Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[InCali]

Uh, Barristan Selmy! If you don't know who he is, I don't know what to say.

Offed defending Dany.

Damn Harpies...

 

[Madam-Shogun]

People get caught up on Dani turning heel, but I personally think there's other problems with this show going as far back as season 5. You could argue Stannis got the same treatment that Dani got. Furthermore people who seem to be ok with Dani's turn more than likely only care about a plot point being met and not how the show got to the plot point. On top of that I think this show started to slide by on spectacle too after awhile. That's just not enough for me personally. Usually it is, but not for this show which been heavily character and lore driven up until the last 3 or 4 seasons.

People seem to forget the Stannis Arc that left people enraged. His fate kinda mirror's Dani for better or for worse. I think people let season 6 slide because of goodwill and the fact it was better than season 5. But frankly a lot of problems in season 8 was seen throughout seasons 5 thru 8 imo.

 

[TheFuture]

She's also said:

There are others, including her first impulse being to "return their cities to the dirt" when she sees slave cities are laying siege to her Meereen, or burning a man alive who may have been a slaver but may have been innocent of why she killed him (trying to root out the Sons of the Harpy conspiracy). She said, "I'll let my dragons decide."

This stuff isn't foreshadowing; it's an actual part of her character. I agree Season 8 rushed it and how they got there in one episode with "The Last of the Starks" is tacky, but to say what she did is against her character... I think this is GRRM's point. We love some leaders and do not believe they are capable of doing horrible things, especially as we give them absolute power.

Dany has said some messed up things, done some messed up things; that I accept. But I always saw her words as bravado and the fact that she was always talked down was evidence in itself that she never really had it in her to do what she did in The Bells.

I keep coming back to the same scene that helps convince me that The Bells was a disgrace to her character; the fact that this woman locked up her children when she thought even just one innocent child was harmed.

Burning the Masters, Tarlys, etc....these were both cases of a group being given every chance to get in line; not only did they not, but they actively defied the mercy she extended them.

 

[Brother Jack]

People seem to forget the Stannis Arc that left people enraged. His fate kinda mirror's Dani for better or for worse. I think people let season 6 slide because of goodwill and the fact it was better than season 5. But frankly a lot of problems in season 8 was seen throughout seasons 5 thru 8 imo.

Season 5 has a lot of issues. It never felt like they knew confidently what to do with Stannis, and Dorne just did not work at all. But I like Season 6 quite a bit. It's not perfect (Arya's plotline), but its strengths are very strong. The last two episodes are among the best in the series, and one of the best season-enders of any show. "The Winds of Winter" was almost too good in the sense that the subsequent seasons couldn't live up to all that is promised.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Dany has said some messed up things, done some messed up things; that I accept. But I always saw her words as bravado and the fact that she was always talked down was evidence in itself that she never really had it in her to do what she did in The Bells.

I keep coming back to the same scene that helps convince me that The Bells was a disgrace to her character; the fact that this woman locked up her children when she thought even just one innocent child was harmed.

Burning the Masters, Tarlys, etc....these were both cases of a group being given every chance to get in line; not only did they not, but they actively defied the mercy she extended them.

Which is why I never felt sorry for the Tarlys tbh.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

Offed defending Dany.

Damn Harpies...

He has a much bigger play in the books, but for whatever reason, Benioff and Weiss killed him off. Same with Stannis.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Season 5 has a lot of issues. It never felt like they knew confidently what to do with Stannis, and Dorne just did not work at all. But I like Season 6 quite a bit. It's not perfect (Arya's plotline), but its strengths are very strong. The last two episodes are among the best in the series, and one of the best season-enders of any show. "The Winds of Winter" was almost too good in the sense that the subsequent seasons couldn't live up to all that is promised.

They didn't care about Dorne, but they were stuck with it narratively (because of myrcella). Dorne deserved better, so did the actors. Same for Euron who sounds more interesting in the book.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

He has a much bigger play in the books, but for whatever reason, Benioff and Weiss killed him off. Same with Stannis.

I heard they didn't get along with the actor.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

I heard they didn't get along with the actor.

That's because he read the books and would call them out when they were doing something different. Benioff and Weiss seem to be very egotistic, and would kill your character off or have you removed from the set if you dared question their decisions. I was just watching an interview with GRRM, and he basically says he wanted 13 season, D&D didn't, and he then says they won, and the interviewer asks him why didn't they want to continue, and he says, "ask them, they are coming".

