The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Donner]

He was very much a Vader clone and having him redeemed made him even more so.

No his story was the opposite. Vader fell to the dark side to save a loved one, Ben Solo fell because of loved ones. Although love is what saved them both. But Anakin's childhood was a hell of a lot different than Ben's.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

No his story was the opposite. Vader fell to the dark side to save a loved one, Ben Solo fell because of loved ones. Although love is what saved them both. But Anakin's childhood was a hell of a lot different than Ben's.

Again the stuff you say about Ben's childhood wasn't in the movies so apart from him having less of a reason to fall to the dark side he is a lot like Vader, he even actively tries to be like Vader.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't know where the line is between toxic masculinity and thinking you know better than your boss. Going in, Poe really had no character beyond being the ace pilot archetype, so I think exploring the drawbacks of being cocksure makes sense. Poe disregards Leia's order to retreat because he had a shot at a key target and views the world that way. Poe distrusts Holdo because she is cagey and seems reluctant to act, a consequence of his reputation tanking his credibility. I don't think it is sexist behavior. These people being female are incidental to the conflict Poe would have behaved the same way with male superiors.

Outside of the film itself, I believe I have seen a few RJ quotes on the subject but nothing about Poe being a misogynist. They're mostly about how Holdo was conceived to oppose Poe in every way to heighten their conflict. A lot about 'female energy' and the like, quotes that I think are somewhat taken out of context to suggest Poe's greatest weakness is the woman, when it's more about Holdo being designed as the antithesis of the flyboy.

I may be misremembering though. I've read a lot of takes on TLJ by now, as I'm sure we all have.

Personally, what appealed to me with Poe in the first place was that he felt like the archetype without the toxicity attached to it. It was different in a way that didn't draw attention to itself and instead just showed through in his personality through his scenes with Finn, and the way he treated Leia with respect. It's what made him frustrating to me in Last Jedi, Holdo's written in a weird way to try and make it half-understandable, like it doesn't want to commit to either her being a poor leader or him just being awful, but wants to do both without addressing either. It's... weird and rather disappointing. Especially when taking into account the EU, where I can say I quite enjoyed him in his comic and I thought it was pleasantly refreshing to make his mother his hero that made him decide to be a pilot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No his story was the opposite. Vader fell to the dark side to save a loved one, Ben Solo fell because of loved ones. Although love is what saved them both. But Anakin's childhood was a hell of a lot different than Ben's.

Anakin actually had a tough childhood.

And no, Anakin fell to the dark side because of power. It's the same for Ben. Saying Anakin fell to the dark side because of Padme somehow makes her responsible for Anakin's actions, which is just not true. Anakin fell because he wanted power. Power to stop death, power to make things as he wanted them to be. Which is why he chokes Padme and then starts telling Obi-Wan about his new Empire. Because his concern isn't them, it's his own feelings. His rage reveals him for who he is. A monster. It mirrors Kylo's BS in the throne room so hard, it should have a Vader symbol behind it.

 

[Sian]

I don't quite get the Rey's dad being a clone of Palpatine. It makes no sense.

It feels like an afterthought because no one wanted to picture Palps having sex

Oh no....now I have this picture in my mind....

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Again the stuff you say about Ben's childhood wasn't in the movies so apart from him having less of a reason to fall to the dark side he is a lot like Vader, he even actively tries to be like Vader.

Ben's awful childhood was that he was raised by his mother, father, and uncle Chewie. When he started showing signs of darkness and wanted to train in the ways of the Force, he was sent to his uncle a Jedi... in his 20s. This is the horrible tale of the youth of Ben Solo.

By the way, anyone else still find it hilarious that Rian decided he needed like fully grown Adam Driver in the "flashback" scenes in TLJ? Because Kylo's 30 in TFA/TLJ. I think Rian set the massacre 5 years before. That makes him 25 during the scene with Luke... that poor child.

 

[Donner]

Again the stuff you say about Ben's childhood wasn't in the movies so apart from him having less of a reason to fall to the dark side he is a lot like Vader, he even actively tries to be like Vader.

