I'd like to point out that there's a difference between a studio putting restrictions in place or setting down mandates that become detrimental to the storytelling process - which is what Joss' comments indicate happened on Age of Ultron - and what happened with Fantastic Four (where the director's personal problems spilled out into the production and resulted in a situation where steps had to be taken to fix the damage to/issues with the film that resulted).
FOX can't merge two of them together to create a new bigger one without a sit down with the Mouse. There's a lot of info out there suggesting a FOX crossover is impossible given the existing, separate agreements. But if it makes you happy, feel free to ignore it.
When the crossover happens the statement above will be rendered pointless and you've been stating it in almost every post you drop.
Its okay if you just don't want it to happen, man. We all have our preferences. I'm still upset the Cavs eliminated my Bulls but my being upset won't change anything.
My disdain for Marvel Studios' current tactics is more than justified. When they meddle, the movies suffer. I guess I just don't see how acknowledging that makes me a hypocritical "Fox fanboy".
Hmmm, so you are relying on off-handed quotes and rumors to support your wishful thinking that an FFINO/X-Men cross over would take place. It's interesting how rumors that you want to believe like this are taken into consideration, but if they are rumors that point to something less positive, like the FFINO production being a complete disaster, they get disregarded and swept under the rug.
I have no doubt Miles Teller would like to "kick it" with Wolverine. That proves nothing. Also the fact that the producers/executives have had conversations about it also proves nothing. I'm sure it's been talked about many times behind closed doors at Fox's office.
But what you continually ignore is the fact that, once again, Fox doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in the FFINO film. I've never seen a movie's 3D post-conversion job get cancelled before, that is unprecedented as far as I know and it's clear as day to me that Fox doesn't want to sink any more money into this. That doesn't paint a very pretty picture for the Fox properties in my eyes, and certainly makes a crossover seem pretty unlikely. But then again I'm not blinded by wishful thinking.
You're arguments are so tired, man. All you ever do is bring up IP rights and studio contracts - yet you know nothing. When the crossover at Fox happens 90% of your posts will be rendered pointless and if Trank's FF fares better with critics than AOU there goes the other 10%.
The two awful FF films you bring up to discredit Fox were part of the old Rothman regime that's been absent for six years now. Fox doesn't make bad movies anymore. Disney on the other hand sometimes makes a good movie and then other times (NOW) makes movies like AOU (which probably would have been a great film had they not crippled it with micromanaging).
Fox has been on point since First Class and the movies just keep getting better.
Agreed.Previously it was said deadpool may not be able to have X-Men characters because Deadpool wasn't part of original X-Men purachase.That's been disproven with Colossus and morlock characters appearing In Deadpool.
According to rumor
In FF the X-Men are mentioned in Seperate dimesion by Doom
According to avi arad kingpin was originally part of SPider-man rights yet fox and Sony made some kind of deal to transfer Kingpin to Fox and when rights rverted back to marvel Kingpin went with daredevil.I seriously doudt marvel would have let Sony put DOFP tease in midcredits for ASM2 for fox allowiing webb to do film when he owed fox another film.
I could list a whole bunch of claims by the rights people that didn't happen.
But i will just go if fox didn't want FF to be successful why would fox pay for
rumored 2 months of reshoots and reportly caused budget to go up to 122
million.Which by the way would push the reboot budget higher than budgets for X-Men,X2,the 2005 FF,and the wolverine.
Many great actors or great directors can be difficult to work with.If FF turns out good few are going to care about Gossip On Josh Trank.
Few fans of X-Men good films ever defend the story FF films as well as elektra,and even actual X-Men films last stand and origins.Ocassionly under rothman fox was capable of making good films as X-Men and X.Rothman was techinly head of studio when First class and rise of the planet of the apes were made both films many online by the way dismissed as bound to suck and fail.
