The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

[flickchick85]

They did make a mention that the First Order were busy securing their hold in the former Republic's territories (the ones they didn't straight up destroy) across the galaxy at the moment, so that could explain the absence of the Knights of Ren in the events of this film, if they were out there doing that. I certainly hope they play a big part in Episode IX.

 

[C. Lee]

I believe Hux is in charge of the entire First Order military.

I think he also runs a Saturday morning support group for those that need a little more decaf in their coffee.

 

[Aximili86]

I hope that we see Kylo going into battle with the Knights of Ren in IX.

It's kind of seeming like the Knights aren't even force users, man. They might even just be that pirate/criminal group Ben fell in with prior to meeting Snoke (might have even been the reason he got sent to Luke in the first place, a sort of "Jedi military school" situation?

I don't think they're gonna be that big a deal, even if they come back they're likely just ne'er-do-well thug guys Ben's brought into his whole Vader-worship obsession, hence the outfits.

None of them have sabers, either. They don't even look like the high-tech melee weapons the Praetorians have, pretty sure they're just theatrical-prone street thug types.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's kind of seeming like the Knights aren't even force users, man. They might even just be that pirate/criminal group Ben fell in with prior to meeting Snoke (might have even been the reason he got sent to Luke in the first place, a sort of "Jedi military school" situation?

I don't think they're gonna be that big a deal, even if they come back they're likely just ne'er-do-well thug guys Ben's brought into his whole Vader-worship obsession, hence the outfits.

None of them have sabers, either. They don't even look like the high-tech melee weapons the Praetorians have, pretty sure they're just theatrical-prone street thug types.

Really? I think it's likely that they are the handful of students mentioned in the film that went off with Ben after the destruction of the Jedi Academy and the slaughter of the remaining students. Luke mentions this himself, about Ben going off with some students. I don't think it's a reach to assume they became his Knights. I mean... Even the name suggests a corruption of Jedi Knights into something else, mocking the very term used to signify the Jedi as both religious practitioners and warriors.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I believe Hux is in charge of the entire First Order military.

Thank you.

I hope that we see Kylo going into battle with the Knights of Ren in IX. If so, I think Rey is going to need some Force using students/allies to handle that. Which is why I am thinking we will see a nice chunk of time fly by between the two episodes. Not only does Rey need to find others to counter Kylo and the Knights but the Resistance to the First Order needs to be rebuilt and strengthened as well with numbers and resources.

Of course maybe this goes in a totally different way? Maybe the third film has Rey as the only Force user opposing Kylo and a totally dominant First Order with only a weak and ineffectual opposition, so the weight is all on Rey to finish off Kylo?

The first part of your post depends on whether Episode IX in the chapter in the story or whether Lucasfilm intends for the Resistance vs. First Order to carry on into a Future Trilogy.

As much as I love the villains in the ST and the ST itself, I do not want the core story of the franchise for the foreseeable to be another ongoing Rebel vs. Empire tale in the movies or the various other platforms.

I think if the plan to end the First Order in IX we will get to see Rey vs. Kylo and some of his Knights - there are six according to both Rey's vision and Luke's story but I suspect that Rey and her friends will encounter them the comics, books and (hopefully) animated show that fills in the gap between VIII and IX. They'll give Rey a fight with Kylo and a couple of Knights and maybe one to Finn.

Might it be better for Rey to be the sole Jedi in IX and end Kylo herself before becoming a teacher in a Future Trilogy? Perhaps early in IX she encounters a Force sensitive and the film ends with her returning to that planet or just contemplating if she is ready for the responsibility?

 

[Mask&Cape]

It's kind of seeming like the Knights aren't even force users, man. They might even just be that pirate/criminal group Ben fell in with prior to meeting Snoke (might have even been the reason he got sent to Luke in the first place, a sort of "Jedi military school" situation?

I don't think they're gonna be that big a deal, even if they come back they're likely just ne'er-do-well thug guys Ben's brought into his whole Vader-worship obsession, hence the outfits.

None of them have sabers, either. They don't even look like the high-tech melee weapons the Praetorians have, pretty sure they're just theatrical-prone street thug types.

Your theory is unlikely. While TFA only shows them in a vision, Luke confirms some of his students joined Ben Solo when he turned on Luke and the school.

I can't swear to it but I believe Luke specifies it was half the students and earlier he stated there was a dozen in total.

 

[Orba]

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - I meant to ask if the Temple Guard weapons were also powered by kyber crystals or if they were more lightsaber-type weapons.

