Gears of War 3

[Team Andino]

I've been looking forward to something on Gears 3 for a while now and that got me really excited. I can't wait for this one

 

[jacobed]

I don't agree with the idea that they all need character development. Marcus is the one character I don't want to see have a huge backstory or anything he is a bad ass who has a thing for Anya plain and simple and if you try and complicate that with a backstory he could end up being not so bad ass ala Darth Vader. Dom's story so far is one of the best in video games. I mean c'mon who didn't get choked up when he had to kill his wife in a game like this to relay emotions like that is a pretty tall order. I'm going to suspect that Cole and Baird will have larger roles this time around since they will be playable which is going to be nice and obviously we'll probably divulge a bit more into their characters. Gears 3 is going to be one of those rare games where I'm incredibly pumped for the single player and the multiplayer well we'll just have to wait and see on the multiplayer.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I don't think we'll see a new console next year. I am happy about Gears 3 tho. Love this series.

 

[Soapy]

I don't agree with the idea that they all need character development. Marcus is the one character I don't want to see have a huge backstory or anything he is a bad ass who has a thing for Anya plain and simple and if you try and complicate that with a backstory he could end up being not so bad ass ala Darth Vader. Dom's story so far is one of the best in video games. I mean c'mon who didn't get choked up when he had to kill his wife in a game like this to relay emotions like that is a pretty tall order. I'm going to suspect that Cole and Baird will have larger roles this time around since they will be playable which is going to be nice and obviously we'll probably divulge a bit more into their characters. Gears 3 is going to be one of those rare games where I'm incredibly pumped for the single player and the multiplayer well we'll just have to wait and see on the multiplayer.

Dom's "story" if you want to call it that fell totally flat for me. There was no emotion to it precisely because of poor character development. I don't care about any of the characters or what happens to them in these games because they're not believable in the slightest sense of the word. To be honest I really don't even feel comfortable calling them characters. Caricature is probably more accurate.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I loved Dom's story, and yes you can call it a story... one of the things that the Gears franchise really established is the story telling through dialogue on the fly, which developed characters a hell of a lot more than has been done previous. Normally theres just gameplay, and then you wait for the cutscenes to move the story along. I don't think you can say theres no character development in Gears, because it occurs all the way through the game.

I think some people confuse character development with giving a character a back story, or long winded exposition explaining how they feel. The character development essentially occurs whenever we see a character react to a given situation, or reflect on anything, or as they change. Because the game takes place over a number of hours, they can afford to develop things gradually, rather than quickly over like a 2 hour movie...

With Doms character, we can see him go from the positive wisecracking character, to the determined steely character (I mean at one stage he essentially usurps Marcus as a lead character) culminating with the death of Maria. Then, seeing him with the beard in Gears 3 looks like he may have let go a little, and is still affected by Maria's death... thats a pretty good 3 game character arc if you ask me.

Also, I read a really good article the other day about how Marcus fenix isn't your average, typical 'badass' video game character, simply for the fact that he doesn't revel in killing or violence, which I think is a really interesting choice. He's more a character of pathos, and his voice always sounds more tired and fed up to me than pure testosterone anger. I think all we need to develop his character further is to finish the story arc between him and his father.

 

[jacobed]

I'm going to have to agree with Wolvie. I don't think you can explain it better than that. I didn't realize the pendulum lancer is the gun that Dom gets in the trailer, the thing looks sweet.

 

[Ghrunter]

Oo, finally a decent character and cool costume for me to cosplay! Its good that Anya's girly but still has the awesome armor.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I know right? My girlfriend was pretty pumped. Gears is her favourite game, so she was like "Finally, a cool chick to play as!"

 

[Tron Bonne]

The campaign tended to be short and sweet in the other two, so I'll probably rent it and beat it. As long as it keeps up the level of the other two, it'll make for a quick and fun weekend. Interesting on the female character, but she doesn't look roided out with muscles on muscles. I guess they wanted to keep some femininity

Dom's "story" if you want to call it that fell totally flat for me. There was no emotion to it precisely because of poor character development. I don't care about any of the characters or what happens to them in these games because they're not believable in the slightest sense of the word. To be honest I really don't even feel comfortable calling them characters. Caricature is probably more accurate.

Agreed, for the most part. The only part I'm not totally with you on is Dom's story; I actually felt some reaction to that, but I think it was more an unexpected shine in an otherwise generic story. I will agree that it felt somewhat forced to grab your strings, like seeing a baby penguin get clubbed or something, but it worked for me.

I will give Epic credit, though, they do seem to be at least trying to tell a decent narrative, but they obviously aren't storytellers. I see this game is being written by the novelist whose written the books, though, so maybe this one will rise above (though I haven't read any of her work or anything).

