"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread

[herakles]

I think what she's doing by playing the gender card is absolutely garbage. I'm not opposed whatsoever to a woman president. I'm just opposed to this one. My vote for Bernie has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with his policies and who he is.

Thank you! I am also not opposed to a female or enthic minority President. I just really dislike people pulling any simply card, especially rich politicians.

 

[BatLobster]

Question to the Bernie supporters,

If Hillary ends up pulling through and winning the nomination (which despite Bernie's momentum still has a very high chance of happening) will she have your vote in the general?

Also, do you think Bernie would accept a spot as her running mate? Bernie himself has said that despite their differences, either he or Hillary is "a hundred times better" than any of the Republican nominees. He's also said that the energy and enthusiasm of his campaign makes him more electable in the general election than Hillary because Dems win when voter turnout is high and Republicans win when voter turnout is low. It would stand to reason then that a Hillary/Bernie ticket could be a surefire way to win the presidency. Of course the problem is then that Bernie would be associating himself with the big money that's against everything he stands for.

But if he were to turn her down, according to his own words it would be giving someone "a hundred times worse" than her a greater chance to win the presidency.

Interesting stuff to ponder.

 

[Matt Mortem]

If I have to choose between Hillary Clinton and ANY of the GOP I'll begrudgingly vote Clinton. As with most elections it's choosing the lesser of two evils.

 

[summerteeth]

People do realize that even though he "won" he still lost last night right? Clinton ended up with more delegates from New Hampshire because the DNC has this thing rigged with super delegates who are all supporting Clinton. Have fun though imagining Bernie getting the nomination though it is a fantasy.

 

[BatLobster]

The super delegates are still up for grabs though, technically. If Bernie gains more momentum they can switch.

Though I agree, I still think the odds are stacked against Sanders from here on.

 

[Decepticonus]

Hate the GOP but I will NOT vote for Hillary. She is too "establishment" to me personally.

 

[BatLobster]

So by that mindset, if it was Hillary vs Trump you'd want Trump to win?

 

[herakles]

If I have to choose between Hillary Clinton and ANY of the GOP I'll begrudgingly vote Clinton. As with most elections it's choosing the lesser of two evils.

Hilary is the lesser of two evils?

 

[herakles]

So by that mindset, if it was Hillary vs Trump you'd want Trump to win?

Hilary was a disaster as a Senator and Sec of State.

 

[Fenrir]

Well, Chaseater was just talking about increasing taxes not tax avoidance. Overseas investors choosing other countries is one type of capital flight, but wealthy individuals leaving would also be a form of capital flight.

Wealthy individuals don't actually leave, they simply store their wealth elsewhere while still taking full advantage of the U.S's economic and financial infrastructure. The American government needs to teach these people that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Hence the idea of a remittance tax. They need also need to close the tax code loopholes that allow wealthy individuals to get away with paying very little capital gains tax in the U.S.

It was mainly after QE2 that went to emerging markets and while it wasn't as successful as QE1 it still did its part. I don't see how you can argue against QE1 it had a tremendous impact on the recovery. It's no surprise that the US and the UK had two of the strongest recoveries and were the some of the first to implement quantitative easing. I'm curious as to what you think led to the recovery than considering you are so down on QE and free markets.

Every economist worth his salt has derided QE for leading to a slower and flimsier recovery. At best it is only partially true only in the case of the U.S, but for the U.K and rest of Europe, deflation and stagnant growth has remained a nagging problem for more than half a decade. As for QE1 having a "tremendous impact", well as they say when you've hit rock bottom there's no way to go but up, but if a particular policy has no sustainable impact, then by most accounts it is not considered effective, further vindicating the economists who were calling for single digit negative interest rates. The fact that the Federal Reserve has been unable to consistently hit its own inflation targets is very telling about their own views on the impact of monetary stimulus on growth and unemployment.

Please, I am well aware of economic crashes over the years.

Oh, do you? Then please enlighten me about the major financial or economic crises (apart from the oil crises of the 1970s and 80s) in the past 30-40 years that weren't caused by the excesses of free market capitalism? You've got the Asian currency crisis of the late 90s, the LTCM fiasco, more than two decades of Latin American crises, the dot-com bubble...take your pick. It is because these idiots never learn from their own history that they constantly keep repeating it.

 

[TheBat812]

Hilary is the lesser of two evils?

Easily. It's not even close. No Republican candidate believes climate change is real. Nearly every one has promised to defund Planned Parenthood, repeal Obamacare, outlaw abortions. Basically they want to undo all the progress we've made culturally while literally and physically ruining the future. While Hillary might perpetuate many of the elitist ways of today's political/economic systems, every Republican has promised to exacerbate it.

It's insane to me that anybody could possibly want ANY of the Republican candidates, who appear like cartoon caricatures of the worst things about our country. The climate change issue alone should be a deal breaker. not to mention their clear intentions to restrict human rights based on their religious values - something that directly contradicts the most important part of our constitution. Their should be some kind of immediate disqualification for saying things like 'I'm a Christian first, an American second.' If that is your honest viewpoint, fine, but that should make you unfit to be POTUS.

