Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Marvolo]

I love how Dany is a monster for slaughtering thousands of innocent people to sit on the throne, but it’s totally cool that Bran knew Dany was going to slaughter thousands of innocent people and just sat back quietly to let it happen so he can sit on the throne.

I also love how Dany and Grey Worm slaughtered an entire city of men, women, and children, but Grey Worm is hung up on Tyrion freeing his brother which ultimately caused Jaime to die with Cersei.

 

[FunkMiller]

Just... utter garbage. I wasn’t expecting a huge amount, but that plumbed the depths even more than I thought it might.

Never known the quality of a piece of fiction drop off in quality so quickly.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

After sleeping on it, I still find King Bran an odd, sort of deus ex machina-ish resolution, but I think Jon's ending was basically perfect. I don't think his lineage reveal was pointless. It was a burden for him, it drove a wedge between him and Dany and played a role in "the snap". It adds a nice layer of irony to the story that the true rightful heir to the throne was born with a bastard's name and will live out the rest of his days North of the wall. He saved the world very few people in Westeros will ever know it. I dunno, I think it strikes the right chord. I don't think glory ever suited him much.

Yeah, same here. Once the throne was melted, I think Jon, being the rightful king, just declare each kingdom is independent and free and that he is going up North of the Wall where he feels more at home. Or better yet, join Arya on her expedition, since the two were so close, and I would have liked Arya to have someone she knows be with her, either Jon or Gendry. But no to the exile or any of that, because it is such a disgrace to a character who has sacrificed so much for the greater good of the realm.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Ok here goes. I have been a semi defender of this show this season. I have certainly had my issues with it and have voiced my opinions on those issues here. But I cannot defend it any longer. This was the worst finale of any show I have ever seen. And yes I am including Dexter and How I met your mother. There were so many things that made me outright angry here. Dany's death was so anticlimactic that I don't have words for it. And this was after Jon had to be convinced for 15 minutes of screen time to do something. And this was after he watched her slaughter thousands of innocent people. Then Drogon melts the throne. Why? Are they implying that it was Dany's quest for the throne that ultimately killed her and not Jon? If so, how the F would a dragon know that? Or even what a throne is to begin with? So the mad queen storyline that they rushed to get to to begin with is over in the first 12 minutes of the episode. Then we have the stupid time jump. How nice it was of them to let Jon live after murdering their queen. I always admired how fair the unsullied and dothraki were to their enemies. And Greyworm is clearly losing his mind. What an interesting idea to let Jon just leave and go to the wall. Especially after the speech about wanting justice. And now Bran gets to be king ...... . For some reason. And how about the toughest woman in Westeros Brienne of Tarth? Well she gets to push him around in his wheelchair and take notes in a book. What a fitting ending for her. This was utter garbage. They could have spent a whole season building up that Dany was becoming the mad queen and show Jon's conflict about needing to do something about it. But no we got this instead. So rushed. And he's spending the whole first part of the episode having him say she's our queen after seeing her butcher all those people. They crapped all over his character. I really really hated this

My biggest takeaway from this episode was how boring it all was. Most of that's probably due to reading spoilers beforehand; if I hadn't, I'm sure Dany's death would've infuriated me. But at this point, I can't seem to find it in myself to care about this show anymore.

The drama was severely undercut by D&D's choice to treat almost everything in the episode as bullet points. Nothing happened organically, it just jumped to whatever scene they thought should happen next. The cut from Dany's death to the Great Council already assembled was such a strange and awkward choice. Yes, this episode had to cover a lot of ground, but to so blatantly leave out what was sure to be some interesting scenes (Jon & Greyworm, the Stark's learning about King's Landing.

And what was up with Drogon, by the way? Why didn't he kill Jon, why melt the throne, why carry off Dany's body? None of the dragon's ever displayed that level of intelligence or emotion before.

What was the ultimate point of this show? What was the story that was told over 73 episodes? Usually there's some sort of apotheosis when a long running story ends, some catharsis. I felt nothing. Even Dexter's finale managed to get me to care again (granted, that was only for the final 15 minutes or so).

I never could've imagined the early seasons building up to this finale. What a waste, not only of the story's potential but of my time. This show was never worthy of any deep analysis or discussion. I think it's safe to say I'll never rewatch any of this show again.

I've been reading through all the posts in this thread since last night and I think these two in particular set out my general reaction to the finale so I'm quoting them rather than going to the trouble of typing out a wall of text to explain why I hated it.