If they cyber crystals, what causes them to be yellow?

Yup they are powered by Kyber crystals like other lightsabers but the yellow blade is rare, like Mace Windu's purple blade. There is no canon explanation so far for the reason that most kyber crystals are the colour they are apart from Red and White blades. So far all that is known is that Blue and Green are most common, Yellow and Purple are rare, and that there are variations in the shade of the colour of the blade but that could just be due to the different production techniques used in the films/TV shows and that they are supposed to all be the same. There could be other colours of blades possible but which are also rare so its no impossible for more to appear. In the old RPG and some of the old games they tried to explain that the different colours were connected to personality but it was never canon. Also back then Sith Red crystals were synthetic rather than being real kyber crystals.

I've left out the Darksaber since it is so different in shape, colour and sound to every other lightsaber that who knows if it even uses a kyber crystal or is something different.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Yup they are powered by Kyber crystals like other lightsabers but the yellow blade is rare, like Mace Windu's purple blade. There is no canon explanation so far for the reason that most kyber crystals are the colour they are apart from Red and White blades. So far all that is known is that Blue and Green are most common, Yellow and Purple are rare, and that there are variations in the shade of the colour of the blade but that could just be due to the different production techniques used in the films/TV shows and that they are supposed to all be the same. There could be other colours of blades possible but which are also rare so its no impossible for more to appear. In the old RPG and some of the old games they tried to explain that the different colours were connected to personality but it was never canon. Also back then Sith Red crystals were synthetic rather than being real kyber crystals.

I've left out the Darksaber since it is so different in shape, colour and sound to every other lightsaber that who knows if it even uses a kyber crystal or is something different.

Thank you and for the info on the real reason for red lightsabres I haven't read Ashoka yet - none of the new canon in fact - I only have the Tarkin book*.

* Does Tarkin line up correctly with the Death Star history revealed in Rogue One? I know Krennic, the Erso, etc. are not in there as Tarkin was written several years before their creation but I mean is there any contradictions in the book that makes it less canon?

 

[Roose Bolton]

All the books are written these days under stricter supervision from the Lucasfilm storygroup so that there's no real canon issues. Really it's only the TFA novelisation that's a little wonky, but they tend to take different approaches with original content novels. I don't think they want to do the whole various levels of canon thing that was the go under the Legends/Lucas era.

 

[Mask&Cape]

All the books are written these days under stricter supervision from the Lucasfilm storygroup so that there's no real canon issues. Really it's only the TFA novelisation that's a little wonky, but they tend to take different approaches with original content novels. I don't think they want to do the whole various levels of canon thing that was the go under the Legends/Lucas era.

Yes, I know they are trying to make it line up but I was asking about Tarkin because it was released not long after the the old EU was turned to Legends so it was most likely written to be part of the EU.

I just maybe the Death Star parts of the Tarkin book might not be exact fits for the history we learn in Rogue One.

At the same time Lucasfilm released Heir of the Jedi which apparently has Luke encounter the daughter of a former "pop star' who wrote a Vader parody song years earlier. The information I have on that book makes me cringe so I'm weary of the early stuff.

EDIT: I do have the TFA novelisation in audiobook. I don't do audiobooks but I knew I'd never have the time to read it but I did not get very far in that. The scenes in the book of the interactions between Rey and Unkar Plutt were just wrong on so many levels. Not because of the content but also because of the writing was just creepy and the narrator did the job a little too well. I cannot believe someone at Lucasfilm didn't take Alan Dean Foster aside during the writing of it.

 

[markjoedelonge]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdrLMXulq2k/?hl=en&taken-by=hamillhimself

Have y'all seen this? Mark says there's a deleted scene between him and Laura Dern (Holdo)? Is he kidding or is it legit? How would Luke have met Holdo?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yes, I know they are trying to make it line up but I was asking about Tarkin because it was released not long after the the old EU was turned to Legends so it was most likely written to be part of the EU.

I just maybe the Death Star parts of the Tarkin book might not be exact fits for the history we learn in Rogue One.

At the same time Lucasfilm released Heir of the Jedi which apparently has Luke encounter the daughter of a former "pop star' who wrote a Vader parody song years earlier. The information I have on that book makes me cringe so I'm weary of the early stuff.

EDIT: I do have the TFA novelisation in audiobook. I don't do audiobooks but I knew I'd never have the time to read it but I did not get very far in that. The scenes in the book of the interactions between Rey and Unkar Plutt were just wrong on so many levels. Not because of the content but also because of the writing was just creepy and the narrator did the job a little too well. I cannot believe someone at Lucasfilm didn't take Alan Dean Foster aside during the writing of it.

