The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - Part 12

[DarthSkywalker]

And lets think about that for a second. The Starkiller base being destroyed did absolutely nothing to prevent the First Order from taking over again. A weapon more powerful that the Death Star gets destroyed and there's absolutely no set back. If anything they had already taken over by TFA given the timeline of the two films. It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. The First Order took out the entire Republic army before the Starkiller base was destroyed. Destroying Starkiller base kept the Resistance alive. This film shows they are still on the run, as they are far too small in their current state to stop anyone. This is the beginning of a "rebellion". Not one in the middle of its revolt.

 

[jmc]

It literally destroys what the common belief of what the Saga films are supposed to be about.

Guess what, it ain't about the Skywalkers anymore. And I think that is something the fans aren't quite ready to deal with, emotionally. I know I loved the film, and it is still settling in for me emotionally.

This is the first Star Wars film to actually have a message. And I don't think the message is one we are quite ready to accept.

You can't just ripped the floor out from under people like that for this series. It's unfair from a creative perspective yes, I can concede that. But you're talking about a series so many people love that change has to be done gracefully and with dignity. The problem isn't change, it's how it was changed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Kylo is a garbage character and villain.

When driver parody himself for SNL he literally played the sane guy.

The characters stupid beyond belief and an insult to previous sith lords.

Grievous was better than this clown.

Yeah. I don't agree at all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You can't just ripped the floor out from under people like that for this series. It's unfair from a creative perspective yes, I can concede that. But you're talking about a series so many people love that change has to be done gracefully and with dignity. The problem isn't change, it's how it was changed.

Yes. But then you can't complain about it being the same thing all over again. As I said there is clear change. Whether you like it or not is of course up to you. But hitting the drum of, "its the same" is clearly inaccurate.

 

[Mjölnir]

No, the difference is clear. We started with the Empire. The Empire was in control. It lead to a galaxy under Imperial control. The First Order was not.

The prequels did not do more its own thing then the ST in anyways. It is why when people react poorly to Rey being too powerful (unless she is a Skywalker), is funny to me. When they complain about Leia saving herself or Snoke dying here. Luke's arc.

Again just details, and paradoxically enough focusing on the details makes for a superficial view. Both trilogies almost solely focus on places where the Empire or the New Order are in control (save for some backwater planet like Ahch-To or Dagobah). We don't get to experience any place in the New Republic.

Yes it did, and to take your example the prequels actually did let us experience a galaxy under different rules, unlike the other two trilogies. The new trilogy is similar to the point where TFA could be called Episode VII: A Newer Hope.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It literally destroys what the common belief of what the Saga films are supposed to be about.

Guess what, it ain't about the Skywalkers anymore. And I think that is something the fans aren't quite ready to deal with, emotionally. I know I loved the film, and it is still settling in for me emotionally.

This is the first Star Wars film to actually have a message. And I don't think the message is one we are quite ready to accept.

I'm seriously hoping Abrams doesn't renege on Rey not being a Skywalker. This was the only genuine, great change they followed through on. I'm glad Johnson disposed of Abrams stupid mystery box set up in this movie, yet Johnson didn't follow through on what could have taken its place. I just don't get this.

 

[jmc]

Yes. But then you can't complain about it being the same thing all over again. As I said there is clear change. Whether you like it or not is of course up to you. But hitting the drum of, "its the same" is clearly inaccurate.

Admittedly the fact it becomes a return to the status quo is probably an issue for myself and I admit that, but I might be on board with a return to the status quo if the execution and character development earned it. We're basically at Man of Steel territory with this movie.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I saw it today. Very impressive!

 

[scarlet-witch]

I think Kylo's interesting, less because of his power or threat, but more because of his emotional instability and the struggle that seems to be constant with him. For me at least, I love the notion that being evil doesn't necessarily make him happy and that he's actually quite miserable doing what he's doing. He's ultimately a very self-destructive person and I think the danger he brings is not knowing what damage he's going to cause to others as he destroys himself.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Knights of Ren don't exactly fall in line behind such a visibly troubled leader. Hux knows he's underpowered compared the Force users, so if he could get the Knights to turn against Kylo...

all of this. (I wish this site had a like button)

 

[MadVillainy]

Admittedly the fact it becomes a return to the status quo is probably an issue for myself and I admit that, but I might be on board with a return to the status quo if the execution and character development earned it. We're basically at Man of Steel territory with this movie.

Nah. Nope. Nein. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No

 

[Deck Rickard]

I liked this film a lot but I really had issues with the middle of the film. Once Snoke and the rest of the First Order catch up to the Resistance, they mount a big attack and then... they just back off? It was weird how the majority of the movie was a big low speed chase through space. They continued to fire on the main vessel and the other ships but mostly just let them run out of fuel. Which I guess is okay if the sides were evenly matched but the FO had a lot more firepower and the ability to track them even at light speed. And then you have this whole subplot where Finn and Rose fly off to a completely different planet, get in a bunch of shenanigans there and then fly all the way back. I don’t know. I feel like this movie has a lot going for it but the central plot structure most of the action was built around was really flimsy.

