Justice League For the Lead Up Films: How to Differentiate From "The Avengers Stretegy".

Hey guys, long time lurker and first time poster. Happy to join the discussion.

I think the one thing DC has going for it that Marvel doesn't in this case is that their characters are a lot more iconic. Superman and Batman are without a doubt the two biggest superheroes of all time. I know people are clamoring for a Justice League movie but if DC really wants to differentiate themselves from Marvel and not be looked upon as just a mere copycat, then perhaps they're better off just setting things up for a World's Finest movie. In my opinion, just having Superman and Batman in the same movie would feel like more of an "event" than any Avengers film. Not to mention they wouldn't be bogged down by the other, lesser known Justice League members.

The only other character with the potential to launch a successful film is probably Wonder Woman... because she, too, is iconic. But Flash? I'm sorry, the masses won't sit through a Flash movie. At least I don't think they would. But who knows. The same goes for Aquaman. Lol this isn't Entourage. No one is going to see Aquaman. The dude talks to fish. Green Lantern? Well that had all the potential in the world but it's gonna be REALLY tough to erase the 2011 film from people's minds.

Plus another thing. Batman is probably at his most interesting when he's not playing with others. I know he's an integral figure in the DC universe but he becomes a lot less engaging when he's taking on other-worldly threats and fighting alongside Superman and Wonder Woman. He's Batman. Batman belongs in Gotham City with The Joker and The Penguin, lurking in the shadows... not in some space station. You thought Captain America was useless in The Avengers? Batman is even more useless to the Justice League. Yea, yea we get it. Billionaire genius... sure. Next to Superman and Green Lantern, he's an ant. And I don't care what comic shows him holding his own. He wouldn't. Pure and simple. Keep Batman away from anything having to do with aliens. It's not a good match.

All in all I'm of two minds when it comes to a Justice League movie. I can see the pros and I could see the cons. But it's gonna be really, really tough to pull off.
Agree with Batman but I would like to have him treated like the cartoon series. He's not a full time member but he's there if needed. Hearing him say no to the JL and then making him the cameo surprise would be that much cooler.

IMO a JL movie starts and ends with Lex in office. As President he can make a move to make metahumans seem like weapons of mass destruction. Lexcorp, secretely aided by tech from Brainiac, makes giant robots, yes we beat them to it, to collect the JL. Then the human non registered heros (Batman, GL, Robin, maybe even Cyborg) go out to aid the JL. After that an all out war between the robots, JL and a Brainiac army with their own agenda.
 
I feel the benefit of building up to a Justice League film is that you can generate hype quickly. WB would need to start pumping out the films quick, and release one or two each year to set up the Justice League. If they put enough money behind it, they could gear up a Justice League film in three years. if they only put enough money into it...

...which they probably won't.

All we need is Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, and the Flash. A GL movie already exists, and they can introduce the new Batman in the Justice League film. What they could also do is have a World's Finest film, just crossing over Batman and Supes. I'd pay to see that.
 
I would add avoid using Amanda Waller because people will just see her as DC's Nick Fury. Try something else.
 
WB should not be rushing out a Justice Lague without proper build up and I dont think they can do that beore 2015.Their best choice to concentrate on a smaller teamup-The Trinity.The only movie they need to release to buildup is MOS and Wonderwoman and introduce the rebooted Batman in it the Trinity movie.The Trinity movie can serve as a prequel to the Justice League and can actually stand on its own as a great teamup movie as it contains the 3 most Iconic heroes in the world.
 
one thing the dc movies seem to be doing is grounding it more in reality. putting more emotion into the movies to make the characters more relatable to the audience. i didn't see that with the marvel movies. they just adjusted the comics a bit and created their own movie origins for their heroes with nods to the comic origins, and that worked well.

man of steel looks like it's going to be an event for the world when superman makes his emergence to the public. that'll be met with fear, and questions. which is probably how our modern world will react to it. they should use that world mentality in solo films before justice league if they do solo films first. that'll help build the universe. these heroes exist in the real world(our world).
 