There wouldn't even be a marvel studios if fox hadn't taken chance with X-Men and sony finally able to get Spider-man made.People may not like avi arad's decsions with ghost rider films,Spider-man 3,and Amazing Spider-man 2 but people ignore his contributions to getting marvel characters on film and TV.
It's very puzzling how people who were disappointed by AOU want to level any critism all on Joss Whedon.Kevin Feige deserves some since it has been said many times in past how tightly run marvel studios Is.
If by chance FF gets better RT score than AOU the internet will have a meltdown.That's not a crazy notion if gossip aside FF has some of quality brought to X-Men,X2,First Class,and DOFP.
Consently bringing up the story FF films and saying fox can't make good film is like saying WB can't make a good film because of Batman & Robin,or Green lantern.And nolan isn't directing films for DC anymore.
You may find my arguments tired "man". But I do know something. And you would too if you took off your fanboy goggles and educated yourself.
A few years back I was criticized on these boards for bringing up the fact that Marvel controlled merchandising for the X Men films. "Bbbut FOX owns them!" I was told. "They can do what they want!" But the merchandise information was there online in the 2008 Marvel Entertainment 10K.
Recently I was told that FOX held the TV rights to the X-Men. "Kinberg said so!" I was told. But the facts were online in the Mutant X court decision.
So all my posts on that subject matter won't be proven pointless. They were proven to be correct. And if you knew anything about how contracts work, you would know that FOX can't merge two of them together to create a new bigger one without a sit down with the Mouse. There's a lot of info out there suggesting a FOX crossover is impossible given the existing, separate agreements. But if it makes you happy, feel free to ignore it.
Yeah, rights deals are crazy. It's entirely possible that Fox does have the rights to some of this stuff, but the idea that Fox has everything related to the X-Men just isn't accurate. Big Hero 6 is technically a spinoff of an X-Men spinoff, and Disney was able to do a Big Hero 6 film. We also know from the Sony hack that characters and concepts can be "frozen", meaning nobody gets to use them, even if they exclusively appeared in a title the studio licensed.
When the crossover happens the statement above will be rendered pointless and you've been stating it in almost every post you drop.
Its okay if you just don't want it to happen, man. We all have our preferences. I'm still upset the Cavs eliminated my Bulls but my being upset won't change anything.
Lol, "when". The confidence some of you have in a giant nameless studio to connect two completely disparate, unrelated productions based off nothing more than rumors and off-handed remarks from actors is amusing. I'll look back fondly in about two years when we're still waiting on word that these properties will intersect, cause that "Fox shared universe" won't ever get off the ground.
And again, can someone explain to me why X-men fans want a Fox shared universe so bad? There's not a lot of intersect between the FF and the X-men in the comics. Not to mention that we haven't even seen the FFINO film, so how do you know you like these characters? Especially when the production has been so maligned. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just because they are made by the same studio you want them to mash the two properties together?
Actually it's because I'm a big fan of the FF, and everything about that production spiraling out of control brings a smile to my face. Is that "hate"? I don't know, but I think I'm seeing things clearer than those so blindly confident in Fox fulfilling their wishes for a forced, nonsensical cross-over.
Actually it's because I'm a big fan of the FF, and everything about that production spiraling out of control brings a smile to my face. Is that "hate"? I don't know
I'll look back fondly in about two years when we're still waiting on word that these properties will intersect, cause that "Fox shared universe" won't ever get off the ground.
This. The Marvel Studios disciples love to troll Fox.
I actually got a probationary ban recently for defending Whedon in the AOU forums. It cracks me up how the Disney fandom has completely turned on Joss even though it was Joss who gave them the great crossover event that was The Avengers - which cemented their shared universe. At this point I'm convinced they'll swallow anything Disney gives them no matter how mediocre or unfaithful to the source it is. It kinda explains why they hate the prospect of a great FF reboot via Fox, better yet a shared universe from Fox. If FF is successful critically, their worst fears will be realized in that another studio is consistently delivering quality pictures when their own is failing to do so.
