Fast and the Furious 9: The Fast Saga

[Symbiotic]

I've got a friend who says they should reveal Ramsey as a competent hand-to-hand fighter. I'd be down. But I also feel that they could meet every demand Rodriguez has and she'd still complain.

 

[#root]

This franchise does have a history of killing off their female characters once they've been in a couple movies for dumb reasons. Happened with Rodriguez herself, with Gadot and with Pataky. Poor Brewster had to be written out even though she didn't get to do much before anyways. I wish they could've found a way to have her be in the movies but I get it would be hard to explain why Brian isn't there as well.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Letty is the strongest and most developed character after Dom, the problem for Mia is that her and Brian's story was intertwined and she is a Mom and the responsible one, so it would be difficult to suddenly have her jumping behind the wheel just for the sake of girl power, and Ramsey is no more or less competent than Roman or Tej, support characters.

It was a shame they killed off Gisele but I think they wanted to remove her and Han before the timeline met up.

 

[terry78]

What is Ramsey's role aside from being the hot object of rivalry between Roman and Tej? Tej is a hacker like she is, and is probably more competent. And she don't drive her own car.

 

[2kt09]

What is Ramsey's role aside from being the hot object of rivalry between Roman and Tej? Tej is a hacker like she is, and is probably more competent. And she don't drive her own car.

In Arrow terms, Ramsey would be Felicity and Tej would be Mr T.

 

[MadVillainy]

What is Ramsey's role aside from being the hot object of rivalry between Roman and Tej? Tej is a hacker like she is, and is probably more competent. And she don't drive her own car.

Exactly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Letty is the strongest and most developed character after Dom, the problem for Mia is that her and Brian's story was intertwined and she is a Mom and the responsible one, so it would be difficult to suddenly have her jumping behind the wheel just for the sake of girl power, and Ramsey is no more or less competent than Roman or Tej, support characters.

It was a shame they killed off Gisele but I think they wanted to remove her and Han before the timeline met up.

Letty's character is strong really? Stronger then Brian's? Also her development has to do to amount of movies, nothing else. Her story has always been tied up into Dom's.

The problem for Mia is they decided her character's value was tied up in Brain. In a a movie series where they kill off characters all the time, they couldn't do that with Brain, and thus had to get ride of Mia in the process.

Ramsey does what other then start fights over how attractive she is?

Why did they need to remove Gisele before the timelines met up?

Why did they have to do what they did to Elena? I am not even talking about the last movie. I am talking about sidelining her as irrelevant.

The series belongs to Dom, the Rock and Statham's now.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Letty's character is strong really? Stronger then Brian's? Also her development has to do to amount of movies, nothing else. Her story has always been tied up into Dom's.

The problem for Mia is they decided her character's value was tied up in Brain. In a a movie series where they kill off characters all the time, they couldn't do that with Brain, and thus had to get ride of Mia in the process.

Ramsey does what other then start fights over how attractive she is?

Why did they need to remove Gisele before the timelines met up?

Why did they have to do what they did to Elena? I am not even talking about the last movie. I am talking about sidelining her as irrelevant.

The series belongs to Dom, the Rock and Statham's now.

Yes, I'd say Letty is depicted as the toughest and best driver aside from Super Dom! All of the main 4's stories are tied into each other.

There was nothing wrong with Mia's character IMO, there has to be some characters that offer a different perspective to the rest who are all testosterone driven and macho, it was just the sad tragedy of Paul Walker that led to her being cut.

Ramsey taps away at a keyboard, same thing every other computer expert character does in action TV shows and movies, that's her gig.

They had to remove Gisele as they had no way to explain why she wasn't in the movies that took place after Han's death.

They did what they did with Elena IMO because she was fairly dull.

It's always been Dom's show, everyone else has always been window dressing bar Letty and Brian, and they were always the secondary characters to him, then Rock came in and as a very popular, larger than life movie star they've built him up in preperation to replace Dom if Diesel continues to be difficult IMO.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Bring back Gal from the dead.

