Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Prison Mike]

I would have loved to see a Jon/Greyworm fight scene. I wonder who would have won

 

[RoastBeast]

I would have loved to see a Jon/Greyworm fight scene. I wonder who would have won

We were robbed.

In so many ways. Queenslayer vs. Unsullied death match. how did that not happen?

 

[Madam-Shogun]

We were robbed.

In so many ways. Queenslayer vs. Unsullied death match. how did that not happen?

Great opportunity for another war/skirmish to break out lol. The northerners aren't going to let that slide if Greyworm wins. Another kerfuffle break out and even more people dies.

 

[BatLobster]

GRRM's post about the show ending. He kept it classy, unsurprisingly.

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

Book or show, which will be the “real” ending? It’s a silly question. How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have?

How about this? I’ll write it. You read it. Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet.

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

 

[Man in the Suit]

Because he knows his ending will never be published!

 

[FunkMiller]

I will never understand how Grey Worm walks in to find a pool of blood, Jon with an empty sheath, and no Queen or dragon... and Jon's not a meat pile in seconds.

I’m not quite sure, but I have a theory - it’s a pretty good one I think - and the reason is... this episode was written by two people who couldn’t give a **** anymore, because lightsabers.

Again... not too sure, but it’s a theory that fits in with what we saw in the episode.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The vitriol is reaching a deliciously silly peak.

 

[Sithborg]

How could he know that Drogon wasn't going to lose it after Mommy was murdered and literally destroy all of Westeros? Jon lucked out that he blamed the throne, and not the entire land in which everything went to hell for him.

I am going to miss the chrysreviews the most...
Bonus: when you see it

Spoiler

 

[squeekness]

Because he knows his ending will never be published!

Exactly!

 

[Roose Bolton]

How could he know that Drogon wasn't going to lose it after Mommy was murdered and literally destroy all of Westeros? Jon lucked out that he blamed the throne, and not the entire land in which everything went to hell for him.

I’d say because there was 150 years of Targaryen history where the dragons didn’t destroy Westeros when their riders died. Balerion the Black Dread was far larger and more dangerous than Drogon and didn’t go on a rampage when Aegon the Conqueror died.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would have loved to see a Jon/Greyworm fight scene. I wonder who would have won

Jon Snow. Greyworm kind of sucked at fighting. Hell all the Unsullied did.

 

[RoastBeast]

If this was true to GRRM's plan, here's what I'm thinking: Tyrion basically played and won.

He had a deal with Daenerys: bells toll, don't burn it down. She did it anyway, betrayed him, and Tyrion's last family died. What do you know- now he owes her payback. And a Lannister always pays their debts. Who is the weak link? Jon. Tyrion channeled Ned with the Hand pin toss to help trigger some Ned compulsion in Jon, then he met with him and played him. Jon didn't know Dany long enough to be willing to kill her asap, but hey, with her own erstwhile Hand saying she needed to be put down, and bringing in the threat to Sansa et al... Tyrion knew what to do and say. Once it was done, Tyrion owed a debt to House Stark, and he paid it- one's the king, Sansa's a queen, John is free and so is Arya. And he didn't come out too shabby either, getting his pin back. So Tyrion comes out on top. Over everyone.

Anyway, that's what I bet it would be if GRRM published it, and there wasn't this truncated quick version. This would make more sense to me than what came on Sunday.

 

[RoastBeast]

I’d say because there was 150 years of Targaryen history where the dragons didn’t destroy Westeros when their riders died. Balerion the Black Dread was far larger and more dangerous than Drogon and didn’t go on a rampage when Aegon the Conqueror died.

Yeah, but Aegon wasn't the Mama.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yeah, but Aegon wasn't the Mama.

And yet, every other Targaryen dragon was raised by their rider from birth, so it’s the same basic thing. The dragons are usually intelligent enough to not flip their **** all the time unless commanded.

 

[Iceman]

I also love how Dany and Grey Worm slaughtered an entire city of men, women, and children, but Grey Worm is hung up on Tyrion freeing his brother which ultimately caused Jaime to die with Cersei.

Grey Worm is a bit of a **** these days.

 

[JimThompson]

Yup.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

and Tyrion saying Bran had the best story and survived past the wall WELL WHO DID ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING literally Meera Reed and she was no where to be found this season not even a mention that SHE HUNTED THE FOOD dragged him on a sled in the snow and she couldn't even be the one that wheeled him into that small council meeting it just gets worse the more I think about it

Yeah, they did Meera wrong. I felt like they got her out of the way because they can't have more than one young girl who is a bad ass.