It's still in the supplementary materials. I guess we'll never move past this because we obviously see the books and comics very differently.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Daisy Ridley: "It was probably nice for Mark to be more like the Luke of old. Which I think J.J. felt like he really wanted that. It was nice to feel - and even in the scene - to feel really comforted that like 'Luke Skywalker is here.'" (April 9, 2020)

J. J. Abrams: “When I read [Rian Johnson’s] first draft, it made me laugh, because I saw that was his take and his voice. I got to watch cuts of the movie as he was working on it, as an audience member. And I appreciated the choices he made as a filmmaker that would probably be very different from the choices that I would have made. Just as he would have made different choices if he had made Episode VII.” “I felt the biggest surprise was how dark Luke was [in Star Wars: The Last Jedi]. That was the thing that I thought: ‘Oh, that was unexpected.’ And that’s the thing The Last Jedi undeniably succeeds at, which is constant subversion of expectation. The number of things that happened in that movie that aren’t the thing you think is going to happen is pretty fun.” (November 21, 2019)

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's still in the supplementary materials. I guess we'll never move past this because we obviously see the books and comics very differently.

Anakin Skywalker grew up a slave, was forced to leave his mother at 9 to try and have a better life, and at the age of 19, watched his mother die after she had been beaten and tortured by Tusken Raiders.

Ben Solo had working parents.

Ben Solo

 

[Man in the Suit]

I don't like how Rey Palpatine is handle, and I think a lot of that is with how hacked up IX is plus VIII existence, but what is wrong with the concept? Rian destroyed the original intention of the Skywalker saga, by making Rey not a Skywalker. Fine. But what out of hand is wrong with Rey as a Palpatine?

Because it's terrible decision when building on the first two films in this trilogy. Abrams, Terrio, and Lucasfilm/Disney didn't have to do it. But Abrams wanted to make his own VIII and do one of the dumbest reveals in history. He could've went anywhere, but went with Palpatine's return (which kinda negates ROTJ's ending). Rian Johnson's decision to make Rey a "nobody" is a great choice when the villain is a fascist obsessed with lineage. Abrams could've expanded on that, but he didn't because he's creatively bankrupt.

 

[Sian]

It's still in the supplementary materials. I guess we'll never move past this because we obviously see the books and comics very differently.

Electra....
Don't engage. I learned that lesson a while ago. It's not worth it.

 

[Donner]

Electra....
Don't engage. I learned that lesson a while ago. It's not worth it.

I can't imagine what these boards were like after TLJ. Yikes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because it's terrible decision when building on the first two films in this trilogy. Abrams, Terrio, and Lucasfilm/Disney didn't have to do it. But Abrams wanted to make his own VIII and do one of the dumbest reveals in history. He could've went anywhere, but went with Palpatine's return (which kinda negates ROTJ's ending). Rian Johnson's decision to make Rey a "nobody" is a great choice when the villain is a fascist obsessed with lineage. Abrams could've expanded on that, but he didn't because he's creatively bankrupt.

TLJ was a terrible idea building off of TFA. This was the Skywalker saga. The main character should have been a Skywalker. Rian and Kennedy wanting Rey and Kylo to make out negated that.

Rey nobody is inherently flawed when you are forcing Rey into fighting over a legacy, you give her no attachment to when you kill of Luke after he treated her poorly and you know Leia can't properly be in the sequel. That is what Rian made. That was the "great idea". Rey Palpatine is a clear compromise, to make up for the ridiculous "Rey is drawn to the dark side" BS, while avoiding the obvious answer to that. Like Kylo, she is a Skywalker, who is drawn in both directions. Unlike Kylo, even growing up alone, she choose the light. Even with all the advantages, Kylo chose the dark.

Also why do we ignore that Kennedy put her hand on the scale for both of JJ's movies, but not Rian's, which actually did fracture the fanbase?

 

[BatLobster]

TLJ was a terrible idea building off of TFA. This was the Skywalker saga. The main character should have been a Skywalker. Rian and Kennedy wanting Rey and Kylo to make out negated that.