I came to this show late, I started watching it just over a year ago when I had to take a few weeks off work because of an injury and I breezed through the entire series in a matter of about 2-3 weeks. I loved the first four seasons, was kinda eh about season five, loved season six and again, was kinda eh about season seven. But this season? Dear lord, what a huge shame to witness such an utterly brilliant and tightly plotted show crash and burn like this. I was in the process of a re-watch (currently close to the end of season two), but I honestly don't think I can muster up the energy to carry on with it now, knowing how it all ends up.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

That council was not a very strong one to be making this decision lol.

It's why I feel peace won't last long in Westeros. It's probably why Sansa wanted out of the politics of the South, she knows it won't last long because the council is weak.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

The ending actually seemed way too sweet than bitter imo, almost to the point of being out of place even.

I found it sad. All of the Stark kids (including Jon) who used to love eachother in the beginning, are now going their separate ways, probably to never see eachother again. Also, unless Jon violates his agreement of not fathering any children, all the great houses are now gone after this generation except for the Baratheons and maybe the Tullys.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

They spent most of the budget on establishing shots and too much time just lingering on a characters face. That convo between Tyrion and Jon in the cell went on for 10 minutes too long. And before even that, they spent an absurd amount of time just showing Tyrion's sideway face. Like wtf? What's the point of that? There was a ton of those throughout the season, just prolonged shots of a character's face not saying anything. That killed at least an hour they could've used for more story detail throughout the season.

What about the whole weird thing with Arya and the horse, and in the end, she still stayed in Kings Landing when she should have been on her way home. I thought that whole slowmotion scene was very bizarre.

 

[kguillou]

I havent been on Facebook a while but I just went on to scroll through my feed and good God, people are PISSED to high Heaven about this ending. Every post from everyone I know on there ranges from disappointment to straight anger. And again, these people arent geeks, theyre just regular joes who’ve watched and followed the show. Subverting expectations or not, the writers have to be feeling really awful about this reception, I know I would.

 

[Marvolo]

D&D probably dont feel awful. They're free from GOT, were paid millions, and are going to direct a star wars film next.

 

[MaceB]

I love how Dany is a monster for slaughtering thousands of innocent people to sit on the throne, but it’s totally cool that Bran knew Dany was going to slaughter thousands of innocent people and just sat back quietly to let it happen so he can sit on the throne.

Bran can't see the future. I don't think he knew this would happen.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I love how Dany is a monster for slaughtering thousands of innocent people to sit on the throne, but it’s totally cool that Bran knew Dany was going to slaughter thousands of innocent people and just sat back quietly to let it happen so he can sit on the throne.

This bugs the **** out of me too. Unless he can't warg a dragon, something definitely doesn't add up.

 

[Iceman]

The seven kingdoms becoming six was unexpected. Sansa pulling out like that I didn't know was possible without another war.

Probably wouldn't have been so easy without her brother on the throne.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I found it sad. All of the Stark kids (including Jon) who used to love eachother in the beginning, are now going their separate ways, probably to never see eachother again. Also, unless Jon violates his agreement of not fathering any children, all the great houses are now gone after this generation except for the Baratheons and maybe the Tullys.

In universe I could see it as being a sad story. But from an audience perspective it was kinda good, not bittersweet at all.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Bran can't see the future. I don't think he knew this would happen.

“Why do you think I came all this way?” Sounds like he had a pretty good idea he knew what was gonna happen. And it isn't the first time: when he was “waiting for an old friend” anticipating Jamie's imminent arrival at Winterfell earlier this season. And I don't think it was an accident he gifted the Valyrian dagger to Arya.

 

[MaceB]

“Why do you think I came all this way?” Sounds like he had a pretty good idea he knew what was gonna happen. And it isn't the first time: when he was “waiting for an old friend” anticipating Jamie's imminent arrival at Winterfell earlier this season. And I don't think it was an accident he gifted the Valyrian dagger to Arya.

I guess it was left intentionally vague. Cause if Bran could see the future, then that sure would have been a big help. I feel like the 3ER is patient, and knows a lot... so he's willing to wait for people he has to talk to, etc. He probably has enough foresight to appear almost like he can see the future, but I think any illusion that he can is just the show cheating. I think he gave Arya the dagger for the reason he said - it's useless with him, and he knows that she is a strong fighter. I can see why you might think otherwise, though.