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I will give Epic credit, though, they do seem to be at least trying to tell a decent narrative, but they obviously aren't storytellers. I see this game is being written by the novelist whose written the books, though, so maybe this one will rise above (though I haven't read any of her work or anything).

I know she's not held in particularly high regard by many Star Wars fans, but I think it's due to her dislike of Jedi and pro-Mandalorian sentiments, rather than her actual writing ability. She's certainly more well liked than Kevin J. Anderson.

If I didn't already have a huge stack of books to read I'd try Aspho Fields. Hell, I might anyway, I'm no stranger to game fiction.

 

[Soapy]

one of the things that the Gears franchise really established is the story telling through dialogue on the fly, which developed characters a hell of a lot more than has been done previous.

Hal-Life did it and did it better twelve years ago.

With Doms character, we can see him go from the positive wisecracking character, to the determined steely character (I mean at one stage he essentially usurps Marcus as a lead character) culminating with the death of Maria. Then, seeing him with the beard in Gears 3 looks like he may have let go a little, and is still affected by Maria's death... thats a pretty good 3 game character arc if you ask me.

I might be willing to concede that point to you if they didn't pull that story out of thin ****ing air. In the first Gears, for all intents and purposes, Dom had no wife. She wasn't mentioned even once and now all a sudden in Gears 2 and 3 that's his driving motivation? I just didn't buy it. Also, a beard isn't character development.

I read a really good article the other day about how Marcus fenix isn't your average, typical 'badass' video game character, simply for the fact that he doesn't revel in killing or violence

One of the first things that comes to mind when I think of Marcus is from the first game when he killed several Locusts in a cutscene and then proclaimed, "That was satisfying!" And even if you ignore that line, there's still a lot of fist pumping and "**** yeah!" to be had from Marcus.

Having said that, I generally do find Marcus Fenix to be a very sullen, somber character outside of combat.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I might be willing to concede that point to you if they didn't pull that story out of thin ****ing air. In the first Gears, for all intents and purposes, Dom had no wife. She wasn't mentioned even once and now all a sudden in Gears 2 and 3 that's his driving motivation? I just didn't buy it. Also, a beard isn't character development.

She was deff mentioned in the first game.


Im with you for the most part on the story of Gears tho, it doesnt really draw me in the way others do, monsters invade planet, guys fight monsters, thats about it. Im fine with that tho. Sometimes i just want to chainsaw ppl in the face.

 

[Soapy]

She was deff mentioned in the first game.

Really? I can't remember that at all.

Im with you for the most part on the story of Gears tho, it doesnt really draw me in the way others do, monsters invade planet, guys fight monsters, thats about it. Im fine with that tho. Sometimes i just want to chainsaw ppl in the face.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the games plenty. I just couldn't care less about the characters or the plot.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Well it craps all over Halo's story as far as i'm concerned... and I don't really agree with you on Half-Life... They both drive story in completely different ways... Half Life didn't have a band of characters interacting with one another, it was the stock standard voiceless main character first person shooter game.

And I wasn't saying the beard was character development, it was just a signifier of his change. Cliffy B has already stated that Dom has been through a change, and had a rough 18 months since Maria's death. Also I think Gears 1 deserves alot more credit in the story department than it gets... If it was just a straight first person shooter, ala halo or Call of Duty (which had a TERRIBLE story) then fair enough, but its an awesome blend of warfare action and sci-fi horror, with a rag tag group of characters trying to survive. Survival stories rarely have an indepth plot, its just characters thrown into a situation, who are fighting for survival, and the story comes from how the tension is set up, and suspense and all that, which gears did fine. The story opened up more in the second one because they were no longer in that same survival situation, and i'm sure Gears 3 will open up even further now that the story isn't just focusing on the one band of characters.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well it craps all over Halo's story as far as i'm concerned... and I don't really agree with you on Half-Life... They both drive story in completely different ways... Half Life didn't have a band of characters interacting with one another, it was the stock standard voiceless main character first person shooter game.

And I wasn't saying the beard was character development, it was just a signifier of his change. Cliffy B has already stated that Dom has been through a change, and had a rough 18 months since Maria's death. Also I think Gears 1 deserves alot more credit in the story department than it gets... If it was just a straight first person shooter, ala halo or Call of Duty (which had a TERRIBLE story) then fair enough, but its an awesome blend of warfare action and sci-fi horror, with a rag tag group of characters trying to survive. Survival stories rarely have an indepth plot, its just characters thrown into a situation, who are fighting for survival, and the story comes from how the tension is set up, and suspense and all that, which gears did fine. The story opened up more in the second one because they were no longer in that same survival situation, and i'm sure Gears 3 will open up even further now that the story isn't just focusing on the one band of characters.