 

[TheFuture]

That's because he read the books and would call them out when they were doing something different. Benioff and Weiss seem to be very egotistic, and would kill your character off or have you removed from the set if you dared question their decisions. I was just watching an interview with GRRM, and he basically says he wanted 13 season, D&D didn't, and he then says they won, and the interviewer asks him why didn't they want to continue, and he says, "ask them, they are coming".

Looking back in hindsight, it was weird the manner in which they announced the end of the show years ago. As in we knew season 8 would be the last in what, 2015 or 2016?

Perhaps D&D baulked at the idea of a prestige going on for 13 seasons. Ego definitely played it's part.

 

[Iceman]

That's because he read the books and would call them out when they were doing something different. Benioff and Weiss seem to be very egotistic, and would kill your character off or have you removed from the set if you dared question their decisions. I was just watching an interview with GRRM, and he basically says he wanted 13 season, D&D didn't, and he then says they won, and the interviewer asks him why didn't they want to continue, and he says, "ask them, they are coming".

Oh damn. That could have been so good if Martin got his wish.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He has a much bigger play in the books, but for whatever reason, Benioff and Weiss killed him off. Same with Stannis.

It's almost like my gif asking who he was, was a joke on how he was handled on the show...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh damn. That could have been so good if Martin got his wish.

13 seasons was way too much. But 9, maybe even 10 sounds right. We needed at least full seasons for 7 and 8.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

It's almost like my gif asking who he was, was a joke on how he was handled on the show...

I have no idea what you are saying here. Remember, sarcasm and jokes don't go over so well on the internet.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have no idea what you are saying here. Remember, sarcasm and jokes don't go over so well on the internet.

I am talking about your response to my post on the last page.

Uh, Barristan Selmy! If you don't know who he is, I don't know what to say.

Which I mean just read the post on the last page. Of course I know who he is.

 

[JimThompson]

That's because he read the books and would call them out when they were doing something different. Benioff and Weiss seem to be very egotistic, and would kill your character off or have you removed from the set if you dared question their decisions. I was just watching an interview with GRRM, and he basically says he wanted 13 season, D&D didn't, and he then says they won, and the interviewer asks him why didn't they want to continue, and he says, "ask them, they are coming".

“We could’ve gone 11, 12, 13 seasons,” George R. R. Martin told Variety at the Primetime Emmys red carpet on Monday, where “Game of Thrones” leads the nominations with 22. He said the decision to end the series now was up to showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss.

“David and Dan have been saying for like five seasons that seven seasons is all they would go,” the “Game of Thrones” author continued. “We got them to go to eight but not any more than that. There was a period like five years ago when they were saying seven seasons and I was saying 10 seasons and they won, they’re the ones actually working on it.”

George RR Martin, 2018

‘Game of Thrones’ Author George R. R. Martin Didn’t Want the Show to End: ‘We Could’ve Gone 11, 12, 13 Seasons’

 

[Brother Jack]

13 is overkill. 9 seasons would've been a comfortable medium, where they had an ample amount of time to build naturally to the ending rather than sprint toward it for no real reason. I don't think anyone would disagree that there should've been more episodes, at least a full ten for seasons 7 and 8.

 

[Mysteryman]

Anybody else watching the documentary on the final season?
I am looking forward to it.

 

[jfurioso]

Dany has said some messed up things, done some messed up things; that I accept. But I always saw her words as bravado and the fact that she was always talked down was evidence in itself that she never really had it in her to do what she did in The Bells.

I keep coming back to the same scene that helps convince me that The Bells was a disgrace to her character; the fact that this woman locked up her children when she thought even just one innocent child was harmed.

Burning the Masters, Tarlys, etc....these were both cases of a group being given every chance to get in line; not only did they not, but they actively defied the mercy she extended them.

So basically she said to the defeated and helpless Tarlys: SWEAR OBEDIENCE TO ME OR DIE.
And they would not swear so they died.
And she talks about ending slavery? I see some kind of contradiction there.

THE BELLS was a disgrace because it was played out so ineptly in so many ways. They should simply have kept the two dragons alive until the attack on King's Landing and have one of them fall to a scorpion during it. That would have been enough to trigger her rage and make it seem less out of left field.
But basically there should have been at least four or five episodes of better build up.