Rey nobody is inherently flawed when you are forcing Rey into fighting over a legacy, you give her no attachment to when you kill of Luke after he treated her poorly and you know Leia can't properly be in the sequel. That is what Rian made. That was the "great idea". Rey Palpatine is a clear compromise, to make up for the ridiculous "Rey is drawn to the dark side" BS, while avoiding the obvious answer to that. Like Kylo, she is a Skywalker, who is drawn in both directions. Unlike Kylo, even growing up alone, she choose the light. Even with all the advantages, Kylo chose the dark.

I think that's a bit unfair to throw at Rian's feet, when Carrie passed away after TLJ was already in post. It was certainly not a 'known' that Leia can't properly be in the sequel when TLJ was being made. I still think Carrie's unexpected death had way more of an impact on the quality of IX than people seem to want to talk about.

If the implication is they should've changed Luke's death because of Carrie's real life death-- let's not forget they also had all the room in the world to utilize Force Ghost Luke a lot more than they did in IX. More of an exploration of the Force spirit realm. That's what I was hoping for, I really thought we'd see him haunting Kylo especially after his "see ya around, kid"-- but we got more of a cameo instead. For me Luke's arc in TLJ, including his death- was probably the most emotionally impactful aspect of this new trilogy so I don't think it was worth sacrificing.

At the end of the day, if it was 100% set in stone in JJ's heart that Rey was Rey Skywalker, the lost daughter of Han and Leia, and he chose to come back to tell the story of Rey Palpatine who chooses to be Rey Skywalker (which I personally love, on paper)-- that's on him. He did not have to touch Star Wars again if he felt that Kennedy/Rian had screwed over his vision and original intention beyond repair. He is not with 0 accountability in this, that's all I'm saying. He did make 2 of these films, interference or not. Most big studio films mean you have to deal with some creative friction and studio notes.

I am all for being fair and acknowledging that he was given an enormously tough task in following up some creative choices he wasn't fully behind, not to mention ending the most beloved saga of all-time-- and I don't even hate the results, there's a lot I do like in IX. And I admire the guts it took to take a crack at it, knowing full well what he was getting into. But I do think it's a bit unprofessional for his editors to be complaining about it and kicking up controversy. As if JJ was just given some unfair homework assignment and dragged against his will. No, he chose to come back and a earned a handsome paycheck to work on what is essentially THE dream project. He got to put his stamp on the ending to this 42 year old story. That all counts for something.

 

[Marvolo]

TLJ was a terrible idea building off of TFA. This was the Skywalker saga. The main character should have been a Skywalker. Rian and Kennedy wanting Rey and Kylo to make out negated that.

Rey nobody is inherently flawed when you are forcing Rey into fighting over a legacy, you give her no attachment to when you kill of Luke after he treated her poorly and you know Leia can't properly be in the sequel. That is what Rian made. That was the "great idea". Rey Palpatine is a clear compromise, to make up for the ridiculous "Rey is drawn to the dark side" BS, while avoiding the obvious answer to that. Like Kylo, she is a Skywalker, who is drawn in both directions. Unlike Kylo, even growing up alone, she choose the light. Even with all the advantages, Kylo chose the dark.

Also why do we ignore that Kennedy put her hand on the scale for both of JJ's movies, but not Rian's, which actually did fracture the fanbase?

This was supposed to be a passing of the torch trilogy. From the Skywalkers to a new generation and hero. It was only after TLJ that Disney and JJ tried to warp Episode 9 and the trilogy to be a conclusion to the whole saga rather than just an end to the trilogy. I still think they only did this because they didnt have a spine and thought if they turned 9 into a saga conclusion it would give the film more prestige, aid the marketing, and put more butts in theater seats.

Rey Nobody was working fine for the trilogy until ROS and JJ **** all over it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ben's awful childhood was that he was raised by his mother, father, and uncle Chewie. When he started showing signs of darkness and wanted to train in the ways of the Force, he was sent to his uncle a Jedi... in his 20s. This is the horrible tale of the youth of Ben Solo.

By the way, anyone else still find it hilarious that Rian decided he needed like fully grown Adam Driver in the "flashback" scenes in TLJ? Because Kylo's 30 in TFA/TLJ. I think Rian set the massacre 5 years before. That makes him 25 during the scene with Luke... that poor child.