It's a Universal pictures movie so they can bring her back as a Mummy

And if she does end up leaving it's her loss. This franchise is the most exposure she gets.

She can live comfortably on Fast and Furious residuals or do a "Resident Evil" spin off LOL

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes, I'd say Letty is depicted as the toughest and best driver aside from Super Dom! All of the main 4's stories are tied into each other.

There was nothing wrong with Mia's character IMO, there has to be some characters that offer a different perspective to the rest who are all testosterone driven and macho, it was just the sad tragedy of Paul Walker that led to her being cut.

Ramsey taps away at a keyboard, same thing every other computer expert character does in action TV shows and movies, that's her gig.

They had to remove Gisele as they had no way to explain why she wasn't in the movies that took place after Han's death.

They did what they did with Elena IMO because she was fairly dull.

It's always been Dom's show, everyone else has always been window dressing bar Letty and Brian, and they were always the secondary characters to him, then Rock came in and as a very popular, larger than life movie star they've built him up in preperation to replace Dom if Diesel continues to be difficult IMO.

There is a difference between being tied into someone else story, and being only there to serve another character's story. Letty has always been that. They even brought her back to do so with Dom.

Paul Walker's death did not mean they ever had to get rid of Mia.

And why is that all Ramsey does? They write the characters, they couldn't make her more then that?

Why couldn't Gisele be around post-Han's death? Why? They retconned plenty of characters into the movies....

I liked Elena quite a bit. But again, another case of the female characters only serving the male's story. Heck even take the last few villains and consider how they decided to write Theron's character as opposed to Statham's.

And it clearly hasn't always been Dom's show. He wasn't even the main character of 3 of the movies, including one he was a major part of. When Brian was around, it was at best both their show.

 

[Hunter Rider]

There is a difference between being tied into someone else story, and being only there to serve another character's story. Letty has always been that. They even brought her back to do so with Dom.

That's not true, and much of Dom's story is about Letty and their relationship.

Paul Walker's death did not mean they ever had to get rid of Mia.

Of course it did unless she suddenly decides she's gonna start racing cars and pulling heists despite Brian finally getting out of the game like she always wanted, it would be counter intuitive to who she has been since the start..

And why is that all Ramsey does? They write the characters, they couldn't make her more then that?

Because she's just a support character, like all Roman does is crack jokes and be made a fool of, and all Tej does is act like a lovesick goof around Ramsey and get all giddy over tech, not every character needs great depth, especially not in this franchise.

Why couldn't Gisele be around post-Han's death? Why? They retconned plenty of characters into the movies....

Chill dude, your post reads like you are channelling Tom Cruise in a Few Good Men, they didn't want to retcon her I guess, so what she's a woman and they killed her off instead of retconning her, it's not a crime lol.

I liked Elena quite a bit. But again, another case of the female characters only serving the male's story. Heck even take the last few villains and consider how they decided to write Theron's character as opposed to Statham's.

Eh, Cipher was easily the best villain they've done, totally cold blooded and self interested, Statham's villain became a cartoon in the space of one movie and now him and his bro are the Wonder Twins, but they aren't women so lets overlook the utter farce of how they have both been written in Fast 8, just like how no one is whining about how Roman and Tej are written as nothing but comic relief, it's silly to start taking this series so seriously because now every female characters treatment is a Grand Jury deal, the series is filled with character types not characters, their genitalia has no bearing on it.

And it clearly hasn't always been Dom's show. He wasn't even the main character of 3 of the movies, including one he was a major part of. When Brian was around, it was at best both their show.

Nah, he was by far the main one in the first movie and the 2nd and 3rd were stinky flops, this thing became a monster on the back of the focus on Dom when he returned, I can't believe anyone could rationally argue he hasn't always been the lead of this deal, the 2 duds not withstanding, his return put the franchise squarely on his back and turned it into a box office juggernaut..

 

[dude stannis]

I think they over softened both Shaw and Hobbs. Both guys went from hard asses to poop jokes and Taylor Swift concerts. But they kept them around for the added star power. I imagine their spin off far away from Diesel would treat both characters much better.