 

[Donner]

 

[InCali]

I guess it was left intentionally vague. Cause if Bran could see the future, then that sure would have been a big help. I feel like the 3ER is patient, and knows a lot... so he's willing to wait for people he has to talk to, etc. He probably has enough foresight to appear almost like he can see the future, but I think any illusion that he can is just the show cheating. I think he gave Arya the dagger for the reason he said - it's useless with him, and he knows that she is a strong fighter. I can see why you might think otherwise, though.

My take is that Bran could (somewhat) see what was going to happen, but the details were vague. I think of it along the lines of maybe walking somewhere. Depending on how things work out, you may take this or that different path, but, you basically know where you're going and things can go wrong on the way.

 

[InCali]

I totally get it. Still, I'll bet there are some people who would feel differently if it were Cersei and Jaime. It was a really creepy scene and I actually didn't realize what had happened for a minute. What DO you do if you are in his shoes?

 

[Donner]

I totally get it. Still, I'll bet there are some people who would feel differently if it were Cersei and Jaime. It was a really creepy scene and I actually didn't realize what had happened for a minute. What DO you do if you are in his shoes?

Not kill her after embracing her. Maybe give her a chance to defend herself (sans dragon). It's just a ****ty way to kill someone.

 

[Drizzle]

Now that I've had time to watch it a second time, I have to say that I don't hate it like many others did. Rather, I just felt mild disappointment. But that being said, I didn't think it was bad. I think the big issue was that it felt way too rushed but that's because of the shortened season. I think if seasons 7 and 8 had been split into two 10-episode seasons it would have been better. An additional seven episodes would have been a good amount of breathing time. Season 7 could have ended with the Battle of Winterfell and 8 could have dealt with the final confrontation with Cersei and Dany's descent into madness.

I enjoyed most of the characters' endings, specifically Sansa and Tyrion. Jon ended up where I honestly think he's always wanted to be...free in the North. The best part of the episode was Dinklage's performance. For that alone, you can't call it a bad episode. I also loved the first half hour. I'm still processing Bran as king but he probably is the best person for the job. It just feels a bit unearned for a character who they literally forgot about for an entire season.

Overall, I thought it could have ended better, but it also could have ended a lot worse. For a show that got this popular, the ending was never going to satisfy everyone. I loved the hell out of this show and I always will. Even though it stumbled a bit at the finish, no one can take away the absolute greatness that this show has been overall and just how impressive an achievement it was for television.

 

[Legendver2]

The seven kingdoms becoming six was unexpected. Sansa pulling out like that I didn't know was possible without another war.

It's called nepotism In fact, that entire election and sentencing was nepotism. Bran must have known the Night's Watch is BS. It was some mumbo jumbo to get Grey Worm off their asses. He essentially freed Jon to where he wanted to go to begin with, under the pretense of a "sentence".

I found it sad. All of the Stark kids (including Jon) who used to love eachother in the beginning, are now going their separate ways, probably to never see eachother again. Also, unless Jon violates his agreement of not fathering any children, all the great houses are now gone after this generation except for the Baratheons and maybe the Tullys.

I don't think anyone's gonna know or care if Jon fathered children. The wall is essentially unmanned, Bran knew the wall is useless, just an excuse to get Grey Worm off their ass.Jon essentially can do whatever the heck he wants. I mean who's really gonna go to the wall, then go beyond the wall, to check on Jon at this point?

Subverting expectations or not, the writers have to be feeling really awful about this reception, I know I would.

You're assuming the writers care. These are the same guys that turned down HBO's offer for more funding to go up to season 10 to wrap so they can move on to mess up Star Wars.
Do people really think Jon's the victim here? Most of the people I talked to or watched/read reviews about all felt Dany was the tragic hero/victim/villain while nobody really cared for, or neutral at best, the rest of Jon's arc afterwards. I think people cared more about Drogon than for Jon really at that point.

 

[JimThompson]

I guess, after all is said and done and I have had some time to think on it, I would say that was a fair conclusion. A better episode that the three preceding it, but still uneven and, as others have said, rushed.

 

[Drizzle]

Anyone else think it's strange that HBO hasn't dropped a "Game Revealed" or "Inside the Episode" for this one? I can't imagine that documentary they're airing on Sunday is just about the finale.

 

[MaceB]

Maybe they are holding back to provide more new material to the Documentary. When is that airing anyway?

 

[Legendver2]

Anyone else think it's strange that HBO hasn't dropped a "Game Revealed" or "Inside the Episode" for this one? I can't imagine that documentary they're airing on Sunday is just about the finale.

Pretty sure it's that, as well as a season retrospective and interviews with the actors and dumb and dumber themselves.