Euron was the only skilled Avenger to easily kill an evil dragon. Jon should have found a way to have Euron resurrected by Melisandre or another messenger of the Lord of Light. Then they team up ala Picard and Kirk to take down Drogon with harpoon and a good ol’ fisticuffs

Euron is quite the hero. He stabbed the Kingslayer and is a killer of Dragons!!

I keep hearing in the books, that he has learned some magic himself and has a horn he can blow that can control the dragons, and that would have been an interesting turn of events if the show had gone down that direction.

Some things I didn't understand.

How was Tyrion able to so directly find Jamie? It's like he knew exactly where he was.

He had already settled with Davos to have a boat waiting for him down by the dungeons, and he went to see if Jaime was able to make it, and found the truth. I'm more baffled that with all of the destruction going on, the book of Knights Brienne was writing in was completely intact and not destroyed.

Why did the council listen to Tyrion and have him basically choose the next king?

Good question. The throne and the idea of a new king should have been like the throne itself, gone from all memory. Once Sansa wanted independence, all the other kingdoms should have been asking for it too.

Why didn't Drogon kill Jon after killing Dany?

How would the dragon know it was Jon who did it? He seen Jon crying over Dany like he seen Dany crying over Jorah. And the way he took out the throne, maybe he thought it was the throne that killed her with all of the swords sticking out?

Where did Drogon take Dany?

Most likely to her true home of Valeria, however, some speculate dragons are indeed connected to the Gods, and maybe he went to go hunt down one of the red priests to see if she can be revived?

Why did Drogon melt the Iron Throne? It's not like it knew what its significance was. The dragons were never shown to have greater than animal level intelligence.

1 of two reasons. First one, I already mentioned. With the dagger sticking out of Dany, maybe he assumed it was the throne that stuck her. 2- Dragons are actually smart, and especially Drogon have a bond with Dany. When she was in danger at the fighting pits in Mereen, he came to her rescue when she needed it the most, and he even dropped her off in the lands of Dothraki, showing he remembers places they have been. I also won't be surprised if he can also feel what she feels and sees what she sees since the bond is so close.

Does Jon going into the Windling's land suggest that he could become the next Night King in the far future? Hence, giving proof to history repeating itself.

I don't see how, he's not a White Walker. And the Children of the Forest have a lot to do with that stuff, and I am going to assume they are all gone now. Personally, the whole show left off with this calm before the storm vibe to it. Kind of like the ending of The Hobbit, and the real war (LOTR) won't start until 10 or 20 years from now. I personally don't trust Bran, and think he's really the 3ER, and let a lot of death happen so he can become ruler of Westeros. He could very well be the true darkness that comes over Westeros. I also think the patterns the White Walkers were very similar to the Targaryen symbol.

Isn't West of Westeros the eastern part of the map since the world is round? I find it hard to believe that no one has circumnavigated the world given all the great civilizations of the past and present.

I'm assuming this world and it's time of events is alot like our own, where despite the massive civilizations, they still didn't begin exploring until the 1400's, and I assume that it's because they were waiting for the technology and engineering of ships to become more sound. I'm more confused as to when Arya all of a sudden became a nautical and mapping expert.

The shot of Dany with dragon wings behind her was beautiful.

Agreed.

I will never understand how Grey Worm walks in to find a pool of blood, Jon with an empty sheath, and no Queen or dragon... and Jon's not a meat pile in seconds.

I don't like how they had Greyworm at all. He and his queen got blood thirsty in the end, and he should be on his knees thanking Jon because without Jon letting them all know about the White Walkers and the dead, they could have been sacking Kings Landing and thinking things are great when they get attacked by the dead, and have no idea how to defend themselves. They don't know anything about dragonglass, fire or Valerian steel. I'm going to assume while Jon was going to Daenerys, Arya was busy getting Davos and gathering their men ready to defend Jon. It's possible that Varys birds got to the right kingdoms and they already came with military to defend Westeros against a foreign invasion. And knowing Davos, he was probably right around the corner ready to negotiate or say something to calm Greyworm down.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

We were robbed.

In so many ways. Queenslayer vs. Unsullied death match. how did that not happen?

We were robbed of Jon doing any really awesome fights. He has always been one of the better fighters on the show, and he didn't get anything these last two seasons. We got robbed of him fighting and taking out several White Walkers, and I still don't see why they couldn't have him jump off Rheaegal and drive LongClaw right in the top of the Wight Dragon's head, taking him out, so at least he did something in that episode. And like you said, a great fight of him against the unsullied and dothraki would have been lit as well. It's like the writers were afraid to give him anything. Most of the cool stuff went to Arya, Sandor or Daenerys. Even Jaime and Euron had a fight, even though I'd rather have one between Jon and Greyworm.

I’m not quite sure, but I have a theory - it’s a pretty good one I think - and the reason is... this episode was written by two people who couldn’t give a **** anymore, because lightsabers.