I would add avoid using Amanda Waller because people will just see her as DC's Nick Fury. Try something else.

not if they cast CCH Pounder herself.

shes NOT doing anything and has ALWAYS played the hard ass captain.
 
To diferentiate they could start with a World's Finest film, then make a Trinity film and finally a Justice League epic. Superman and Batman are already very environments, with World's Finest you could see both of these iconic characters together.

Then the Trinity film adds Wonder Woman that we see the 3 main heroes and different genres, by Justice League 3 of the characters would already know each other and the audience would be already familiar with the idea of all these so different heroes existing in the same world.

It would even give them more time if they wanted to introduce the characters in their oun movies first. For example, now you have The Man of Steel and WB is planing a Batman reboot, after this both characters are ready to be in a World's Finest Film and after that they can make another solo film for each one of these 2 characters and also make 1 or 2 more movies for another character like Wonder Woman, this way making them available for a Trinity film.

One thing that DC can make different from Marvel is an end game, Marvel wants to turn their universe into a never ending film franchise like James Bond, DC can have a begining, a middle and an end for their franchises, and then after the story is done they can find other visions for their characters and stories, just like with the comics where Marvel has mantained their canon since their very begining, the movie of DC can follow the example of the comics where every certain period of years there's a reboot, large or small, with characters from the previous stories making some camoes or returning for an epic event like with Infinite Crisis
 
To diferentiate they could start with a World's Finest film, then make a Trinity film and finally a Justice League epic. Superman and Batman are already very environments, with World's Finest you could see both of these iconic characters together.

I think they best just skip worlds finest and jump right into a Trinity movie.The sooner they can build up to the League the better.But they have to release a wonderwoman movie before that.
The Trinity movie should be released before Avengers 2.I think the The Trinity is big enough to be a rival to Avengers 1.The trinity will serve as a prequel to the Justice league
 
I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.
 
I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.

Based on what
 
Based on popularity. Batman and Superman are well known and have large fan bases, but then again if the movie is good quality... Wolverine's solo didn't do as great as people thought and folks seem to love him to death. Still popularity must play a role as Spider-man would draw in more people than The Fabulous Frog-man. Also if people know there's gonna be a JL movie they might just past the solo movies and wait to see all the characters at once to save time and money.
 
I don't know why people.keep.ignoring the OP. IF THERE ARE LEAD UP FILMS HOW WOULD THEY DIFFERENTIATE
not how to make a self contained universe

I guess there are a lot of people that feel strongly about a separate universe (at least for anything that Christopher Nolan touches). I think it is up to the producers as to whether they will agree to continuity or not. If "Man of Steel" turns out to be a successful film it's producers are not going to want any competing film with a different version of Superman out there. You would then also have the issue of scheduling the main characters to all be in a Justice league film. Marvel did this right off the bat to get the Avengers to work, but I don't know if there was an agreement in Henry Cavil's contract to do a Justice League film.
 
I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.

Thor was probably less well known (in his comic book incarnation at least) than GL and definitely WW but his movie grabbed 450m WW with some good reviews, hey even Iron Man himself could plausibly been written off as not Marvel top tier so not worth bothering with for a movie. It seems if JL actually gets made they'll be going almost straight to it but don't dismiss half the characters before we get there. Not to mention doing a team up with over half the characters being new could be more of a disaster than GL.

I disagree with BW/Hawkeye/Cap coming across as weak, I thought all kicked ass and generated interest in future projects, especially as there was a big revival for a previous movies on DVD for a few weeks.

As for the OP, hmmm tough one. If they do lead up movies now then they will inevitably be compared to TA. Even if they launch into JL people will question that wisdom vs lead up movies.

I really don't think mid credits scenes make much difference except to fans and most people didn't even notice Hawkeye's cameo. BW in IM2 was ok in theory but not good in practice (IMO) but I liked her in TA and I liked that we knew who she was. It really depends on the circumstances.

3. Don't reuse a villain in JL that was already seen in the solo films.

Again, I liked Loki and I liked the idea that TA caught his and Thor's issues mid way through so to speak, everyone's already a known player so lets get down to this. I think it's what gave TA room enough to create those great character moments, everyone has already been given the briefing including the audience (and if not: extra incentive to by those DVD/BRs!)