 

[Marvolo]

People do realize that even though he "won" he still lost last night right? Clinton ended up with more delegates from New Hampshire because the DNC has this thing rigged with super delegates who are all supporting Clinton. Have fun though imagining Bernie getting the nomination though it is a fantasy.

Where are you seeing that at?

Associated Press, and New York Times are showing that Sanders received 15 delegates. Clinton only received 9.

 

[Marvolo]

Question to the Bernie supporters,

If Hillary ends up pulling through and winning the nomination (which despite Bernie's momentum still has a very high chance of happening) will she have your vote in the general?

Also, do you think Bernie would accept a spot as her running mate? Bernie himself has said that despite their differences, either he or Hillary is "a hundred times better" than any of the Republican nominees. He's also said that the energy and enthusiasm of his campaign makes him more electable in the general election than Hillary because Dems win when voter turnout is high and Republicans win when voter turnout is low. It would stand to reason then that a Hillary/Bernie ticket could be a surefire way to win the presidency. Of course the problem is then that Bernie would be associating himself with the big money that's against everything he stands for.

But if he were to turn her down, according to his own words it would be giving someone "a hundred times worse" than her a greater chance to win the presidency.

Interesting stuff to ponder.

If the Democratic Party chooses Hillary to be their candidate Ill vote against the GOP candidate by voting for Hillary. To hell with the GOP candidates. Plus, I dont want a Republican president when the GOP has control of the House and Senate. That'd be a cluster**** and theyd probably try to undo every bit of social progress this country has made in the last 8 years.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Question to the Bernie supporters,

If Hillary ends up pulling through and winning the nomination (which despite Bernie's momentum still has a very high chance of happening) will she have your vote in the general?

Also, do you think Bernie would accept a spot as her running mate? Bernie himself has said that despite their differences, either he or Hillary is "a hundred times better" than any of the Republican nominees. He's also said that the energy and enthusiasm of his campaign makes him more electable in the general election than Hillary because Dems win when voter turnout is high and Republicans win when voter turnout is low. It would stand to reason then that a Hillary/Bernie ticket could be a surefire way to win the presidency. Of course the problem is then that Bernie would be associating himself with the big money that's against everything he stands for.

But if he were to turn her down, according to his own words it would be giving someone "a hundred times worse" than her a greater chance to win the presidency.

Interesting stuff to ponder.

Many are of the mindset, Bernie or Bern it. Truthfully, I do not feel the DNC should not be rewarded for nepotism, shoving their candidate down our throats, or their unethical tactics since this all started last Spring.

Plus, many of Bernie's supporters aren't democrats. Trump, Bloomberg, Kasich, even Cruz have qualities that appeal to independents as well as the right-most edge of Bernie's supporters.

Personally, I have opportunities to move in with a friend in Germany next year and depending how all this shakes out, I don't mind watching Trump v Clinton from the sidelines. If that leads to a Trump victory, well... he has always been good at reality television.

On the flipside, if Bernie wins, I've never been so inspired or passionate about politics or my community. I'm rarely this passionate about anything. So I'm feelin the Bern for now. We'll see come October/November.

 

[Decepticonus]

So by that mindset, if it was Hillary vs Trump you'd want Trump to win?

God no! I HATE Trump, if he won good chance you'll see me in a bush on the TV with a scope. But last election I couldn't vote for either candidate. I hated the Healthcare reform but I didn't care for Romney at all. Here I thoroughly back Bernie 100%. I admit I am not on the same page with him on foreign policy, not that I disagree but he seems a bit weak in that field, same time I don't consider myself very foreign policy savvy anyways. Hillary is just meh, to establishment to me. She's almost something of a left-leaning Republican and hate her selling "vote for me I'm a woman, diversity, yay!" I hate that crap. And that lesser of two evils I find to be bizarre. You may as well ask me to eat dog **** or cat ****. I believe in Sanders 100%, and want him to win. I feel he represents my interests. Hillary, nope. The GOP, nope. If Sanders wins the nomination I am GOING to the polls, if he doesn't probably not. Now if Trump wins the nomination and goes up against Hillary then I may have to journey out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Maddow presenting a comparison between the 2008 and 2016 Democratic races. It is kind of amazing. Love the Super Delegates talk.

 

[hippie_hunter]

People do realize that even though he "won" he still lost last night right? Clinton ended up with more delegates from New Hampshire because the DNC has this thing rigged with super delegates who are all supporting Clinton. Have fun though imagining Bernie getting the nomination though it is a fantasy.