And it's not like they're just singling out the women, Vince and Han kicked the bucket too. Roman is far less competent than Letty or Ramsey.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's not true, and much of Dom's story is about Letty and their relationship.

It is true. And the Dom/Letty's relationship is about what it does to Dom.

Of course it did unless she suddenly decides she's gonna start racing cars and pulling heists despite Brian finally getting out of the game like she always wanted, it would be counter intuitive to who she has been since the start..

They didn't need to keep Brian alive. They didn't. It was a choice.

Because she's just a support character, like all Roman does is crack jokes and be made a fool of, and all Tej does is act like a lovesick goof around Ramsey and get all giddy over tech, not every character needs great depth, especially not in this franchise.

While they build up multiple male characters. That is the point. Any female character who would rise about supporting character, they kill off. They even killed off Letty until they brought her back.

Chill dude, your post reads like you are channelling Tom Cruise in a Few Good Men, they didn't want to retcon her I guess, so what she's a woman and they killed her off instead of retconning her, it's not a crime lol.

Because they consistently do this to female characters. I get that you don't really care about that bit Hunter if you having fun with the series, especially as you consider this one dumb fun, but that is very much the question at hand. They treat the female characters consistently poorly.

Eh, Cipher was easily the best villain they've done, totally cold blooded and self interested, Statham's villain became a cartoon in the space of one movie and now him and his bro are the Wonder Twins, but they aren't women so lets overlook the utter farce of how they have both been written in Fast 8, just like how no one is whining about how Roman and Tej are written as nothing but comic relief, it's silly to start taking this series so seriously because now every female characters treatment is a Grand Jury deal, the series is filled with character types not characters, their genitalia has no bearing on it.

Her entire storyline revolves around Dom, and in the worst, most bullcrap retcon way possible. I thought SPECTRE was bad at that. They figured out a way to make it way worse.

And their genitalia clearly has a bearing, because they aren't killing off the dudes every movie.

Nah, he was by far the main one in the first movie and the 2nd and 3rd were stinky flops, this thing became a monster on the back of the focus on Dom when he returned, I can't believe anyone could rationally argue he hasn't always been the lead of this deal, the 2 duds not withstanding, his return put the franchise squarely on his back and turned it into a box office juggernaut..

The first movie literally follows Brian from start to finish. We explore the first from his perspective, and the focus is his job and relationship with Mia and Dom.

I am not saying it didn't become his series, but he was not always the main character. It wasn't always his series. That is what you said and it is flat out wrong.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think they over softened both Shaw and Hobbs. Both guys went from hard asses to poop jokes and Taylor Swift concerts. But they kept them around for the added star power. I imagine their spin off far away from Diesel would treat both characters much better.

And it's not like they're just singling out the women, Vince and Han kicked the bucket too. Roman is far less competent than Letty or Ramsey.

The major female characters of the series have all either been sidelined, killed or just disappeared. All of them. Letty had to come back from the dead. Its not the same for the male characters, it isn't even close. Especially as more males become a fixture of the series, to the point of a spin off for two. One who murdered Han.

They have had less permanent female fixtures and still killed off or sidelined more of them then they have the males.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It is true. And the Dom/Letty's relationship is about what it does to Dom.

Is so! is not! Jesus dude.

They didn't need to keep Brian alive. They didn't. It was a choice.

It was about respect, and even if he was dead why would she suddenly be jumping in a car and doing something she never wanted to do other than to satiate a need for another woman character to be doing some action in this deal.

While they build up multiple male characters. That is the point. Any female character who would rise about supporting character, they kill off. They either killed of Letty until they brought her back.

There is no point, that is the point, none of these characters are remotely built up bar Dom, Letty, Brian and Mia, that's it, the rest are what Q is to Bond or Luther is to Ethan Hunt, support.

Because they consistently do this to female characters. I get that you don't really care about that bit Hunter if you having fun with the series, but that is very much the question at hand. They treat the female characters horribly.

