Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - Part 18

[DarthSkywalker]

Someone somewhere said that the real problem with a time skip in hindsight would be that the new status quo Martin was setting up, while an excellent starting point, was both a) a bit too complicated, and b) had far too many interesting things happening to far too many characters the audience was already invested in.

It's one thing to be introduced to a character who's famed in legend when we meet him, then get to know him. It's another thing entirely to get to know a character, enjoy them, then come back and find that you missed out on some totally awesome **** between books.

In other words, Martin wanted to "reset the game board" but the new set up was far too epic to be skipped over. The issue is that to set it up, Martin had to let characters stew around each other and go off on quests to burn time while BIG things were happening, but not at the pace of the first three books. And like any author of a successful series, at a certain point while writing, he was inspired to expand other parts of the world and cast, and no editor would tell him "No."

Anyways, do you guys think the Wildling fort in the trailer is part of Hardhome? Or is that a different setting?

This is the nice way of saying GRRM had no idea what he was doing after ASOS. Remember the first three books were actually the base outline for the first book of the original trilogy.

 

[Victarion]

I'm a pretty big fan of A Feast for Crows, but had I been a fan of the series when AFFC came out I doubt I would like the book. Fans waited five years for A Feast For Crows only to discover it only dealt with half the characters and then on top of that had to wait another 6 years to find out what happened to the other half and then GRRM bumped the finale of ADWD to WOW which means they are still waiting for the rest of the book they thought they were getting over 10 years ago. It's a wonder the man has any fans at all.

I figure he's got a safety net roughly consisting of the length of time it takes for the fanbase to write essays about how everyone is someone else in disguise.

@DRZ:There's a few things from the books that I felt could work as analogues to the RR/Greyjoy Rebellion backstory: the uniting of the cities that Dany sacked, the sparrow uprising, Euron coming into power, the beginnings of the Sons of the Harpy to name a few.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Had to be done.

George is an *******?

Let's point this out, turning Varys into a Dany supporter is pretty stupid when you take into account how much he's let happen to her, or the times he's openly worked against her. But whatevs. Tv show's better apparently.

 

[Drz]

@DRZ:There's a few things from the books that I felt could work as analogues to the RR/Greyjoy Rebellion backstory: the uniting of the cities that Dany sacked, the sparrow uprising, Euron coming into power, the beginnings of the Sons of the Harpy to name a few.

Yeah, but i think Martin wanted to write about those events and therefore realized he couldn't time skip without creating tons of new material to his pre-existing plans. Hence we have young inexperienced Queen Daenerys and unexperienced Jon Snow + teenager Arya.

 

[Victarion]

Let's point this out, turning Varys into a Dany supporter is pretty stupid when you take into account how much he's let happen to her, or the times he's openly worked against her. But whatevs. Tv show's better apparently.

Perhaps D&D want to treat us to more Dany faces when she gets to Westeros and sees a ****load of Targaryen banners flying everywhere. Naturally, this would happen after all the Golden Company sellswords in Stannis's employ pull a "For Aegon!" on him.

Ah, but I'm wondering the literal Dance of Dragons won't be something like Jon against Danaerys, Jon have the aid of whatever is governing the Others while Dany is supported by a bunch of red priests, followers of Benerro that might get caught up in her wake as she makes her way to Westeros.

Edit: Casting tidbits http://watchersonthewall.com/season-five-casting-news-updates/ Not sure if this confirms the Battle of Ice or that Stannis's men will be going with Jon to Hardhome.

 

[KevanG]

So who do we expect to be alive by the end of the books?

I'm just hoping WunWun lives through it.

 

[Victarion]

I think that Sansa and Margaery will make it. I'd like to see Margaery in charge of Westeros. She's had the Queen of Thorns to teach her the ropes and gets on well enough with the common folk. She seems perfect for the role of Queen. I expect Cersei will be getting up to mischief with all that wildfire still under King's Landing. While many think Jaime will die dealing with Cersei's madness, I think it would be better if Brienne were put into the same spot as Jaime was, exchanging Aerys for Cersei.

 

[Drz]

Tyrion will live thru to write the Song of Ice and Fire

 

[Roose Bolton]

And then Tommen can write Lord of the Rings.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

so, have any of you gone through those letters grrm wrote to his publishers prior to him finish a game of thrones?

