The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

DarthSkywalker said:
Being "appalled" you are barely in a film is very different then what happened with TLJ. You know what is most telling? It isn't one person. It is every major player that wasn't Adam Driver. And we know why. How many of the actors need to say it is about the characters and how they are presented before certain people admit this?

Also that makes no sense. They weren't all together in TFA.
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Point being-- John and Daisy, as well as John and Oscar obviously had a lot more screentime together in TFA. And the cast has talked a lot about loving to work with each other and how excited they were to get that chance in this film.

What's to admit? I just pointed out how Star Wars actors not being satisfied with their roles goes back to the OT, though I obviously love the new cast and for their sake hope they feel satisfied with their roles in TROS. But what they think, though I respect it, has nothing to do with my own personal opinion on the films or their characters. I mean Lucasfilm openly embraced Hamill's misgivings about his role and gave us a great documentary about it. And I love him to death, but I still think he was wrong about it and I'm glad he didn't have final say on it. Cause if he did, he would've robbed Daisy of her iconic saber-catch moment in TFA, for starters.

I also didn't find Daisy's comments to be particularly damning. I think it just shows how attached she is to Rey, and for her to talk about how painful for her to not get the type of parent figure she was looking for in Luke to me just illustrates why that was such an effective choice and once again proves that Rey does suffer and go through a lot in these films.

But, do I think the cast favors JJ and prefers working with him? 100%, I think that's clear.
 
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DarthSkywalker said:
This is like saying people disliked Snyder's take on Superman and Batman, because the characters had flaws. Luke Skywalker and FN-2187 both had flaws from the start. But the is very different from what happened to Finn (repetition of his arc) and Luke (trying to make him some sort of murderer to gain sympathy for Kylo). I mean, Rian specifically turned Poe into a sexist *******. Why?
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I never considered Poe to be sexist. I get that Boyega's complaints seem to be more because he missed working with Daisy but that has to suck for Kelly Marie Tran to hear. His words can be interpreted as "she's not good enough and I miss the other actress." But as someone pointed out, there seems to be a long history of actors having issues with Star Wars, but I'm sure plenty of people will try to make it a specific TLJ issue when it isn't.
 
BatLobsterRises said:
Point being-- John and Daisy, as well as John and Oscar obviously had a lot more screentime together in TFA. And the cast has talked a lot about loving to work with each other and how excited they were to get that chance in this film.

What's to admit? I just pointed out how Star Wars actors not being satisfied with their roles goes back to the OT, though I obviously love the new cast and for their sake hope they feel satisfied with their roles in TROS. But what they think, though I respect it, has nothing to do with my own personal opinion on the films or their characters. I mean Lucasfilm openly embraced Hamill's misgivings about his role and gave us a great documentary about it. And I love him to death, but I still think he was wrong about it and I'm glad he didn't have final say on it. Cause if he did, he would've robbed Daisy of her iconic sabre-catch moment in TFA, for starters.

I also didn't find Daisy's comments to be particularly damning. I think it just shows how attached she is to Rey, and for her to talk about how painful for her to not get the type of parent figure she was looking for in Luke to me just illustrates why that was such an effective choice and once again proves that Rey does suffer and go through a lot in these films.

But, do I think the cast favors JJ and prefers working with him? 100%, I think that's clear.
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I am pretty sure Boyega and Oscar were not together longer in TFA then they were in TLJ. If it is so, it is maybe a minute or two more. I am like 95% sure on that. Finn meets Poe and they immediately escape the Star Destroyer. They crash on the planet and then don't see each other again until after they leave Takodana. They spend a few scenes together on the base, most of that time is dedicated to the war room, and then separate from one another again. They do not see each other again for the rest of the film. In TLJ they have their first scene together when Finn wakes up. They hang out together right before the First Order attacks. They have their scene together where they make their plan and talk to Maz. They meet back up on Crait, and are together in the base and for the attack on the First Order. Which I assume took a good while to film, and thus would have probably meant set time together was even more in TLJ.

The level of toxcity and issues TLJ brought to every corner of Star Wars. It infected LF, the actors and the fanbase. It gave TLJ the worst legs in Star Wars history, and turned a world very much hyped for Star Wars, into one apparently just wanting the sequel trilogy to end so they can, "move on".