Rigging? This perpetual victim attitude that the system is out to drag down Bernie is probably my biggest qualm with Bernie supporters. Of course Hillary is going to get more super delegates. Keep in mind, Bernie is not a Democrat. Why would Democratic office holders and party officials work to support someone who isn't even a part of their party? Especially one who has bad mouthed the party many times and is not aligned with them ideologically.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Rigging? This perpetual victim attitude that the system is out to drag down Bernie is probably my biggest qualm with Bernie supporters. Of course Hillary is going to get more super delegates. Keep in mind, Bernie is not a Democrat. Why would Democratic office holders and party officials work to support someone who isn't even a part of their party? Especially one who has bad mouthed the party many times and is not aligned with them ideologically.

I have a few things to say.

1. Summerteeth is not a Bernie supporter.

2. Yes, I am a Bernie supporter. And yes, I realize how superdelegates work. They can change their pledge at any point they choose.

3. If you're freely admitting someone who has views that don't align with a certain party could never get elected to the oval office, how do you not consider that rigging or that the DNC's system is not dragging him down?

 

[childeroland]

Bernie Sandiwiches sounds like a mobster's moniker. "They call him Bernie Sandwiches 'cause when he kills guys, he stacks them like sandwiches. Fuggettaboutit."

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm not enthusiastic about Hilary at all, I think she's a consummate politician, every word is rehearsed and she'll say anything to get votes, but if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I'll vote for Hilary in a heartbeat over any of the front-running GOP candidates.

There is really no true incentive for anyone to vote for the Republicans anymore unless you're the CEO of a major corporation (AKA the only people they give a damn about).

The GOP's allegiance to big money corporations and the so-called Christian Right and its utter scorn for the poor and working class is far from subtle. It's really head-scratching how many poor people vote Republican.

And maybe Hilary is bought and paid for too. But I at least don't think Hilary will try to undo every scrap of social progress made over the last eight years. She strikes me as a very "status quo" kind of President who would "keep on keeping on", not actively try to dismantle the freaking country.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I have a few things to say.

1. Summerteeth is not a Bernie supporter.

2. Yes, I am a Bernie supporter. And yes, I realize how superdelegates work. They can change their pledge at any point they choose.

3. If you're freely admitting someone who has views that don't align with a certain party could never get elected to the oval office, how do you not consider that rigging or that the DNC's system is not dragging him down?

You can't just expect the Democratic Party to just up and change their core ideology, just to support Bernie. The Democratic Party is not a democratic socialist party, it's a progressive one. And again, Bernie isn't a Democrat. Democratic office holders and party officials are going to support someone who is actually a Democrat. Expecting them to support Bernie is just like expecting them to support a Republican. It's not rigging, it's just common sense. It would be rigging if Bernie were actually a Democrat.

 

[CaptainWagner]

You can't just expect the Democratic Party to just up and change their core ideology, just to support Bernie. The Democratic Party is not a democratic socialist party, it's a progressive one. And again, Bernie isn't a Democrat. Democratic office holders and party officials are going to support someone who is actually a Democrat. Expecting them to support Bernie is just like expecting them to support a Republican. It's not rigging, it's just common sense. It would be rigging if Bernie were actually a Democrat.

It's the same situation with Trump. I can't see Bernie getting the nom unless the party is convinced he's the only chance to beat the GOP nominee.

 

[BatLobster]

This is a great article IMO.

https://medium.com/@zacharyleven/the-case-for-hillary-3564233d524f#.zf6uz0c0x

I like Bernie. He is a likable guy with his heart in the right place. But I think he's out of touch with reality, and could do much more damage to the left than good in the long run.

I was 21 when Obama was running for office. So I know what it's like to be young and swept up in an exciting political movement with big, bold, ideas. I can totally sympathize with being disillusioned with the system and connecting with a candidate representing change that seems more like a real person than a politician. It's the same thing fueling Trump's movement.

I'm not looking to bash on Bernie, but I do wish more of his supporters would take a closer look at Hillary and not paint her with such a broad brush. IMO "Bernie or Bern it" is very dangerous thinking that could lead us straight to President Trump.

 

[summerteeth]

You can't just expect the Democratic Party to just up and change their core ideology, just to support Bernie. The Democratic Party is not a democratic socialist party, it's a progressive one. And again, Bernie isn't a Democrat. Democratic office holders and party officials are going to support someone who is actually a Democrat. Expecting them to support Bernie is just like expecting them to support a Republican. It's not rigging, it's just common sense. It would be rigging if Bernie were actually a Democrat.

Oh I'm in complete agreement and I texted almost the exact same thing to my friend the other day because he was saying it was because Bernie won't bend to special interests. I told him why in the world would a bunch of Democrat party elders support a socialist? Of course they won't support him. That being said if you look at how the DNC is operating compared to the GOP its rather undemocratic and they have done everything to hand Hillary the election since day one.

I also told him, I don't know why this is surprising at all that the party that thinks government knows best thinks *gasp* government knows best.

 

[BatLobster]

I also told him, I don't know why this is surprising at all that the party that thinks government knows best thinks *gasp* government knows best.

Ha, that is so true!