I think you're giving Gears a little too much credit in the story department. I can agree, it's better than COD's story, but that's not saying much, since that's a prime example of a game being about gameplay and little else. Gears present a narrative, but the characters and story are pretty forgettable and throwaway outside their 'badassery'. Like Pan and Pat said, fun games and all, but kind of stretching past that. Maybe the third will pull ahead with this new writer at the helm, we'll see. Though, like I said, at least Epic tried with the narrative instead of just slapping together or taking it out all together. I would put it a little below Halo storywise, though

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't think I am at all.... What makes Gears a much deeper game than most is it's real and tangible world... It really feels like a world with history to it, unlike Halo or any other shooter, where its just a setting for action. In the cities you can see the traces of where civilisation once lived, with side characters and elements like the stranded, or talk of refugees, fleshing out the world and the people that live in it. Halo is so detatched from all of that. You never get a taste of what earth is like, nor you ever get a feel for the characters, apart from a sudden 'important relationship' between Master Chief and Cortana that's thrown in there towards the end of the trilogy.

So far across the 2 gears games, we've learnt alot about the world beyond the main characters... The war for immulsion, gradual loss of the cities, hints of Marcus's history, the fall of the government, hints of genetic testing, the locust structure and heirarchy etc... These might not seem like big things on their own, but all these things come together and create a more realistic world. I never got a sense of that from Halo, and very few other games. Also, I think this might come down to personal taste, but I never found the characters forgettable or "throw away". Of all the co-op games out there, its the only one i've ever played where I actually feel like me and player 2 are actually inhabiting 2 completely different characters, rather than just mindless hero#1 and mindless hero #2

Think of a game with a great story, like Uncharted 1 or 2, and then think about the dialogue or characters within the actual gameplay... It very rarely related to the actual narrative, and was just characters interacting, but that still developed and fleshed out the characters, made them more real. And the characters themselves are pretty stereotypical, but it's the way their sold and portrayed throughout the whole game that makes them work. Now compare that to gears, and apart from the obvious differences in tone and style of story, you'll see that there isn't much difference on face value.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you really are stretching quite abit on that one. I can give you the post-apocalyptic world setting and stuff, but frankly, the story and characters are barely there and forgettable, if Gears gameplay had sucked I highly doubt anyone would care or remember them less than a year later.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it, because if you really think the storytelling and characterization is on the same level of something like Uncharted, well...yeah. I enjoy the games and stuff, but they are what they are. You are free to see it how you want to, though

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Read my post again. I'm talking in terms of the way they develop the story, through character interaction as character development, rather than just relying on cut scenes to drive the story.

I think you're doing the opposite of stretching (squashing perhaps) to say that story and characters are barely there, and that it's below Halo in story telling. Tell me exactly how Master Chief is a deeper character than Marcus, or Dom.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Read my post again. I'm talking in terms of the way they develop the story, through character interaction as character development, rather than just relying on cut scenes to drive the story.

I think you're doing the opposite of stretching (squashing perhaps) to say that story and characters are barely there, and that it's below Halo in story telling. Tell me exactly how Master Chief is a deeper character than Marcus, or Dom.

I read your post fine, and I think you exaggerated a lot in terms of character interactions and actual story presented, cutscene or no. And I didn't say anything about Master Chief being deeper than any of them. There about the same, very interchangeable and generic (Hell, I couldn't even remember Fenix's name not to long ago and called him Gears Guy for the longest time). I guess you can say Dom is a little above with his sidestory in the second, but not by much. I put it below Halo because I think Halo tends to have a slightly more flushed out and slightly more interesting story, but not by a whole lot or anything.

Though, like I said, I'm not going to argue with you on this. If you can't see the differences between the writing, characterization, and storytelling from Gears of War to Uncharted, well, you know, I don't know what I can really say to change that

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Look, we clearly have different tastes, so i'm not gonna bother arguing either. Again though, I never said Gears of War was on par with Uncharted in quality. This is the third time i've pointed this out, so forgive me if I seem annoyed or impatient.

I'm talking in FORMAT. Both games have their characters interacting, and swapping dialogue and banter, as a way of developing the characters. I'm not saying they're both equal in terms of writing, just that the narrative technique is the same. Also, from the fact that you couldn't remember Marcus's name, it says more to me that you personally weren't into the story, which is cool and fair enough. Personal preference and all that. I, on the other hand loved it, and I know plenty of people who feel the same way. Then again, i'm a massive sc-fi and horror fan, and Gears for me was like playing an 'Alien's' game, I loved the dynamic between the team members, right down to Baird essentially chanelling Bill Paxton. Also, i'm a writer, and I love this sort of fiction, so again, personal prefence.

