Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[JimThompson]

I mean Mad Queen Daenerys is the most likely outcome in general...

And therein lies part of the issue I had with the way this worked out. For a show that built a large part of its reputation off of defying people's expectations, it really did seem to telegraph how it was going to work out in the final season.

Subtle it was not.

 

[jolldan]

The North/South/Midlands Divide Is Causing Arguments On Social Media Again

 

[JimThompson]

 

[P Supreme]

Watching it again, I'm realizing that one of the more blatant mistakes in how the episode was written is Sam presenting Tyrion with the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book. I get that Tyrion not being mentioned in the book was supposed to be a "ha ha" moment but logically it makes no sense. Tywin Lannister's death is a major focal point in the events that happened from Robert's death until then, and why wouldn't it be mentioned that he was murdered by Tyrion? To a slightly lesser degree, Tyrion would have also been mentioned quite a bit in regards to Joffrey's death, even though he had no involvement.

also that the prince of Dorne Oberyn fought on his behalf and that led to Marcella Dying in the hands of the Dornish assassins which led to Cercei going 'Mad Queen" and blowing up the ceptar
so all of that will get glossed over? SMFH

also him telling Varys about Jon's true parentage led to Dany going "mad" so

it was all dumb I couldn't even chuckle at the joke attempts to be honest

 

[JimThompson]

'Game of Thrones' Series Finale Explained by a First-Time Viewer

 

[FunkMiller]

The North/South/Midlands Divide Is Causing Arguments On Social Media Again

The Wall = Watford Gap.

 

[TheVileOne]

I fully acknowledge history might treat Game of Thrones better in the future simply for how big and popular it was and it did things on a scale you never saw with a TV show before, even for TV shows that were big scale. We shall see.

 

[JimThompson]

I fully acknowledge history might treat Game of Thrones better in the future simply for how big and popular it was and it did things on a scale you never saw with a TV show before, even for TV shows that were big scale. We shall see.

Possible.

On the other hand, how do people tend to remember Dexter? Or The Sopranos? The first thing most people seem to recall about those shows is how much they hated their endings.

Be interesting to see how this show is viewed in a year or so.

 

[Donner]

The books will have an impact for sure. I think it'll actually make people think less of the ending than they do now.

 

[CaptainWagner]

And therein lies part of the issue I had with the way this worked out. For a show that built a large part of its reputation off of defying people's expectations, it really did seem to telegraph how it was going to work out in the final season.

Subtle it was not.

And yet the huge amount of reactions insisting it "came out of nowhere" would say otherwise...

 

[Lip]

I hate some of the reactions coming from the fans, the cast (like Turner), or HBO's boss as well. They talk like the negative reaction towards the finale came from "people who didn't get the end they wanted". There are some very strong arguments about how rushed everything was, and how it needed more development so those twists could actually work.

It's a shame they keep deflecting criticism like this. There's no way to fix Game of Thrones now, but I fear for the books. I fear Martin could have a similar reaction and believe people are mad simply because Dany became the Mad Queen.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Can we PLEASE stop pretending that the vast majority of complaints and the childish petition signing isn't stemming from people who didn't get the ending they wanted. Acknowledging that is not a personal attack on the people with legitimate complaints. EVERYONE, even those of us who loved this season, agree that it was rushed.

But the loudest, most obnoxious attacks, declarations of "the whole show is ruined" and entitled demands to be catered to are coming from "fans" who are mad about the conclusion itself, not how we got here. There is nothing wrong with calling these people out for the way they are behaving.

 

[blackdragon6]

And therein lies part of the issue I had with the way this worked out. For a show that built a large part of its reputation off of defying people's expectations, it really did seem to telegraph how it was going to work out in the final season.

Subtle it was not.

Yeah I thought it was hamfisted to be brutally honest. Also even if they had nailed Dani's heel turn there's still a **** ton of other **** I don't like that's totally off putting. Fixing the Dani arc isn't enough for me personally.