I have no allegiance to either. I'll watch everyone's movies. I do however react negatively to patterns of mishandling the talent and compromising the material over control, which Marvel Studios is currently marveling at.
Have they all really turned their backs on Whedon? I wouldn't say all fans completely turned their backs on him. There are some who are dissatisfied with AoU but I think most people at least liked it.
With Whedon, I think the main point of contention in terms of what got cut was Thor's scene, the farm bits, and more of Quicksilver. Whedon still got to tell his story. So did the Russos. So did James Gunn. So did Favreau in Iron Man 1 (but not so much in Iron Man 2).
I don't know why people are painting this in that Whedon got compeltely shut down creatively when the truth is that a lot of the issues seem to be length related, which is an issue with many movies. Bryan Singer had to cut Rogue his movie (hence the Rogue cut), and The Dark Knight Rises rough cut was 4 hours. Sony cut out a lot of stuff in Amazing Spider-Man 2 also, mostly Electro related. These things happen with all studios. There is always a battle between creatives and execs and studio meddling, but to different agrees. What Whedon went through is nowhere near as bad with Marvel as Alan Taylor went through with them, or what Gavin Hood went through with X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
Now, will the Fox shared Universe succeed? With the X-Men only at least, yes. The Fantastic Four is more of a question mark at this point due to being a departure from the comics (which we have seen mixed results from in the past but I am not completely knocking the idea) and the problems we have heard with Josh Trank, but I would not rule them out. It could still be a hit and if that's a hit, I believe they will crossover with X-Men.
Marvel didn't create the shared universe concept, but they have done it the best so far. They have a 11 movies that were successful from a critical and audience point of view (to varying degrees of course) and have reaped huge box office success because of it. Yes, other studios are doing the shared universe concept because of Marvel. It's a bit naive to think otherwise.
Does this mean that Fox and WB can't do it better? It doesn't. Regardless of my opinion on these studios, there is a potential to be better than Marvel and succeed in areas where Marvel struggles with.
Movies in the 70%!!!! That's your argument? Are you friggin kidding me? Well lets just throwaway Kingsman caust that was studio meddling and pure **** hahahaha.
Go watch Dragon Ball Z, AvsP, XMOW, X3, Die Hard 4 etc if you want to see real studio meddling. The X-Men fans who have been on this board for more then 3 years no damn well what happens when the studios start ****ing with movies.
So in your eyes the blatant drop of quality from Avengers to AOU has nothing to do with "real studio meddling"? How about the drop of quality between Iron Man and IM2? That had nothing to do with studio meddling either?
I don't think Wright was laughing when he posted that. At least with him they didn't get a chance to meddle.
There was a time when Tom Rothman allowed films like the Tim Story FFs to get greenlit. That time is gone. Marvel Studios is CURRENTLY scaring away great directors and damaging their movies in the process.
So I guess if this happens in August you'll go from a smile to a painful look of sadness t:
See, unlike you, a person actually hoping for a movie to fail, I hope for movies based on things I like to succeed. I went into AOU hoping for something great. I never wanted it to be something underwhelming and forgettable, which is what it ended up being.
So in your eyes the blatant drop of quality from Avengers to AOU has nothing to do with "real studio meddling"? How about the drop of quality between Iron Man and IM2? That had nothing to do with studio meddling either?
I don't think Wright was laughing when he posted that. At least with him they didn't get a chance to meddle.
There was a time when Tom Rothman allowed films like the Tim Story FFs to get greenlit. That time is gone. Marvel Studios is CURRENTLY scaring away great directors and damaging their movies in the process.
You're forgetting a few Marvel Studios movies. Also, I wouldn't compare Daredevil, Elektra, X3, and Origins to the other Marvel Studios movies.
Avengers AoU is still very liked by audiences and critics alike. It's enjoying great Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB, Metacritic, and cinemascore ratings. Whatever the opinion on it, one thing it isn't is a failure.