That said going with a completely different villain might be a good idea given the powers they each have alone and what it could take to bring them together.
 
Thor was probably less well known (in his comic book incarnation at least) than GL and definitely WW but his movie grabbed 450m WW with some good reviews, hey even Iron Man himself could plausibly been written off as not Marvel top tier so not worth bothering with for a movie. It seems if JL actually gets made they'll be going almost straight to it but don't dismiss half the characters before we get there. Not to mention doing a team up with over half the characters being new could be more of a disaster than GL.

There's no need to have lead-up films. We all know the main characters of JLA are going to be Batman and Superman. The rest will be some level of supporting cast. You make a subplot of the JLA be the origin of one of the members, and there you go. Everyone knows the origins of Superman and Batman, then the third. That's three origins covered. Then the sequels can somehow deal with the other characters origins.
 
you know what the problem is? DC doesn't trust their characters!!

I find it very possible that most people consider Superman and Batman to be their only characters!

Both in live-action and animation,they are taking over! I mean, look at the poster for Justice League: Doom! it's got Batman's face all over it and the rest of the team in a reflection on his bat-shaped throwing thing!

They have all these interesting characters that they refuse to use in solo movies! not even animation...i mean, why are they rebooting batman? we had a batman in the 90s that was ruined...then we had the perfect batman who we all loved...now they want to give us another one?

i have seen batman on screen plenty, let's see someone else!
 
It's my belief that if we go straight into a Justice League movie, it'll look even more like an Avengers knock off than if they did the lead-in films. And really think about it, if this film bombs, it will bomb hard. No new DC Movies, (with the exception of Superman if MOS does well) for a loooooooooong time.

The key difference in my opinion is the way to go about this, first off DC Characters are different from Marvel's, no debates here. The only characters in the Justice League that are somewhat similar to a typical Marvel hero are Green Lantern and Flash (by personality , not by mythologies). But they should use that to their advantage by making each solo film their own epic and not to worry about the "shared universe" the only studio interference should be that they keep it all under control by casual mentions and not full blown cameos (make audiences unaware that a Justice League film is being planned).

The main difference between the Nolan films and the Marvel Studio solo movies is that the Marvel films feel like your standard superhero film which works for Iron Man and Cap, not so much with Thor and Hulk (I enjoyed Thor but I think is missed on the more epic sword and sorcery feel that could have separated from the other films). DC should avoid this and make their solo films their own ball game, have Wonder Woman be a tale of Greek Mythology coming into play in today's world with social-political overtones. Have Aquaman be the undersea adventure with an epic battle for the control of Atlantis against Ocean Master, and finally get rid of the jokes by making him the conflicted warrior king he was destined to be.

After that focus on Flash which is probably a safer bet than the other two but still keep it as it's own story. As Flash is more of a standard superhero it could make a great fun summer pop-corn movie with potential CSI elements in there. Now with Green Lantern, we have a bit of a problem on our hands- everyone hates him right now and with the approach I'm suggesting I'm not opposed to seeing him in Justice League where we see his "new" introduction but if WB are willing to give him another go- go full blown space opera here like Star Wars, galaxies away against Sinestro and his Corps fitting with the epic scope of the other films.

Onto the big two as I said, Superman is fine from what we see so far and if it's any indication his film will set the films for a JL film either way they go. As for Batman, Nolan's films are so beloved right now that I think it might be best to either save his film for last or introduce him again in Justice League (keeping his appeal as the mysterious "cool" one). On the other hand if they do decide to have another Bat-film than obviously make it different from Nolan's approach but have it in the loose shared universe we have going.

Finally Justice League it's self, now depending on the success of the hypothetical six films we have- if one or two don't do that well we can still get this one done. Anymore than that, we may be in trouble here but for the sake of argument let's say they've done well enough audience know and like the heroes and are surprised to see a JL film. Now of course the obvious answer is "make it big"- that goes without saying but in terms of tone (where the marketing comes in) it needs to be dark for most of the movie. Yeah, yeah I know that's cliche to say but hear me out.