Listen to Daisy and Rian talk about Reylo, and then get back to me on that one.
 
scarlet-witch said:
I never considered Poe to be sexist. I get that Boyega's complaints seem to be more because he missed working with Daisy but that has to suck for Kelly Marie Tran to hear. His words can be interpreted as "she's not good enough and I miss the other actress." But as someone pointed out, there seems to be a long history of actors having issues with Star Wars, but I'm sure plenty of people will try to make it a specific TLJ issue when it isn't.
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That was the writer's intent in this case.
“[Poe] is a hotshot pilot, so you ground his X-wing and you face him with the question of bravado vs. true heroism, which is leadership,” explained Johnson. “I started watching World War II movies, because you see that type of relationship reflected a lot in films like ’Twelve O’Clock High’ or ‘The Dawn Patrol.’ The fact that it’s a woman, and not only that, but it’s a woman who isn’t in a general’s outfit but has a real feminine energy, seemed like the toughest thing that Poe could come up against.”

How Rian Johnson made heroism inclusive in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi'
 
scarlet-witch said:
I never considered Poe to be sexist. I get that Boyega's complaints seem to be more because he missed working with Daisy but that has to suck for Kelly Marie Tran to hear. His words can be interpreted as "she's not good enough and I miss the other actress." But as someone pointed out, there seems to be a long history of actors having issues with Star Wars, but I'm sure plenty of people will try to make it a specific TLJ issue when it isn't.
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Rian literally said he did. That he wrote Poe as having an issue with female authority figures. The guy whose idols are his mother and Leia, strong, military women, doesn't respect the chain of command if a woman is the leader.He also said Oscar didn't know how to play Poe, which makes sense when you consider that.

We have had three sequel trilogy films. Only one of these have gotten this response from people. GoT season 8 beckons.
 
Oh noes, some actors didn't have a grand old time making a picture. That proves it! That proves....what exactly? Some of the best films ever were plagued by unhappy actors. I guess Blade runner is whack now that Harrison Ford had a miserable time making it. I guess the Shining is bad news. Alfred Hitchcock's entire oeuvre? Forget it.

I mean, unhappy dullards they call actors thought the spark of an idea they cobbled together was genius before being dismissed by an actual writer? This is the silver bullet!
 
DarthSkywalker said:
We have had three sequel trilogy films. Only one of these have gotten this response from people. GoT season 8 beckons.
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We've only had two, until next week. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Even if TLJ was universally beloved, wrapping up 9 films in a satisfying way for an extremely demanding fanbase would be aridiculously hard task, so I'm bracing for some level of backlash. But ultimately, I'm growing kind of numb to it. I mean, we remember the prequels. The only reason I think the discussion around TLJ and the ST has been more contentious than that is because of the political undertones that seem to creep into EVERY online discourse at this moment in time. It will certainly be interesting to look back and reflect with some distance.

On that note, I highly recommend this video essay that examines how opinions have flip flopped on SW films over the years:





Also, good call on Poe and Finn's screentime. Perhaps it's a testament to their on-screen chemistry in TFA that it feels like they had more time than they did when you really think about it.
 
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DarthSkywalker said:
Rian literally said he did. That he wrote Poe as having an issue with female authority figures. The guy whose idols are his mother and Leia, strong, military women, doesn't respect the chain of command if a woman is the leader.He also said Oscar didn't know how to play Poe, which makes sense when you consider that.

We have had three sequel trilogy films. Only one of these have gotten this response from people. GoT season 8 beckons.
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Also, where the hell is Rey's arc in TLJ? The biggest problem is that the protagonist of the film has no story, no arc. She doesn't really learn anything. She doesn't experience any real growth. Because Rian took away her story and gave it to Kylo. Crap just happens to her. With the exception of Kylo, it feels like the main characters are exactly where they were at the end of TFA. I think we are lacking that feeling of culmination going into this that one should get from the final installment of a Star Wars trilogy.
 
BatLobsterRises said:
We've only had two, until next week. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Even if TLJ was universally beloved, wrapping up 9 films in a satisfying way for an extremely demanding fanbase would be aridiculously hard task, so I'm bracing for some level of backlash. But ultimately, I'm growing kind of numb to it. I mean, we remember the prequels. The only reason I think the discussion around TLJ and the ST has been more contentious than that is because of the political undertones that seem to creep into EVERY online discourse at this moment in time. It will certainly be interesting to look back and reflect with some distance.

On that note, I highly recommend this video essay that examines how opinions have flip flopped on SW films over the years:





Also, good call on Poe and Finn's screentime. Perhaps it's a testament to their on-screen chemistry in TFA that it feels like they had more time than they did when you really think about it.
Click to expand...

It's the difference between meaningful character interaction and killing time because you are suppose to have these characters in the movie, but don't know what to do with them. Never forget, Rian thought Finn and Poe were too similar to hang out in TLJ.
 
Seems like the cast is done doing talk shows other than in UK, that was a quiet press tour

And with them already voicing disappointment we are in for some real, real shade throwing in few months
 
Confirmed the Knights of Ren can use the Force.