No, they do it to support characters, they killed off Vince and Han as well, that's 2 dudes and 2 chicks from my count.

Her entire storyline revolves around Dom, and in the worst, most bullcrap retcon way possible. I thought SPECTRE was bad at that. They figured out a way to make it way worse.

Cipher went after Dom because of how certain things he did had nobbled her plans so she cut out the issue before it happened, that made her smart, and her motivations were still totally self interest and she was portrayed as a completely ruthless badass, unlike the chuckle brothers, that's a score for villainiy in this series period, no matter what they have in their pants.

And their genitalia clearly has a bearing, because they aren't killing off the dudes every movie.

Yeah, again, 2 dead dudes and 2 dead chicks, that's evens by my count.

The first movie literally follows Brian from start to finish. We explore the first from his perspective, and the focus is his job and relationship with Mia and Dom.

I am not saying it didn't become his series, but he was not always the main character. It wasn't always his series. That is what you said and it is flat out wrong.

Nah, it was his series from the start, the story being from Brian's POV doesn't mean he was the main one, Dom Han Solo'd the **** out of the first movie and that's a fact, it's always been about him, he was the interesting one with the unique moral code and odd big brother family recruitment plan, he was the character explored, Brian was merely the lens to watch Dom through, as a character he was never the main attraction.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The major female characters of the series have all either been sidelined, killed or just disappeared. All of them. Letty had to come back from the dead. Its not the same for the male characters, it isn't even close. Especially as more males become a fixture of the series, to the point of a spin off for two. One who murdered Han.

They have had less permanent female fixtures and still killed off or sidelined more of them then they have the males.

So what, it's a male driven series, again not a crime, I am sure when Charlies Angles new movie drops Bosley wont have lots of character development, it will be about the 3 female leads and nary a dude's arc in sight, and no one will complain, and fair enough, but every series out there does not have to cater to everyone on a level playing field, just like I finished the Scandal finale yesterday, every dude in that is a complete tool simply trapsing around after the powerhouse women, no big deal, it's a female driven show, that's cool, or like Mon-El in Supergirl, an incompetent goof for most of the season, merely there as Kara's love interest, no big deal, it's a role to be played in many a story, like I say, not every single show or movie series has to have everyone getting alotted the same amount of attention.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is so! is not! Jeusus dude. :funny

Serious question. Why did the actress bring it up as a bargaining chip then?

It was about respect, and even if he was dead why would she suddenly be jumping in a car and doing something she never wanted to do other than to satiate a need for another woman character to be doing some action in this deal.

Revenge?

I mean they were able to come up with a convoluted way to partner them up with a guy who killed one of their "brothers" but couldn't come up with a way to keep her in the mix?

There is no point, that is the point, none of these characters are remotely built up bar Dom, Letty, Brian and Mia, that's it, the rest are what Q is to Bond or Luther is to Ethan Hunt, support.

Hobbs and Shaw aren't built up? They build advertising around them. They have a spin off coming.

No, they do it to support characters, they killed off Vince and Han as well, that's 2 dudes and 2 chicks from my count.

You make it sound like they start at the same amount of male and female characters. They don't.

Cipher went after Dom because of how certain things he did had nobbled her plans so she cut out the issue before it happened, that made her smart, and her motivations were still totally self interest and she was portrayed as a completely ruthless badass, unlike the chuckle brothers, that's a score for villainiy in this series period, no matter what they have in their pants.

Beyond Cipher being a poor character, the obvious problem is she isn't even the primary antagonist in the movie. Her character uses Dom as the muscle. It is all about Dom's family issue.

Yeah, again, 2 dead dudes and 2 dead chicks, that's evens by my count.

Mia: Written out.
Gisele: Dead.
Elena: Dead.

That leaves Letty and Ramsey. Compared to Dom, Roman, Tej, Hobbs, Mr. Nobody and Shaw.

Its not "even" because they have less female characters, who they write out consistently. They couldn't even do a movie where Letty and Elena were both major characters. They got rid of Letty, brought in Elena, then when they brought Letty back, they got rid of Elena.