The Tarkin novel wasn't finished when the big switch over happened, (unlike Heir to the Jedi which was completely finished and they didn't think it needed much tinkering to fit in the canon) so the Story Group were able to keep it pretty much in line with what they had planned. Plus, it was written by James Luceno, who also did the tie-in novel for Rogue One, Catalyst. Everything he wrote is consistent with how the Empire and the Death Star have been presented in canon. Plus...like most Luceno novels it's pretty good.

 

[Orba]

Thank you and for the info on the real reason for red lightsabres I haven't read Ashoka yet - none of the new canon in fact - I only have the Tarkin book*.

* Does Tarkin line up correctly with the Death Star history revealed in Rogue One? I know Krennic, the Erso, etc. are not in there as Tarkin was written several years before their creation but I mean is there any contradictions in the book that makes it less canon?

One thing I should probably mention is that I doubt that Lucasfilm will ever give a canon reason for most lightsaber blades being the colour they are. The story group know that if they did give a reason they would then have to deal with fans telling them all of the times that their explanation failed.

Lightsaber blade have always been determined by film aesthetics rather than anything else, Luke's green blade, Mace's Purple, the Darksaber, Ahsoka's white blades. They were all that colour because someone (mainly Lucas) thought they would look cool. Even Kylo's unstable blade was due to aesthetics as it gave a visual display of his emotional instability.

 

[Marvolo]

One thing I should probably mention is that I doubt that Lucasfilm will ever give a canon reason for most lightsaber blades being the colour they are. The story group know that if they did give a reason they would then have to deal with fans telling them all of the times that their explanation failed.

Lightsaber blade have always been determined by film aesthetics rather than anything else, Luke's green blade, Mace's Purple, the Darksaber, Ahsoka's white blades. They were all that colour because someone (mainly Lucas) thought they would look cool. Even Kylo's unstable blade was due to aesthetics as it gave a visual display of his emotional instability.

Ahsoka's blades weren't an idea from Lucas. Mace's purple blade was Jackson's idea. Luke's green blade was due to necessity. His blade was supposed to be blue in ROTJ, but vfx and compositing in the early 80s made it hard to composite a blue blade into the sail barge scene. The blue blade blended into the sky and was hard to track. And I think the Darksaber was Filoni's idea and an idea that Came from the Legends EU.

As for the canon reasons for the colors, the Vader comics told us that red blades are created when a sith uses the Force to pour pain, anger, and misery into the crystal causing it to "bleed". The crystal in Vader's red saber was originally green or blue and belonged to a Jedi.

Ahsoka's book tells us that her blades' crystals were originally red and belonged to an Inquisitor. After she took the crystals they healed and turned white.

Some have speculated that Mace's blade was purple because he was a Vaapad practitioner. A type of combat and state of mind that a force user employs to walk the line between light and dark. So his blade may have been shifting between red and blue. But this explanation isn't established canon. And likely never will be.

 

[Orba]

The Darksaber was George Lucas's idea.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2010/01/28/star-wars-are-you-ready-for-the-mandalorians

Filoni: The Darksaber. That was a big deal. And again that was an idea that came straight from George. Originally what Pre Vizsla was carrying was something in the EU called a vibroblade; it's kind of an electric sword. George let me get away with it in the early phases of design and in the early shooting, but when the color came back and he was watching the lightsaber we want to have combating this vibroblade, he said there's no way that can happen; there's no way that a non-lightsaber could block a lightsaber. So he had us do away with the vibroblade in that episode really late in the game, and he created something called the Darksaber, which would be a black-bladed energy saber with a white edge. It has a crackle of electricity; it's kind of like a more ancient version of a lightsaber, and it's inferred in the episode that it's really one of a kind and that Pre Vizsla's ancestors stole it from the Jedi in the days of the Old Republic. So it's got all this neat history attached to it right away, and it sounds different.

Dave Acord and Matt Wood, we designed a special sound for it when it's fighting a lightsaber. It hums differently; it sings a little more, like a tuning fork. Also, a lightsaber if you look top down on it, it has a round blade all around; it's an energy beam. The Darksaber is flat like an actual sword, so it's thinner on one side and it's wider when you turn it. It's a really interesting thing that George created for the Mandalorian to carry in the episode.

I'm sure that Filoni has mentioned that Lucas was even the one who created the backstory to the weapon.