 

[Lip]

I'm sorry if this was already posted before, but I felt it was important to share:

‘Game of Thrones’ Fans Who Started Season 8 Petition Raise Over $25,000 for Emilia Clarke Charity

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

People get caught up on Dani turning heel, but I personally think there's other problems with this show going as far back as season 5. You could argue Stannis got the same treatment that Dani got. Furthermore people who seem to be ok with Dani's turn more than likely only care about a plot point being met and not how the show got to the plot point. On top of that I think this show started to slide by on spectacle too after awhile. That's just not enough for me personally. Usually it is, but not for this show which been heavily character and lore driven up until the last 3 or 4 seasons.

Well the problem with Show!Stannis is that he never grew out of his ACoK personality. In ACoK he's meant to be unlikable, until ASoS. Show!Stannis stayed an ash flash from Season 2 - Season 5. They started adding a litlle more of 'just' nature only when they were getting ready to kill him. They even reduced the impact he had on the entire story in season one, and left Ned speechless when Renly said Stannis would be a terrible king, as if he couldn't argue with that.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That was another problem, in that they fundamentally misread the Baratheons. They stated Renly was such a great guy, would have made an amazing king etc...that’s really not what the narrative of the books tells us.

Renly is a really charming guy, but it’s all false charm. He’s very good at getting people to like him, but he’s not really a good guy. Brienne adored him, but Renly thought she was a big joke and just took advantage of her devotion. He had been plotting for years to have who he believed to be his niece and nephews killed so that his lover’s family could come in and replace them, with Margaery marrying Robert. He joked about Shireen nearly dying of Greyscale and openly joked about killing Stannis but not mutilating his corpse too much. They really did a disservice in the show by making him the “good” sibling.

It’s as Donal Noye told Jon, “Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.”

 

[Marvolo]

She's also said:

There are others, including her first impulse being to "return their cities to the dirt" when she sees slave cities are laying siege to her Meereen, or burning a man alive who may have been a slaver but may have been innocent of why she killed him (trying to root out the Sons of the Harpy conspiracy). She said, "I'll let my dragons decide."

This stuff isn't foreshadowing; it's an actual part of her character. I agree Season 8 rushed it and how they got there in one episode with "The Last of the Starks" is tacky, but to say what she did is against her character... I think this is GRRM's point. We love some leaders and do not believe they are capable of doing horrible things, especially as we give them absolute power.

That was just talk. The second example especially. She was trying to strong arm her way into Carth.

Talk is easy, but actually slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians with dragon fire is a whole other level.

This is the woman that crucified thousands because of their treatment of the innocent. This is the woman that locked her babies up because of a single dead child. This is the woman that agonized over executing a single commoner for crimes so that she wouldnt appear partisan. This is the woman that stood up to a doth raki that was trying to rape a woman. This is the woman that freed thousands or millions in Essos and outlawed slavery everywhere she went. This is the woman that repeatedly refused to reopen the fighting pits because the fighting pits and what they represented were antithetical to her ideas. It took repeated pressure and threat before she caved. Prior to episode 5 she had a temper and strong morals and goals. But what she did in Episode five was so far beyond that that it only makes sense as a sudden acute mania brought on by emotional trauma and depression. Ir wasnt a bloodthirsty nature that naturally developed.

 

[JimThompson]

That was just talk. The second example especially. She was trying to strong arm her way into Carth.

Talk is easy, but actually slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians with dragon fire is a whole other level.

This is the woman that crucified thousands because of their treatment of the innocent. This is the woman that locked her babies up because of a single dead child. This is the woman that agonized over executing a single commoner for crimes so that she wouldnt appear partisan. This is the woman that stood up to a doth raki that was trying to rape a woman. This is the woman that repeatedly refused to reopen the fighting pits because the fighting pits and what they represented were antithetical to her ideas. It took repeated pressure and threat before she caved. Prior to episode 5 she had a temper and strong morals and goals. But what she did in Episode five was so far beyond that that it only makes sense as a sudden acute mania brought on by emotional trauma and depression. Ir wasnt a bloodthirsty nature that naturally developed.

Well said.

 

[Roose Bolton]

'Game of Thrones' writer reveals which character was originally going to live