Now call all the others outside of Dom just window dressing. The point is their window dressing continues to grow for men, while the women are made disposable. Even Letty was for a couple of movies.

Even if you consider Roman and Tej nothing more then comic relief, they keep them around for comic relief. They have made Hobbs and Shaw prominent.

Nah, it was his series from the start, the story being from Brian's POV doesn't mean he was the main one, Dom Han Solo'd the **** out of the first movie and that's a fact, it's always been about him, he was the interesting one with the unique moral code and odd big brother family recruitment plan, he was the character explored, Brian was merely the lens to watch Dom through, as a character he was never the main attraction.

Which is why he was in the sequel, where we watch Brian doing the same thing.

On another note. You really need to explain Brian having more screen time and his relationship with Mia being the main romantic storyline.

And are you suggesting Han Solo was ever the main character of Star Wars? Because come on Hunter.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So what, it's a male driven series, again not a crime, I am sure when Charlies Angles new movie drops Bosley wont have lots of character development, it will be about the 3 female leads and nary a dude's arc in sight, and no one will complain, and fair enough, but every series out there does not have to cater to everyone on a level playing field, just like I finished the Scandal finale yesterday, every dude in that is a complete tool simply trapsing around after the powerhouse women, no big deal, it's a female driven show, that's cool, or like Mon-El in Supergirl, an incompetent goof for most of the season, merely there as Kara's love interest, no big deal, it's a role to be played in many a story, like I say, not every single show or movie series has to have everyone getting alotted the same amount of attention.

I didn't say it was a crime. But I wasn't the one defending it based on the merits that it is the "same" for female characters. If you are fine with it, that is cool. I watch plenty of male driven movies. The majority really. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to watch many.

But that is different then acting like the divide doesn't exist.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Serious question. Why did the actress bring it up as a bargaining chip then?

Because it's the hot topic de jour for hipsters.

Revenge?

I mean they were able to come up with a convoluted way to partner them up with a guy who killed one of their "brothers" but couldn't come up with a way to keep her in the mix?

That angle was garbage as I already said so no, I wouldn't want to kill off a character who was played by a man that died tragically just so Mia can go Death Wish and appease the agenda.

Hobbs and Shaw aren't built up? They build advertising around them. They have a spin off coming.

That's like saying Commando was a character study, they are cartoon heroes that will be used to sell an action movie, that doesn't equate to being built up.

You make it sound like they start at the same amount of male and female characters. They don't.

And they don't have to.

Beyond Cipher being a poor character, the obvious problem is she isn't even the primary antagonist in the movie. Her character uses Dom as the muscle. It is all about Dom's family issue.

No, she is the main anatagonist, she is pulling every string, like Palpatine, just becasue she isn't beating people up or driving a car doesn't negate that.

Mia: Written out.
Gisele: Dead.
Elena: Dead.

We were talking killed off, not written out.

That leaves Letty and Ramsey. Compared to Dom, Roman, Tej, Hobbs, Mr. Nobody and Shaw.

Its not "even" because they have less female characters, who they write out consistently. They couldn't even do a movie where Letty and Elena were both major characters. They got rid of Letty, brought in Elena, then when they brought Letty back, they got rid of Elena.

Now call all the others outside of Dom just window dressing. The point is their window dressing continues to grow for men, while the women are made disposable. Even Letty was for a couple of movies.

Even if you consider Roman and Tej nothing more then comic relief, they keep them around for comic relief. They have made Hobbs and Shaw prominent.

Yes because it's a male drvien franchise, which isn't a crime or a bad thing, the point was still about disposability and in the death column we have 2 each in 8 movies regardless of how many of each there is.

Which is why he was in the sequel, where we watch Brian doing the same thing.

On another note. You really need to explain Brian having more screen time and his relationship with Mia being the main romantic storyline.

And are you suggesting Han Solo was ever the main character of Star Wars? Because come on Hunter.

I don't need to explain anything mate, if you genuinely believe Brian was the main character because they made a crap cash-in sequel that failed and gave him a cliche romantic subplot I just feel you're yanking my chain!