 

[blackdragon6]

Can we PLEASE stop pretending that the vast majority of complaints and the childish petition signing isn't stemming from people who didn't get the ending they wanted. Acknowledging that is not a personal attack on the people with legitimate complaints. EVERYONE, even those of us who loved this season, agree that it was rushed.

But the loudest, most obnoxious attacks, declarations of "the whole show is ruined" and entitled demands to be catered to are coming from "fans" who are mad about the conclusion itself, not how we got here. There is nothing wrong with calling these people out for the way they are behaving.

It wasn't just rushed, but sloppy too.

 

[Lip]

Can we PLEASE stop pretending that the vast majority of complaints and the childish petition signing isn't stemming from people who didn't get the ending they wanted. Acknowledging that is not a personal attack on the people with legitimate complaints. EVERYONE, even those of us who loved this season, agree that it was rushed.

But the loudest, most obnoxious attacks, declarations of "the whole show is ruined" and entitled demands to be catered to are coming from "fans" who are mad about the conclusion itself, not how we got here. There is nothing wrong with calling these people out for the way they are behaving.

Well, I'm not pretending anything. I get that what you see from your experience is people reacting because they didn't get what they wanted. It's your truth and I won't take that away from you. But from my social circle and from I see online, including fans and critics reaction, people are mad about how things were made. And, IMO, they were pretty, pretty, pretty bad. It left a very bad taste in my mouth.

That's not pretending. You can't take that away from me.

Martin has said he is struggling to finish the books because he feels more pressured to deliver something good. If he believes people are mad because of what happened, and not how it was developed, I don't know how that can affect him.

Also, I'm sorry, but this the idea that the majority of the fans are mad because of what happened doesn't make much sense coming from the same people who watched Ned's death and the red wedding. Those events caused a lot of reactions. But not like the ones we're getting now.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Also, I'm sorry, but this the idea that the majority of the fans are mad because of what happened doesn't make much sense coming from the same people who watched Ned's death and the red wedding. Those events caused a lot of reactions. But not like the ones we're getting now.

Again, please don't read this as diminishing your own, very legitimate issues, but we must be on completely different corners of the Internet. Because for every complaint that mentions rushed writing, I've seen five angry tweets, memes or thinkpieces about how it doesn't make sense for Dany to go mad or Jon to go back past the wall or Jaime to go back to try and save Cersei. Heck, even Elizabeth Warren and AOC tried to spin Dany not getting the throne into some sort of misogynistic agenda...

 

[Lip]

Again, please don't read this as diminishing your own, very legitimate issues, but we must be on completely different corners of the Internet.

I think we do.

The thing is, for me, Dany going mad should be an event causing the same reactions that Ned's death and the Red Wedding did. People would curse and everything because it was the characters they were rooting for. But the reactions we got in this finale were very different. And it shouldn't have.

I can't say that Dany becoming the Mad Queen "came out of nowhere". I can't. When we look back, it's all there. But the way it happened in "The Bells" felt so out of nowhere that it didn't make sense at all for me. They needed more time to drive Dany to that point to make her transformation believable. But... they failed.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

I hate some of the reactions coming from the fans, the cast (like Turner), or HBO's boss as well. They talk like the negative reaction towards the finale came from "people who didn't get the end they wanted". There are some very strong arguments about how rushed everything was, and how it needed more development so those twists could actually work.

It's a shame they keep deflecting criticism like this. There's no way to fix Game of Thrones now, but I fear for the books. I fear Martin could have a similar reaction and believe people are mad simply because Dany became the Mad Queen.

I could care less about Dany being the mad queen. I just don't like they built the White Walkers as this ultimate villain, and it was taken care of in one episode. I also don't like how they had Jon being a prisoner and his whole arc was completely moot point. He could have done all of what he did without being a Targaryen to be honest. And my biggest beef, Arya and Gendry didn't end up together.

 

[MaceB]

...even Elizabeth Warren and AOC tried to spin Dany not getting the throne into some sort of misogynistic agenda...