Again... not too sure, but it’s a theory that fits in with what we saw in the episode.

It sure feels like this episode and the last were indeed written by two people. Bells had made us quite aware of the Hound telling Arya to forget about her revenge and get out of Kings Landing so she don't die, and then he spends the rest of the episode trying to kill his brother, and Arya in the end, sees some magical horse and jumps on to get out of town, but then by the last episode, she is back again, and Jon is asking why she is there and she gives some lame response on how she was there to kill Cersei but Daenerys beat her to it, but that wasn't true, The Hound told her to stop pursuing the woman or it would consume her life. And no mention of the Hound. Arya went out of her way to pay her respects to Beric, but not a damn word about the Hound. Couldn't even name her ship "Sandor" in tribute or something. It was really frustrating that they could find the time for Brienne to write the deeds of Jaime in the book of Knights, but nothing on someone writing about the deeds of Sandor Clegane, and how for a short time he watched over the Princess who was Promised?

 

[MaceB]

Does Jon going into the Windling's land suggest that he could become the next Night King in the far future? Hence, giving proof to history repeating itself.

The fact that they didn't go for the temptation to make this just one iteration of an endless cycle is what I liked most about the ending, frankly. Glad they didn't go for that overused trope at this point.

It's like the writers were afraid to give him anything. Most of the cool stuff went to Arya, Sandor or Daenerys. Even Jaime and Euron had a fight, even though I'd rather have one between Jon and Greyworm.

I honestly believe that Kit must have pissed off D&D somehow, and this is retribution. All things being equal, that seems like the most likely reason to me. Because narratively, it's like they went out of their way to neuter Jon in this season.

If you honestly believe this, you haven't been paying attention. Which is my biggest problem with a lot the criticism that's been thrown. People either haven't been paying attention or they think they're own headcanon is fact. Dany was ALWAYS going to burn King's Landing to the ground.

 

[Iceman]

Also a good example of corruption with Bronn the Waster as Master of Coin.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

The fact that they didn't go for the temptation to make this just one iteration of an endless cycle is what I liked most about the ending, frankly. Glad they didn't go for that overused trope at this point.




I honestly believe that Kit must have pissed off D&D somehow, and this is retribution. All things being equal, that seems like the most likely reason to me. Because narratively, it's like they went out of their way to neuter Jon in this season.

I would argue that it isn't just my opinion given the almost laughable amount of foreshadowing they've been throwing at us over the years and the overall cynical and nihilistic tone of the material.

 

[Drizzle]

Watching it again, I'm realizing that one of the more blatant mistakes in how the episode was written is Sam presenting Tyrion with the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book. I get that Tyrion not being mentioned in the book was supposed to be a "ha ha" moment but logically it makes no sense. Tywin Lannister's death is a major focal point in the events that happened from Robert's death until then, and why wouldn't it be mentioned that he was murdered by Tyrion? To a slightly lesser degree, Tyrion would have also been mentioned quite a bit in regards to Joffrey's death, even though he had no involvement.

 

[heatvision38]

I’m still stunned that this stupid, stupid season made absolutely zero effort to outline the Night King’s motivations.

Zero. None.

The main villain of Game Of Thrones was given no development whatsoever.

‘I want to kill Bran’. That’s it. Nothing else. No reason for it. No explanation. No motivation. Nothing.

All of that build up. All of that foreshadowing. All of that story... for nothing.

Unbelievable.

This is when the show died, imo. The NK succeeded, he killed GoT.

 

[MaceB]

I would argue that it isn't just my opinion given the almost laughable amount of foreshadowing they've been throwing at us over the years and the overall cynical and nihilistic tone of the material.

It's a question of what they were foreshadowing. Obviously, they've hinted at Dany being harsh with her enemies. But massacring thousands of unarmed men, women, and children? That is very out of character for Dany, and it was presented in such a way that she literally went crazy, because the city had surrendered. There was no tactical advantage here, where there had always been one before. Obviously it came off this way because it was so rushed. If it had been given time, and she transformed into an evil Dragon Queen after taking the crown... that'd be another story.

So IMO, you saying...' oh it's been highly hinted that Dany would become a Mad Queen'.... I say....ehhh sort of. It hinted that Dany would be a tyrannical ruler... not a homicidal maniac for absolutely no reason. Being quick to anger or having a large temper is one thing.... indiscriminately killing whoever you see is something else.

If anything, they went out of their way to present Dany as a hero as deliberate misdirection to this moment. Dany is a liberator... a champion of the common man. She fought tirelessly to take King's Landing without causing unnecessary death, only to turn at the flip of a hat... and deliberately kill innocent people, for no other reason than pure blood lust. Was that foreshadowed? If so... they did a poor job of it, IMO.