My Han comparison was simply about which character stole the show, like Han did in ANH.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I didn't say it was a crime. But I wasn't the one defending it based on the merits that it is the "same" for female characters. If you are fine with it, that is cool. I watch plenty of male driven movies. The majority really. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to watch many.

But that is different then acting like the divide doesn't exist.

The divide doesn't exist in this franchise, Michelle Rodriguez is simply using a hot button issue to get more money for herself, which is cool but utterly false in relation to this franchise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because it's the hot topic de jour for hipsters.

Sexism is a hipster topic now?

That angle was garbage as I already said so no, I wouldn't want to kill off a character who was played by a man that died tragically just so Mia can go Death Wish and appease the agenda.

That is the thing. They killed him and Mia off. It was the same result, except she was taken out of the series as well.

That's like saying Commando was a character study, they are cartoon heroes that will be used to sell an action movie, that doesn't equate to being built up.

An action flick can't build up characters?

And they don't have to.

Okay. That doesn't change the reality.

No, she is the main anatagonist, she is pulling every string, like Palpatine, just becasue she isn't beating people up or driving a car doesn't negate that.

It isn't about beating people up and driving a car. They build the movie around the team clashing with Dom, not her. Its like saying Darth Vader isn't the main villain of Empire because the Emperor exist.

We were talking killed off, not written out.

I was never simply talking about killing off. I was talking about the treatment of the female characters.

Yes because it's a male drvien franchise, which isn't a crime or a bad thing, the point was still about disposability and in the death column we have 2 each in 8 movies regardless of how many of each there is.

And that makes no sense. Because you'd think with a lot more male characters, they'd be a bit more disposable. But they have gotten rid of all the major female characters outside 2, one who doesn't actually do anything.

I don't need to explain anything mate, if you genuinely believe Brian was the main character because they made a crap cash-in sequel that failed and gave him a cliche romantic subplot I just feel you're yanking my chain!

My Han comparison was simply about which character stole the show, like Han did in ANH.

How can you steal the show if you are the main character?

Brian is the main character because he is the main character. You liking Dom better does not make him the main character.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The divide doesn't exist in this franchise, Michelle Rodriguez is simply using a hot button issue to get more money for herself, which is cool but utterly false in relation to this franchise.

It most certainly exist.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Sexism is a hipster topic now?

It's been turned into that, yes, people throwing the word around to grandstand even when it's not applicable.

That is the thing. They killed him and Mia off. It was the same result, except she was taken out of the series as well.

They didn't kill them off, they ended their arc happily.

An action flick can't build up characters?

It can but that wasn't the question

Okay. That doesn't change the reality.

The reality being there is no issue here other than Michelle wanting more money and using the current hot topic to get it.

It isn't about beating people up and driving a car. They build the movie around the team clashing with Dom, not her. Its like saying Darth Vader isn't the main villain of Empire because the Emperor exist.

No, it's nothing like that at all because the Emperor only has one scene in ESB, it's more like you saying Anakin is the main villain of ROTS when it's cllearly Palpatine.

And that makes no sense. Because you'd think with a lot more male characters, they'd be a bit more disposable. But they have gotten rid of all the major female characters outside 2, one who doesn't actually do anything.

No, disposable is disposable, there being more of one gender than the other dooesn't alter that.

How can you steal the show if you are the main character?

Brian is the main character because he is the main character. You liking Dom better does not make him the main character.

No, he's the main character in your attempt to argue a point you are wrong about, nothing more or less.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It most certainly exist.

Nah!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, he's the main character in your attempt to argue a point you are wrong about, nothing more or less.

This is all going around in circles, and honestly not a fan of the idea of what sexism is today.

But I do want to discuss this one a bit more. The movie is built around Brian and his undercover job. It follows him, and his interaction with Dom and his sister. The arc of the film belongs to him. The finale is Brian making a choice, one showing a change in him.

I am not saying Dom isn't cool. But how is Han Solo the main character of that movie?