I recently read some of the Gears fiction, and you'd be surprised about how many things they actually mention and make reference to in the series. All through the book, it was just like "oh wait, they mention that in gears 1" or "Ohhhh, thats what this characters relation was to that person". It wasn't the book creating it either, the author was just working from existing things in the games. The games are surprisingly deep, if you care to look.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I'm a sci-fi fan, and a hopeful writer myself. And apparently this story is 'surprising deep' if you read the supplement material. Making reference and mention to important story and character events can really only go so far. You can't spend all your time world building, and forgot about character and story building in the process. There's chatter between them, but I honestly don't remember it amounting to a whole lot that made me think much more of the characters

I didn't forgot Fenix's name because I wasn't into the story, I forgot it because he's pretty forgettable. He left no impression on me at all. None of the character's did, really. Cole only did because of the whole 'Cole Train' thing, Dom only did because of that brief moment with his wife, and had completely forgot about Baird's existence until now. Even with Bender's voice, Fenix really wasn't much more than than the usual archetype 'badass' hero. I mean what really separates him from Master Chief and Nathan Hale? Nothing, really. Honestly, I would probably forgot MC if he wasn't all over the place all the damn time, and I had forgotten Hale's name until recently when I had to look it up (around the same time as Fenix's name was pointed).

I mean, you know, it's cool if you like the story, but I don't see much more than an invasion tale with some 'badass' characters who want to save the world. Maybe the supplement material flushed it out, but I don't think such fractured storytelling is a good thing. That stuff should be for potentially important, but overall not necessary, events (Like the MGS PSP titles, for example). If you feel your story is that strong, what you need to understand and appreciate it should be in the main piece of fiction

 

[Wolvieboy17]

See, I totally respect that you felt this way about gears, the only problem I have with your points is that you're making broad sweeping statements about the game, based off your opinion. Just because you forgot the characters doesn't make them forgettable. It means 'you found them forgettable'.

My point about the supplement material wasn't that you need to read the books to get the full depth of the story, just that I didn't realise how much Epic had already fleshed out the world. So many concepts, and points of history in the Gears world have already been mentioned, so there is actually no ground work needed in the novels.

If you're a hopeful writer, I'd like to think you can differentiate the quality of narrative of Gears over a game like Halo, as well as how the formula for narrative and story is different in the game world than it is in the film or book world. Games like Halo, or Bioshock, the narrative is all about trying to show you the story from a characters perspective. They don't give the character a voice (or very little dialogue, ala MC) in an effort to try and immerse the player more, make the player feel like they are Master Chief. Alot of FPS's do this, but essentially the problem is, from a story telling point of view, the story can only be driven via either a cut scene, or just from your character listening to other people telling you what to do, or about things. Sure this might drive the story, and push the narrative forward, but it leaves alot to be desired in terms of character development.

For Gears however, its almost the opposite. Because your character has their own voice and personality, instead of the dialogue being all about story driving (e.g., characters talking about where their from, whats happened, etc) it's more about them building up their characters through the things that happen to them. This is why the Gears story works, because compare this to a film. You have about 2 1/2 hours, so everything has to be self contained, and the pace needs to keep moving, focusing on the narrative. With a game, you have upwards of 8-10 hours to let things unfold. Now, in a game like God of War or something, they could approach it like a film, just have action filled levels, then drive the story with 6-10 cut scenes. What Gears succeeds in doing is, instead of having short blocks of story, its spreads it evenly over the course of the whole game. Now Gears was always a planned trilogy, and you can see this all the way through the whole series, because even though some people might consider it sloppiness, their intention has all along to be to only reveal certain facts or truths at one stage, to answer the questions raised in the next game. This is a legitimate story telling device, which is employed in MANY different faculties (including shows like Lost, or True Blood).

I know i've gone on here heaps, but you have me interested now that you mentioned you're a hopeful writer, because I think any writer, aspiring or otherwise, should be able to analyse and pin point what works or doesn't work in any given text. It's all well and good to make sweeping statements, but if you can't actually pin point the objective over the subjective, the its a largely fruitless exercise.

 

[Tron Bonne]

EDIT: Ah, nevermind. I must not being very clear or something. Gears of War's story really isn't worth that amount of detail or time.

 

[Crosswind Ghost]

Gears is my favorite gaming franchise right there with silent hill. The atmosphere is something i don't find in any other game. This also seems it will hold a really dark theme to it, more so then the others at least. Really looking forward to this.

 

[Erundur]

saw the trailer for this just now, man i can't wait!