"Soule was inspired by motorcycle gangs, classic Westerns, and Samurai tales as he dramatized some of the lore behind the masked marauders. “They can all use the Force, the dark side of the Force, to varying degrees,” he reveals. “They’re not as powerful as a Jedi or a Sith, but they use it when they fight…. They have some sort of a code, like a motorcycle gang, but it’s not elaborate. They’re flexible.” Like all good galactic thugs and scoundrels, they’re in it for themselves. “Mostly they’re just kind of out to live their lives the way they want to live them and take what the galaxy will give them and eat what the dark side sends,” Soule says.




About Ben Solo's turn to the dark side:

“You want it to feel like the really big mythological moments feel from Star Wars whether it’s the Mustafar battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan or the throne room battle at the end of Jedi,” Soule says. “These are the moments where the fate of the Force, the fate of the galaxy, and the balance of the Force, all these things are on the scales being weighed. And this book, if we do it right, should be building and building and building to a moment where Ben makes a choice and you understand why he does it and you realize he had no choice, even though he thinks he’s making one. That’s what the story’s supposed to be. That’s what happened to Anakin. If we do our job right, it will feel utterly inevitable and also utterly preventable, which is the tragedy of the whole story.”


The Creators of Marvel’s Star Wars: The Rise of Kylo Ren on Ben Solo’s Turn | StarWars.com
 
Some people begun to hate the ST with TFA.
And it is just a movie, the amount of hate is not normal and it is related with our polarised and terrible times.
 
Exclusive Australian poster made by Hugh Fleming:

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That Australian poster is gorgeous.

DarthSkywalker said:
You know what man, I don't care anymore. We are 10 days from IX, and we both love Star Wars. So bro, as a fellow Star Wars fan, I just want to say I hope you enjoy the hell out of IX.
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Hell yeah buddy. I hope you do too!

Next. Week. Mother of God.
 
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BatLobsterRises said:
We've only had two, until next week. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Even if TLJ was universally beloved, wrapping up 9 films in a satisfying way for an extremely demanding fanbase would be aridiculously hard task, so I'm bracing for some level of backlash. But ultimately, I'm growing kind of numb to it. I mean, we remember the prequels. The only reason I think the discussion around TLJ and the ST has been more contentious than that is because of the political undertones that seem to creep into EVERY online discourse at this moment in time. It will certainly be interesting to look back and reflect with some distance.
Click to expand...

Well I actualy don't see these types of divisive fan battles as anything new really. I think fanbases have always tended to be demanding. I'd say there are 3 things which makes the discourse worse now:

1) We're in the age of social media in which most of the discourse is toxic in general. SW is just smaller example of a larger issue online. In the days of the OT and PT, you didn't have social media and fans across the world weren't really able to communicate with each other in the days before wi-fi.

You had the internet during the Prequels, but it wasn't what it is now. Now everyone has a voice and not everyone will be polite to put it mildly.

2) The media and the studios really didn't give a damn about backlash from diehard fandoms back in the day. Now they respond to fandom in a way they really didn't a generation ago.

The press would report on things like the backlash to Keaton's casting , but his casting was controversial with basically everyone, the press included.

Other than that though, journalists thought this was "kids stuff" and really didn't care what fans at conventions or elsewhere really thought. Now the press writes articles online about "Toxic fans" as opposed to not even caring which, is how it used to be.

Studios used to care more about the GA and their bottom line than vocal fans who used to write letters to make their opinions heard. Now studios have a social media stake in spreading the word , they have a much closer relationship with the fan community than even during the early 00s.

3) We live in political and socially divisive and polarizing times unlike the 80s and most of the 1990s. We're a bit more akin to the 1960s and early 1970s than to the 80s and the 90s which were pretty mellow by comparison. As a result, as in the 60s in 70s, that angst, divisions, anxiety ,etc. is gonna seep into the discourse and the art. Even into Star Wars, Marvel, and DC.
 
Unrelated to Ep. IX specifically, but I have to recommend all the Star Wars episodes of The Soundtrack Show podcast, if you're looking for something 1000% removed from all Star Wars toxicity to ease your soul as we enter the final countdown for the movie. These have made my work commutes the past few weeks a delight. The Soundtrack Show

David W. Collins has done a lot of work for Lucasfilm in varying capacities including as a composer, and his insights into John Williams' work, what the themes are doing and how they all build upon each other is SO good. Whether you're a music geek or not, he breaks it all down in a really engaging and easy to follow way. It legitimately makes me re-fall in love with Star Wars and see/hear it in a new way. And makes me all the more excited to hear the conclusion of this 9 part symphony.

So far he's done Star Wars, Empire and part 1 of ROTJ, but he'll he going through the entire saga eventually. He had previously done the prequels and TFA as part of a podcast series with Rebel Force Radio, but he's redoing it all on his own...this time minus the annoying RFR guy.
 
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