This is one of my biggest gripes. You could literally do this for any show from any number of angles. I could make a criticism based on class, how the show is racist because Missandei was killed being shackled, which demonstrates that the show thinks slaves are always doomed to be slaves. I could make a Marxist criticism, and say Tyrion's solution of choosing a ruler does nothing to stop the oppression of the lower classes by the inbred, upper classes. I could argue that the show is ageist, by asserting killing off the older generation and even silencing Edmure.

Bunch of social warriors using the show as an opportunity to push their agendas.

 

[JimThompson]

I could care less about Dany being the mad queen. I just don't like they built the White Walkers as this ultimate villain, and it was taken care of in one episode. I also don't like how they had Jon being a prisoner and his whole arc was completely moot point. He could have done all of what he did without being a Targaryen to be honest.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Can we PLEASE stop pretending that the vast majority of complaints and the childish petition signing isn't stemming from people who didn't get the ending they wanted. Acknowledging that is not a personal attack on the people with legitimate complaints. EVERYONE, even those of us who loved this season, agree that it was rushed.

But the loudest, most obnoxious attacks, declarations of "the whole show is ruined" and entitled demands to be catered to are coming from "fans" who are mad about the conclusion itself, not how we got here. There is nothing wrong with calling these people out for the way they are behaving.

Or maybe you could stop pretending most of the complaints aren't valid and trying to write them off as people who "didn't get the ending they wanted", taking a condescending tone towards most of the people that hated the ending doesn't make you automatically right, if they'd bothered to put effort into their writing and given it the time it needed for character decisions to actually make sense then there wouldn't be anywhere near the pushback that they're getting now.

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

I don't know if you folks have ever seen Screenrants pitch meetings on YouTube, but they've released one for season 8 and it is amazing

 

[Lip]

At the end of the day, we, who hated the ending, are mad because we didn't get the ending we wanted. I wanted a good ending that made sense and was convincing, despite of what happened. I didn't get that. I didn't get the good ending I wanted.

The thing is, there's a lot of strong and valid criticism coming from it, that shouldn't be ignore. It's too late to fix GoT, but god knows how this can affect Martin.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Or maybe you could stop pretending most of the complaints aren't valid and trying to write them off as people who "didn't get the ending they wanted", taking a condescending tone towards most of the people that hated the ending doesn't make you automatically right, if they'd bothered to put effort into their writing and given it the time it needed for character decisions to actually make sense then there wouldn't be anywhere near the pushback that they're getting now.

I'm sorry, "that's not how it should end" or "this is what was supposed to happen" are NOT valid complaints. If you hated this season because the storyline was rushed and didn't develop properly, than that's a very real issue. But I'm not talking about those fans. How many times do I need to establish this before people stop deciding I'm talking about them?

I think we do.

The thing is, for me, Dany going mad should be an event causing the same reactions that Ned's death and the Red Wedding did. People would curse and everything because it was the characters they were rooting for. But the reactions we got in this finale were very different. And it shouldn't have.

I can't say that Dany becoming the Mad Queen "came out of nowhere". I can't. When we look back, it's all there. But the way it happened in "The Bells" felt so out of nowhere that it didn't make sense at all for me. They needed more time to drive Dany to that point to make her transformation believable. But... they failed.

I can agree with all of this. Cutting down the runtime of these last two seasons was an absurd choice HBO never should have approved. But I guess I'm just more inclined to focus on the positives.

 

[Lip]

I can agree with all of this. Cutting down the runtime of these last two seasons was an absurd choice HBO never should have approved. But I guess I'm just more inclined to focus on the positives.

I heard HBO actually wanted to give them more seasons and more episodes. They were the ones who didn't want. And that's one of the reasons I like and respect HBO. They usually respect the writers.

But yeah. I mean, this last season had 6 episodes. 2 of them were big battles with barely no dialogues. I'm not opposed to this kind of big battles episodes at all. But when you have so many characters and storylines to work in only 6 episodes, you use 2 of them for no dialogues? It should've been more.

But anyway...