The villain needs to seem larger than not only life, but larger than the heroes whomever it is it needs to actually seem like Earth is doomed this time- we need to make it look like it will be their first and last stand, an all around gloomy atmosphere where the audiences are at the edge of their seats. I'm talking a disaster/war movie. Market it as such, that humanity is in grave danger and these very different heroes, almost gods have to work together- but that they might not make it out in the end. But at the end, when the League do prevail it shouldn't look like the Avengers with the heroes kicking ass- it needs to be more like angels from heaven have stopped Satan from making Revelations become a reality- leave the audience in total awe and wonder. Instead of people coming out shouting "HOLY ****! THAT WAS AWESOME!" people should come out thinking "Wow..." utterly speechless.
 
Well said Karem Knight
My thoughts on what Wbs plan should be
2013-Man of Steel
2014-Wonderwoman
2015-Trinity.
The Trinity should be their answer to Avengers not JL.JL should be their answer to Avengers 2.
2016-MOS 2 and Wonderwoman 2
2017-Flash and GL reboot
2018-MOS 3 and Wonderwoman 3
2019-Justice League
 
It's my belief that if we go straight into a Justice League movie, it'll look even more like an Avengers knock off than if they did the lead-in films. And really think about it, if this film bombs, it will bomb hard. No new DC Movies, (with the exception of Superman if MOS does well) for a loooooooooong time.

The key difference in my opinion is the way to go about this, first off DC Characters are different from Marvel's, no debates here. The only characters in the Justice League that are somewhat similar to a typical Marvel hero are Green Lantern and Flash (by personality , not by mythologies). But they should use that to their advantage by making each solo film their own epic and not to worry about the "shared universe" the only studio interference should be that they keep it all under control by casual mentions and not full blown cameos (make audiences unaware that a Justice League film is being planned).

The main difference between the Nolan films and the Marvel Studio solo movies is that the Marvel films feel like your standard superhero film which works for Iron Man and Cap, not so much with Thor and Hulk (I enjoyed Thor but I think is missed on the more epic sword and sorcery feel that could have separated from the other films). DC should avoid this and make their solo films their own ball game, have Wonder Woman be a tale of Greek Mythology coming into play in today's world with social-political overtones. Have Aquaman be the undersea adventure with an epic battle for the control of Atlantis against Ocean Master, and finally get rid of the jokes by making him the conflicted warrior king he was destined to be.

After that focus on Flash which is probably a safer bet than the other two but still keep it as it's own story. As Flash is more of a standard superhero it could make a great fun summer pop-corn movie with potential CSI elements in there. Now with Green Lantern, we have a bit of a problem on our hands- everyone hates him right now and with the approach I'm suggesting I'm not opposed to seeing him in Justice League where we see his "new" introduction but if WB are willing to give him another go- go full blown space opera here like Star Wars, galaxies away against Sinestro and his Corps fitting with the epic scope of the other films.

Onto the big two as I said, Superman is fine from what we see so far and if it's any indication his film will set the films for a JL film either way they go. As for Batman, Nolan's films are so beloved right now that I think it might be best to either save his film for last or introduce him again in Justice League (keeping his appeal as the mysterious "cool" one). On the other hand if they do decide to have another Bat-film than obviously make it different from Nolan's approach but have it in the loose shared universe we have going.

Finally Justice League it's self, now depending on the success of the hypothetical six films we have- if one or two don't do that well we can still get this one done. Anymore than that, we may be in trouble here but for the sake of argument let's say they've done well enough audience know and like the heroes and are surprised to see a JL film. Now of course the obvious answer is "make it big"- that goes without saying but in terms of tone (where the marketing comes in) it needs to be dark for most of the movie. Yeah, yeah I know that's cliche to say but hear me out.