Wow, sounds like Ben had a real tough upbringing

It's still in the supplementary materials. I guess we'll never move past this because we obviously see the books and comics very differently.

It's not that we see the comics and books differently necessarily. It's that 99% of the people who saw these movies won't read them, including me. And we shouldn't have to read them to get important parts of the story. And I mean this for ANY franchise, not just Star Wars. So based on what we saw in the movies, Ben had a fine upbringing until what happened with Luke. And even then that shouldn't have been enough to turn him into a mass murderer.

 

[Donner]

Wow, sounds like Ben had a real tough upbringing



It's not that we see the comics and books differently necessarily. It's that 99% of the people who saw these movies won't read them, including me. And we shouldn't have to read them to get important parts of the story. And I mean this for ANY franchise, not just Star Wars. So based on what we saw in the movies, Ben had a fine upbringing until what happened with Luke. And even then that shouldn't have been enough to turn him into a mass murderer.

I get that you shouldn't HAVE to read them, but they are part of the overall story and that doesn't change.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I get that you shouldn't HAVE to read them, but they are part of the overall story and that doesn't change.

But that's my point, to the majority of people they aren't part of story as most of them won't even know they exist, and never will. Anything can be put in a book and said to be canonical, doesn't mean the vast majority of people will read it or even learn of its existence. I read comics, and am still not interested in reading these ones.

 

[Donner]

But that's my point, to the majority of people they aren't part of story as most of them won't even know they exist, and never will. Anything can be put in a book and said to be canonical, doesn't mean the vast majority of people will read it or even learn of its existence. I read comics, and am still not interested in reading these ones.

That's on you, though. If people want more information they can easily find it.

There's a reason why the Rise of Kylo Ren sold out a couple times over. People were interested.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's on you, though. If people want more information they can easily find it.

There's a reason why the Rise of Kylo Ren sold out a couple times over. People were interested.

And again, the vast majority won't bother, even if they do learn they exist. So to 99% of people, they aren't canon because they don't exist. And having to read comics to get important info about the story is most definitely NOT on me.

 

[Donner]

And again, the vast majority won't bother, even if they do learn they exist. So to 99% of people, they aren't canon because they don't exist. And having to read comics to get important info about the story is most definitely NOT on me.

You don't know that the majority don't bother, though. Both the Rise of Skywalker novel and the Rise of Kylo Ren were wildly successful. Your 99% is a made up number.

They should have done a better job of fleshing out the characters in the movies, but the information is there in the books and comics. Which doesn't excuse crappy writing, but the point is that people know where to find info.

 

[Schlosser85]

I love Elijah Wood

Elijah Wood is really all of us right now and it's awesome.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You don't know that the majority don't bother, though. Both the Rise of Skywalker novel and the Rise of Kylo Ren were wildly successful. Your 99% is a made up number.

They should have done a better job of fleshing out the characters in the movies, but the information is there in the books and comics. Which doesn't excuse crappy writing, but the point is that people know where to find info.

These movies are mainly made for kids, with families struggling to make ends meet right now, do you expect them to buy their kids expensive comics to fill in some story?

It's not gonna happen. 99% is a made up number, but the vast majority of people who watched these movies have never and will never read these books and comics. So to the majority, they aren't canon because they don't exist.

I only learned of these comics on this thread, because I am movie geek who posts on a message board. The general audience, who make the most money for these movies, don't do those things.

 

[Donner]

These movies are mainly made for kids, with families struggling to make ends meet right now, do you expect them to buy their kids expensive comics to fill in some story?

It's not gonna happen. 99% is a made up number, but the vast majority of people who watched these movies have never and will never read these books and comics. So to the majority, they aren't canon because they don't exist.

I only learned of these comics on this thread, because I am movie geek who posts on a message board. The general audience, who make the most money for these movies, don't do those things.

Expensive comics? That's a stretch of an excuse. You're making generalizations based on your own experience, which doesn't equate to evidence.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Expensive comics? That's a stretch of an excuse. You're making generalizations based on your own experience, which doesn't equate to evidence.

Comics are expensive, I know because I read them. With the way the world is at the moment many people are out of jobs and struggling to support their family. They won't be buying Star Wars comics because they are canon.