I don’t know though; I might have missed something because I saw this in true IMAX 3D and I was really close to the screen so it was a little hard to follow stuff at certain points.

 

[Sithborg]

And lets think about that for a second. The Starkiller base being destroyed did absolutely nothing to prevent the First Order from taking over again. A weapon more powerful that the Death Star gets destroyed and there's absolutely no set back. If anything they had already taken over by TFA given the timeline of the two films. It makes no sense.

This is about the first time that a book is almost required reading. Bloodline, by Claudia Gray, with input by Rian Johnson, set up the opening crawl perfectly. Yes, it doesn't help the movie itself. But there are often a lot of things in these movies are best if you don't think about it too much. The passage of time in this movie and ESB in particular.

Still, everyone should read Claudia Gray's Star Wars books. She is great.

Thane and Sienna for Episode IX!!!

 

[TheVileOne]

So the visual novel. Why did it get so much wrong? Were they working from early drafts? Or did they have to make up details to fill up space?

 

[Sithborg]

Pablo was dealing with a coffee shortage?

 

[markjoedelonge]

Does anyone realise that

Spoiler

Finn, Poe and Rose basically destroyed more than half the Rebellion? Are we sure Finn isn't still working for the First Order?

 

[markjoedelonge]

So the visual novel. Why did it get so much wrong? Were they working from early drafts? Or did they have to make up details to fill up space?

What stuff did it get wrong?

 

[markjoedelonge]

Honestly, I went into TLJ expecting no problems, I thought I would love it like I did with TFA. That's the level of trust that Disney has earned in regards to the MCU and Star Wars films for me. But after TLJ....I am VERY curious as to how JJ is gonna handle Episode 9.

 

[TheVileOne]

What stuff did it get wrong?

To name a few things:

Spoiler

- Luke's dark robes were a symbol of him paying last rites to the Jedi Order. Nope. They were nothing more than a change of clothes. There was no ritual significance to changing into the dark robes. He changes costumes again before he goes to burn down the library.
- The book says Luke left the temple and returned to find it burned down and the students slaughtered.
- The book says Phasma is putting on a treacherous facade that Finn sees right through. There's really nothing in the film to hint or suggest at this infamous backstory of how Phasma believes in survival at all costs. Or that Finn sees through it and sees her true nature. All the hype for Phasma was nothing.

 

[Broseph44]

I adored it. Seen it twice now, and I think I loved it even more on 2nd viewing. It's genuinely rivaling ESB as my favorite Star Wars film right now.

Glad to hear you loved it FC

Kylo Ren is a fantastic villain imo. He doesn't need to be overwhelmingly powerful to be a great villain. He is complex, interesting and what prequel Anakin could have been. Should have been.

In full agreement on this.

 

[TheVileOne]

Does anyone realise that

Spoiler

Finn, Poe and Rose basically destroyed more than half the Rebellion? Are we sure Finn isn't still working for the First Order?

It's literally my biggest problem with the film. This is the worst written part of The Last Jedi. It's not as bad as the Jedi using the Clone army, but it's pretty dumb.

 

[markjoedelonge]

To name a few things:

Spoiler

- Luke's dark robes were a symbol of him paying last rites to the Jedi Order. Nope. They were nothing more than a change of clothes. There was no ritual significance to changing into the dark robes. He changes costumes again before he goes to burn down the library.
- The book says Luke left the temple and returned to find it burned down and the students slaughtered.
- The book says Phasma is putting on a treacherous facade that Finn sees right through. There's really nothing in the film to hint or suggest at this infamous backstory of how Phasma believes in survival at all costs. Or that Finn sees through it and sees her true nature. All the hype for Phasma was nothing.

Wow that's some damned good stuff there.

 

[Mjölnir]

It's literally my biggest problem with the film. This is the worst written part of The Last Jedi. It's not as bad as the Jedi using the Clone army, but it's pretty dumb.

It might have been intentional. After all you apparently get in favor with high leadership by staging mutiny against them on uninformed grounds.

 

[TheVileOne]

It might have been intentional. After all you apparently get in favor with high leadership by staging mutiny against them on uninformed grounds.

Megatron/Starscream logic? Treachery means you are doing a good job and means you should get promoted?

 

[Romannen]

Guess what, it ain't about the Skywalkers anymore. And I think that is something the fans aren't quite ready to deal with, emotionally.

Yeah, I don't want to watch a main SW saga that isn't about the Skywalkers. For, me it has always been a family drama.

 

[markjoedelonge]

It might have been intentional. After all you apparently get in favor with high leadership by staging mutiny against them on uninformed grounds.

Which could have all been avoided had Holdo just shared the plans with everyone instead of hiding them for no reason. Her hiding the plans was what set everyone on edge and resulted in mutiny.