the Fantastic Four. Sure, they would like to have them, but from a business perspective they mean almost nothing to Marvel's future success. Marvel isn't being hurt by the Fantastic Four being at Fox. It is only the Fantastic Four fans that are being hurt.

 

[Panacea]

The rights dealing arrangement came about because Spidey is the world's most popular superhero, earning over a billion in revenue annually through merchandising licensing. The Mouse couldn't afford to let Peter continue down the path he was heading with Sony. They had to step in.

I love the FF, but they have had no successful films and have never moved merchandise. Disney has absolutely no incentive to bail FOX out. [...]

Why would they need to? You would just structure the deal accordingly. Sony gets production and distribution profits of Spider-Man films, maybe Fox only gets distribution? There are loads of ways you could make it happen.

 

[Panacea]

If they're not smart enough to recognize the value of working with Marvel, the X-Men could end up as dead as the Fantastic Four at some point.

Their X-Men movies always make money though, and they're shooting the Dark Phoenix saga later this year.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Their X-Men movies always make money though, and they're shooting the Dark Phoenix saga later this year.

again? with boy george as phoenix this time?

 

[Lineikosen]

I completely missed it, Ridiculous. FF is no Spiderman.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Their X-Men movies always make money though, and they're shooting the Dark Phoenix saga later this year.

Really? Didn't they already try that with X-Men 3: The Last Stand?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Disney is not getting the X-Men ANYTIME soon. If for nothing else, Deadpool will keep the license active at FOX for a long time. He is their Wolverine replacement, and once X-Men makes less money, they will just shove Deadpool down our throats.

 

[Zarex]

I'm not sure that Deadpool films keep the X-Men license active. He came over to FOX from Artisan via New Line long after the X-men contract was signed, and one of the rumored reasons for his solo film being put into production was that the rights were scheduled to revert. The Deadpool film came out 7 years after Wade's first appearance in XMO:W, which matches the reversion period for Daredevil and the FF. Though he's linked to X-Men proper, the character is on a separate contract.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/134...dpool-is-paying-dividends-for-disney-too.html

 

[Boom]

Between Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants, X-Men reboots, and Wolverine reboots, Marvel may not get X-Men back for a long time, if at all. It's a franchise steeped in lore, and there are a number of things Fox can do with it.

 

[Havok83]

I'm not sure that Deadpool films keep the X-Men license active. He came over to FOX from Artisan via New Line long after the X-men contract was signed, and one of the rumored reasons for his solo film being put into production was that the rights were scheduled to revert. The Deadpool film came out 7 years after Wade's first appearance in XMO:W, which matches the reversion period for Daredevil and the FF. Though he's linked to X-Men proper, the character is on a separate contract.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/134...dpool-is-paying-dividends-for-disney-too.html

His films include X-men so by its very nature, the Deadpool films are making use of the X-men license, regardless of how the character got under Fox's control. Besides he's heavily rumored to be spunoff into X-force, which without a doubt is an X-men property

Really? Didn't they already try that with X-Men 3: The Last Stand?

Bryan Singer never did

 

[Zarex]

His films include X-men so by its very nature, the Deadpool films are making use of the X-men license, regardless of how the character got under Fox's control. Besides he's heavily rumored to be spunoff into X-force, which without a doubt is an X-men property

The question was whether or not FOX could keep the X-Men contract active if they stopped making films with X:Men in the title and just made Wade sequels and spinoffs. As Deadpool wasn't a part of the 1993 cinematic licensing agreement, unlike Wolverine, Gambit and New Mutants, I don't believe his films reset the reversion clock.

 

[Havok83]

The question was whether or not FOX could keep the X-Men contract active if they stopped making films with X:Men in the title and just made Wade sequels and spinoffs. As Deadpool wasn't a part of the 1993 cinematic licensing agreement, unlike Wolverine, Gambit and New Mutants, I don't believe his films reset the reversion clock.

that doesnt matter bc they are making use of the licens through him. Colossus is without a doubt an X-men character. Ditto on Cable. X-force is an X-men based team just like the New Mutants you mentioned. Its not like they kept(are keeping) Deadpool strictly to his comicbook centric characters. They've already infused the first with quite a bit of X-men lore and it looks like they are doing so going forward with the speculated X-force being on the table. Its more than Deadpool but how they are choosing to use this all