 

[Aximili86]

Yep. Filoni's said it sort of evolved conceptually a bit over time, but that (and the Fetts not being actual Mandalorians) was stuff from George that he kept and respected for Clone Wars/Rebels.

 

[Marvolo]

Star Wars' Mark Hamill reveals original The Force Awakens ending and why it had to be changed

In a new interview, Hamill said the ending would have seen Luke Skywalker surrounded by 'floating boulders' to demonstrate his use of the Force as Rey approached him on Ahch-To.

Of course, The Last Jedi begins with the revelation that Luke is no longer using the Force, which would have made it difficult to explain those floating boulders. (Helium?)

"When we were doing [The Force Awakens], Rian said, 'We might have boulders floating to show your Force emanating', so I was led to believe that I still had the Force and it was really strong in me," Hamill said.

Luke Skywalker in Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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"When I read [The Last Jedi] before [The Force Awakens] came out, I said 'what?!" and called JJ [Abrams] or Rian [Johnson] to say, 'Are you guys aware of this? Have you seen a cut? Is there floating boulders?'

"And they said, 'No, we caught that and we worked it all out'."


http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/st...ns-ending-luke-skywalker-the-force-last-jedi/

So JJ Abrams wasn't thinking Luke was cut off from his powers. That was all Rian's idea.

 

[Galactus123]

Why do people have problem with the Holdo's lightspeed scene? I haven't really read much about it. I think it was great and it didn't change anything we have seen in the movies. Han Solo says this in A New Hope:

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too closeto a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it."

 

[Spider-Fan]

Star Wars' Mark Hamill reveals original The Force Awakens ending and why it had to be changed



So JJ Abrams wasn't thinking Luke was cut off from his powers. That was all Rian's idea.

I like what they did better. The floating boulders in TFA would have made that ending goofier.

 

[danoyse]

Why do people have problem with the Holdo's lightspeed scene? I haven't really read much about it. I think it was great and it didn't change anything we have seen in the movies. Han Solo says this in A New Hope:

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too closeto a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it."

I saw someone having a holy meltdown while arguing with an author about the science of it on Twitter yesterday and I wondered why anyone would be that upset over a pretend spaceship.

 

[Mjölnir]

Why do people have problem with the Holdo's lightspeed scene? I haven't really read much about it. I think it was great and it didn't change anything we have seen in the movies. Han Solo says this in A New Hope:

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too closeto a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it."

Because the canon (the current canon) has stated that hyperspace travel isn't just going really, really fast, you actually enter a different kind of space and only extremely large objects, like planets, are large enough to cast mass shadows in hyperspace.

Another part is how that is now an extremely potent weapon that either would make kamikaze attacks fairly common in desperate situations, or have caused hyperdrive weapons to be created.

It's not something I have a huge problem with but it does reek of writing that didn't really take a complete look into the consequences of what was written, both for the past and future.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Eh, even if it is in another plane, to enter said plane, you need to reach a certain speed, and that will require a certain amount of physical distance, so given it was a fairly close blockade, I think it works. Besides, doing this also means killing a pilot for certain and losing a ship. That gets expensive and you can bet I am not the first to sign up for certain death.

 

[Mjölnir]

Eh, even if it is in another plane, to enter said plane, you need to reach a certain speed, and that will require a certain amount of physical distance, so given it was a fairly close blockade, I think it works. Besides, doing this also means killing a pilot for certain and losing a ship. That gets expensive and you can bet I am not the first to sign up for certain death.

Yes, I've made that explanation for the "physics" part myself. It works well enough, which is why it's not a huge problem for me.

As for the other part, making a kamikaze attack with a ship is not very expensive compared to some threats we've seen. When you have enemies that can destroy planets desperation is pretty likely to be in abundance. And if you actually weaponize it you don't even have to lose ships or people. Just put hyperdrives on bulks and have other starship carry them and put them in position, detach and activate the hyperdrive. One of the simpler ways to go about it. Seems like a whole lot smarter investment than spending money on building a huge battering ram.

 

[DerekLake]

Because the canon (the current canon) has stated that hyperspace travel isn't just going really, really fast, you actually enter a different kind of space and only extremely large objects, like planets, are large enough to cast mass shadows in hyperspace.

Another part is how that is now an extremely potent weapon that either would make kamikaze attacks fairly common in desperate situations, or have caused hyperdrive weapons to be created.

It's not something I have a huge problem with but it does reek of writing that didn't really take a complete look into the consequences of what was written, both for the past and future.