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2urteh/spoilers_all_so_i_just_saw_this_tweet/

a jon arya tyrion love triangle. lulz.

i had a thought some time ago, that Jon and sansa might actually get together. since she's kissed by fire, and

"Frog-faced lord slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet dublet and a shiny cloth of gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Illyn to behead. Wishing she could hurt him. Wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head"

he was the hero she as looking for.


there's also the fifth suitor theory regarding sansa's future husband.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1vsuxb/spoilers_all_the_tourney_at_ashford_and_sansas/

i thought it may have been aegon, but jon would make just as much sense.

 

[KevanG]

Here's my happy ending for the series. (Subject to change depending on GRRM and his murderous ways)

I'd like to see Jamie and Margraey get married for political reasons but Jamie still hangs out with Brienne as Captain of his Kings Guard. The two bigger political powers (finally) get together without needing to murder each other off like they did the last few times. Jon rules the wall and the Wildlings kind of merge into his guards so a huge group of men watch over the wall with their families behind it so they would be far more likely to not try to run or have to be sentenced there. After her and her dragons kick Walker ass Dany basically says **** everybody and goes back across the sea, kicks everyones ass who's a slaver and takes over everything that pissed her off. Sansa and Arya meet up, kick the crap out of Littlefinger and return to Winterfell where Arya finally meets up with Nymeria and they just take over and rebuild. Arya takes off afterwards and travels with her wolf doing whatever the **** she wants cause she's an assassin and her Direwolf is an unstoppable beast. Joffrey comes back as a Wight and all the main characters take turns beating him up then set him on fire and have a party. Tyrion runs a ****e house/brewery and has a grand old time until he drowns in a bucket of wine while getting it on with half a dozen ****es at the age of 73.

Can't think of anyone else. Need to reread books or see the show again.

 

[Victarion]

Yes, and Tyrion was going to burn down Winterfell.

My shortterm happy ending: Ramsay in a nightfire.

My longterm happy ending: Margaery rules over Westeros. Jon raises Ygritte as a queen to his Night's King. Danaerys sets out to create a New Valyria dedicated to striking a balance between magic and the science of the Citadel.

 

[KevanG]

Ah yes and the Iron islands get hit with an earthquake leaving no survivors and the Boltons come down with an incurable disease that only affects their bloodline. Cause **** those groups.

 

[godisawesome]

I keep hoping the reason GRRM moved Rickon to Skagos was because he wanted the twilight of Bolton power to be being fed to the only people who actually are more metal than the flayed men; cannabilistic unicorn raiders.

 

[Reek]

Ah yes and the Iron islands get hit with an earthquake leaving no survivors and the Boltons come down with an incurable disease that only affects their bloodline. Cause **** those groups.

 

[KevanG]

Ah shaddup Cory.

 

[jonathancrane]

I have a grossly unrealistic hope that Stannis will go out in a blaze of glory, such as taking out Ramsay. However, considering we are dealing with the ash-crown business and GRRM writing it, he is probably going to die from an infection that entered through a paper cut, haha.

 

[Victarion]

I hope that he gets the obsidian from Dragonstone to the Wall before he bites it.

 

[Drz]

Stannis story won't end with the North, he'll make the Boltons knee, make an alliance with Littlefinger and then crush King's Landing, huzzah!

 

[Lord]

Let's point this out, turning Varys into a Dany supporter is pretty stupid when you take into account how much he's let happen to her, or the times he's openly worked against her. But whatevs. Tv show's better apparently.

Wasn't he going against her only before the entire Kingdom went to hell?

 

[Drz]

No he has his allegieance to different house than Targaryens.

 

[godisawesome]

I'm one of those guys who think Stannis is going to at least outlive the rest of the Lannister dynasty, become the last true remaining crown of the Seven Kingdoms, and then die in fire in some manner. I've got him begged as the last ruler with the authority of the Iron Throne before the splintering of the Kingdoms.

 

[Marvolo]

Let's point this out, turning Varys into a Dany supporter is pretty stupid when you take into account how much he's let happen to her, or the times he's openly worked against her. But whatevs. Tv show's better apparently.

Have you read ADWD? He straight up tells Kevan that he is supporting the Targaryens. If the show isn't including [BLACKOUT]Aegon[/BLACKOUT] then he has to support Dany. She is the only other Targaryen atm. And Varys had an image and deception to maintain up until he fled King's Landing so his previous actions and statements about Dany were nothing more than subterfuge to keep his true allegiance and goals hidden from the Lannisters.

 

[Victarion]

Kevan is confirmed back. I do wonder how much of what Varys told Kevan was the truth. Since he's the Master of Whispers, I expect he would want to ensure he didn't drop anything rogue birds might pick up.

 

[Drz]

Have you read ADWD? He straight up tells Kevan that he is supporting the Targaryens.

Spoiler

Blackfyres!