That's not true. They have good ones, but many of FOX (more specifically, Fantastic Four's) villains are the heavy hitters of the Marvel Universe.
Doom, Skrulls, Annihilus, and Galactus have all been key villains in some of the most major Marvel events, like Secret Wars, Secret Invasion, and Annihilation off the top of my head. Those have each been major Marvel events that were largely successful for the company in terms of sales.
With Whedon, I think the main point of contention in terms of what got cut was Thor's scene, the farm bits, and more of Quicksilver. Whedon still got to tell his story. So did the Russos. So did James Gunn. So did Favreau in Iron Man 1 (but not so much in Iron Man 2).
I don't know why people are painting this in that Whedon got compeltely shut down creatively when the truth is that a lot of the issues seem to be length related, which is an issue with many movies.
The moment you challenge the auteur, the art becomes compromised. The "I was so tired and beaten down already" line by Whedon says it all. The enthusiasm was gone and the film suffered from that.
Its not about one particular scene or the color of a truck or the story's pace. When the filmmaker feels questioned the final product becomes a reflection of his feelings of insecurity and anger. AOU isn't terrible but its definitely uninspired and its a damn shame because I think Whedon went into it with nothing but complete inspiration. But what does Marvel care? They already made a billion [again]. Whedon, Wright, Taylor, Jenkins, Favreau and Norton could shoot a documentary called "Marvel Studios hates auteurs" and the studio wouldn't give a ****.
Just so we're clear, the thing that seems to be the 'straw that broke the camel's back' for Whedon is the wishy-washiness of the studio not initially wanting the cave stuff in there and him compromising with them to keep the farm stuff in there while excising the cave stuff and then later telling him to put the cave stuff back in and take out the farm stuff, at which point he had to argue for both when he'd already got them to agree to leave the farm stuff in at the expense of the cave stuff.
With Fox towards Fantastic Four? Yeah, that is actually true.
Marvel wanted the film right to Galactus. When Daredevil film rights were expiring from Fox, they gave Fox the change to renew, but they wanted the film rights for Galactus in return. Fox refused.
The bad news for Marvel: Galactus won't be in the MCU.
The good news Marvel: Daredevil Netflix series
The moment you challenge the auteur, the art becomes compromised. The "I was so tired and beaten down already" line by Whedon says it all. The enthusiasm was gone and the film suffered from that.
Its not about one particular scene or the color of a truck or the story's pace. When the filmmaker feels questioned the final product becomes a reflection of his feelings of insecurity and anger. AOU isn't terrible but its definitely uninspired and its a damn shame because I think Whedon went into it with nothing but complete inspiration. But what does Marvel care? They already made a billion [again]. Whedon, Wright, Taylor, Jenkins, Favreau and Norton could shoot a documentary called "Marvel Studios hates auteurs" and the studio wouldn't give a ****.
That's Hollywood in general. Art is always compromised in studios. Whedon just let it out more than the usual director. It's an unfortunate effect of the shared unvierse in addition to being a commercial mainstream movie. Whedon and Marvel made a good movie, and Marvel has yet to really make a disaster.
Also, you're leaving out the Russos, James Gunn, and others.
Just so we're clear, the thing that seems to be the 'straw that broke the camel's back' for Whedon is the wishy-washiness of the studio not initially wanting the cave stuff in there and him compromising with them to keep the farm stuff in there while excising the cave stuff and then later telling him to put the cave stuff back in and take out the farm stuff, at which point he had to argue for both when he'd already got them to agree to leave the farm stuff in at the expense of the cave stuff.
Pretty much. There are fights that every studio has. It's not exclusive to one studio.
My point is that Marvel has done a great job at making their own cinematic universe. It doesn't mean Fox can't do a great or better job. A lot of the anger in this thread stems from some pseudo belief of competition between the studios.
"My Studio is better than your studio at making CBMs!"
I have no horse in any race and would love to see all studios succeed with making great CBMs.
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