My assumption was that the ship sped through the Supremacy before it entered hyperspace, so it’s the added force (and energy) of the impartial jump that cuts through the Supremacy like a lightsaber. This is Hollywood science, so that made sense to me.

Eh, even if it is in another plane, to enter said plane, you need to reach a certain speed, and that will require a certain amount of physical distance, so given it was a fairly close blockade, I think it works. Besides, doing this also means killing a pilot for certain and losing a ship. That gets expensive and you can bet I am not the first to sign up for certain death.

Yeah, I don’t get the argument of “why wouldn’t they always do this?” Holdo was desperate, it wasn’t her original plan, and she expected to die anyway when the ship ran out of fuel. And it’s doubtful the Resistance would have the resources to build giant space torpedoes to do the same thing. More importantly, not every culture likes suicide attacks (and some consider them to be wicked acts), and I’d imagine the Resistance wouldn’t necessarily think to do such a thing. In fact, it’s something I’d actually expect from the more fanatical First Order (and it would have been nice if Hux knew what she was doing because it was a FO tactic).

The bigger issues are the fact that no one recognized that the ship was close to a planet (despite supposedly being “in the middle of knowhere”), and that Holdo's sacrifice is undercut by Rose knocking down Finn’s attempt to do the same thing.

 

[Mask&Cape]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdrLMXulq2k/?hl=en&taken-by=hamillhimself

Have y'all seen this? Mark says there's a deleted scene between him and Laura Dern (Holdo)? Is he kidding or is it legit? How would Luke have met Holdo?

I don't subscribe to any social media (except this site) but Hamill is a bit of a prankster and I have heard he is often stirring mischief on those apps.

The only way I can see the two are together in the TLJ is a flashback. Perhaps Holdo and the Nimco were the first responders to the massacre at Luke's training centre.

The Tarkin novel wasn't finished when the big switch over happened, (unlike Heir to the Jedi which was completely finished and they didn't think it needed much tinkering to fit in the canon) so the Story Group were able to keep it pretty much in line with what they had planned. Plus, it was written by James Luceno, who also did the tie-in novel for Rogue One, Catalyst. Everything he wrote is consistent with how the Empire and the Death Star have been presented in canon. Plus...like most Luceno novels it's pretty good.

Thank you.

One thing I should probably mention is that I doubt that Lucasfilm will ever give a canon reason for most lightsaber blades being the colour they are. The story group know that if they did give a reason they would then have to deal with fans telling them all of the times that their explanation failed.

Lightsaber blade have always been determined by film aesthetics rather than anything else, Luke's green blade, Mace's Purple, the Darksaber, Ahsoka's white blades. They were all that colour because someone (mainly Lucas) thought they would look cool. Even Kylo's unstable blade was due to aesthetics as it gave a visual display of his emotional instability.

Mystery is good. We don't need everything set in stone.

Why do people have problem with the Holdo's lightspeed scene? I haven't really read much about it. I think it was great and it didn't change anything we have seen in the movies. Han Solo says this in A New Hope:

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too closeto a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it."

You mean people just complaining in general or because they think it doesn't fit in with the established hypers[ace science?

I saw someone having a holy meltdown while arguing with an author about the science of it on Twitter yesterday and I wondered why anyone would be that upset over a pretend spaceship.

I'm wondering why you are surprised someone is freaking out about a pretend spaceship.

Because the canon (the current canon) has stated that hyperspace travel isn't just going really, really fast, you actually enter a different kind of space and only extremely large objects, like planets, are large enough to cast mass shadows in hyperspace.

Another part is how that is now an extremely potent weapon that either would make kamikaze attacks fairly common in desperate situations, or have caused hyperdrive weapons to be created.

It's not something I have a huge problem with but it does reek of writing that didn't really take a complete look into the consequences of what was written, both for the past and future.

The "current canon" is all over the place with lightspeed travel. The previous seven movies and TV shows have shown hyperspeed to be both instantaneuos travel across vast distances AND that it takes several minutes/days - that you need to be absolutely precise in calculations or you will die AND that it does not matter because you will survive unscathed anyway - that you need to be certain distance from planet AND that you can jump into/out of hyperspace within the atmosphere.

To be honest, I don't see how Holdo using it as a weapon goes against anything in the established science. It the first use of ightspeed travel in Star Wars, Han Solo says you collide with with objects in real space and the navcomputer plots a course around known planet and debris. Holdo flies straight into a known obstacle.