The villain needs to seem larger than not only life, but larger than the heroes whomever it is it needs to actually seem like Earth is doomed this time- we need to make it look like it will be their first and last stand, an all around gloomy atmosphere where the audiences are at the edge of their seats. I'm talking a disaster/war movie. Market it as such, that humanity is in grave danger and these very different heroes, almost gods have to work together- but that they might not make it out in the end. But at the end, when the League do prevail it shouldn't look like the Avengers with the heroes kicking ass- it needs to be more like angels from heaven have stopped Satan from making Revelations become a reality- leave the audience in total awe and wonder. Instead of people coming out shouting "HOLY ****! THAT WAS AWESOME!" people should come out thinking "Wow..." utterly speechless.

I disagree about JL having to have an overall dark tone just to get the feeling of urgency and danger across. Sure, the villain should be presented in a dark manner, but the tone should fit whatever hero is on the screen at the time. Batman's world would be dark, but somewhere like Themyscira would be an Island paradise full of sunshine and vibrant colors. If it's all of them on screen at once, then a new tone is created out of that.
 
The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.

Superherohype agrees:

http://www.superherohype.com/featur...inment-can-catch-up-to-marvel-studios?start=3


This is WB/DC's biggest trump card. Especially with Nolan as a creative consultant.

That might be okay as a beginning point for the universe but it doesnt make much sense for a universe full of the fantastical to continue to be steeped in the mundane. Real world events and technological innovations often have dramatic life-changing ramifications, what would the types of things that happen in a superhero universe quickly do to our real world? Plus, like has been said, the marvel movies are pretty grounded considering the subject matter so unless you intend to strip the DCCU of the fantastic entirely I dont see you can differentiate the universe in that regard. Instead of going for "grounded" a better aspiration would be to go for "gravity" - believable, multidimensional characters in amazing circumstances instead of cute, quippy superhero/action hero troupes.
 
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i agree with some of the other posters in here. WB should knix the JLA title and call it "World's Finest" with only Batman and Superman starring to start of with. This will enable WB/DC to introduce a new Batman without having to release a completely rebooted film franchise right off the bat, tie MoS Superman in with another character, and still let them have their superhero team-up movie while keeping it small enough in scope where you can focus not only on the main team-up story but also Batman's backstory. Best of all, it won't overwhelm viewers with too many new characters, none of which had a film in the past besides Superman and an out-of-continuity Batman anyway.

From there, they can just work their way up to a real JLA movie, which would be easier for DC to pull off since Batman and Superman would have crossed over early on. I'd go World's Finest (Superman and Batman; starring Superman while introducing Batman sort of like the Superman TAS episode) -> The Brave and the Bold -> (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and maybe Green Arrow/Flash) -> Full on JLA movie. This would essentially form a "prequel" team-up trilogy for DC's "phase one" and provide even more backbone for their universe than Marvel had. The team up movies would also buy DC an appropriate amount of time to release a full blown Batman reboot before that final JLA movie. That's not even mentioning the Wonder Woman and Green Arrow/Flash films they would have produced between movies as well.
 
Instead of full fledged team-ups which I think might take away a little from the steam of seeing them all together, I'd just have special sequences in each movie where the title hero of the film meets another hero and show some of the dynamic between those two characters. It would go something like:
1) Batman reboot featuring Superman
2) Flash featuring Green Lantern
3) Wonder Woman featuring Superman and perhaps Batman
4) Justice League starring all the aforementioned and introducing Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter.
 
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If they want to differentiate the Justice League from Marvel's Avengers they should avoid having invasions from alien races that only focus on the superhero team. If an unknown alien race came to Earth, they would more than likely attack the the entire planet (a la "Independence Day"), and that would be an overwhelming task for a small team of 6 or 7 heroes.
 
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I really don't think Justice League will be the popcorn flick that Avengers was - if anything, it'll be a lighter version of the Watchmen movie, and not as stylized. I think the way to differentiate itself from Avengers would be to make is philosophical, deep, and serious...at least as much as you can with caped superheroes.

It's weird, because the SHH posters are right - DC's characters are far more fantastical and more magic than science, but since Marvel already made quite possibly the best comic book adaptation on screen ever, I think it would be best for the JL movie to be thought-provoking and relevant to contemporary issues; some JLA stories were like that anyway.
 

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