Ghost Rider 2 - reboot with Dan Ketch?

[HAMACKIE]

P.S.-- As I have stated elsewhere... I always liked Blaze... wanted him in the new series... and as soon as I could I brought him back.

Howard

 

[Riding Ghost]

I'm not sure if you are refering to me or not but I'm responding because I know that I have said that.
Your point is well taken and whenever I said it, I was refering to Marvel not to you. Granted years ago when I said it I would have lumped you into it along with them, but I have read what you've posted here and definately realize you are not to blame for it not being the original GR, in fact knowing what I know now, I'm thankful you were there to guide GR as much as they would allow you. I really wish you could've stayed (based on what you've posted previously) and fleshed out the GR mythos instead of it being left to ivan v. I really feel as though he bastardized GR beyond recognition. And that Vol.2 finale that recently came out that he did....dreadful....IMHO

 

[DoomRulz]

Wow, Howard Mackie himself! Great pleasure to meet you sir!

Tell me, if you were invited to do so, would you serve as a script writer on the next Ghost Rider movie? Let's say it is a Dan Ketch movie.

 

[HAMACKIE]

<<Tell me, if you were invited to do so, would you serve as a script writer on the next Ghost Rider movie? Let's say it is a Dan Ketch movie.>>

First and foremost, I am a big fan of the character of GHost Rider(in all incarnations), so I would welcome the opportunity to work with him again on the screen, in comics, etc... but the phone ain't ringing off the hook.

Howard

 

[HAMACKIE]

Sorry that it takes mwe so long to get around to posting answers, but I am still having trouble logging on or the site allowing me to post. I have no idea why. Meanwhile, while it seems that I can post, I have a question for the board... has anyone seen the DVD extended edition? And did the footage they shot of me make it to the screen? I haven't picked it up yet and I was wondering.

Thanks,

Howard

 

[Canadian Rider]

Hi Howard.

I am picking up the extended version tonight and I will let you know.

Thanks for defending the truth about Dan and illuminating the shadowy world of comics for us.

I am excited that I am moving into a new house that will allow me to access your great work on a daily basis.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Hey Howard!

Yes your interview is on the documentary and without it, I would have NO REASON to buy this DVD.

The extended cut isn't even worth watching, its the documentary and interview with you, Texeira, Clayton Crain that is really worth it.

I liked how you mentioned on there where you got the name for Dan Ketch (Jack Ketch - Executioner). I've always wondered where you came up with that name!

It also mentions on your documentary that you wanted Johnny Blaze as the Ghost Rider and how the artistic and even physical look of Ghost Rider and his bike was influenced by the Japanese "Ninja Craze" of the early 90s. That explains why Deathwatch had Red Ninjas!

I wrote a letter to Marvel to beg you to come back as a writer, if not as a miniseries, and I think I need to rewrite and send again.

That or make it into a more formal petition and have people sign it.

 

[Riding Ghost]

True, the comic docu was the best part of the extras imo

 

[DoomRulz]

So back to the topic at hand...

If a reboot isn't done, and Johnny Blaze is used once more, who/what do you guys see being done?

 

[OddBob]

Continue with Blaze, with or without Cage. No rebooting. Onwards and upwards.

 

[CaptainClown]

Just make it like another Ghost Rider. Someone else who sold his soul, like a guy in a biker gang who got killed by his own crew and have that typical vendetta (crow) story.

 

[DoomRulz]

Just make it like another Ghost Rider. Someone else who sold his soul, like a guy in a biker gang who got killed by his own crew and have that typical vendetta (crow) story.

How do you mean, exactly?

 

[CaptainClown]

Where the concept of the ghostrider is the only thing that passes on. The characters are different. The setting is different and the story is different.

 

[DoomRulz]

Where the concept of the ghostrider is the only thing that passes on. The characters are different. The setting is different and the story is different.

Sounds good, but then it's not Ghost Rider. At least, not the Riders we all know and love.

 

[CaptainClown]

I say that so it gives viewers something new. So people aren't saying I already saw the story of Johnny Blaze and it does not intrigue me.

 

[DoomRulz]

I say that so it gives viewers something new. So people aren't saying I already saw the story of Johnny Blaze and it does not intrigue me.

That's why I'm suggesting do a Dan Ketch film. It's a totally new character, and this way the first film can be avoided almost completely. If purist cry foul, then tell Blaze's story at the beginning of the film or something, but don't make him the star of the film.

 

[DoomRulz]

<<Tell me, if you were invited to do so, would you serve as a script writer on the next Ghost Rider movie? Let's say it is a Dan Ketch movie.>>

First and foremost, I am a big fan of the character of GHost Rider(in all incarnations), so I would welcome the opportunity to work with him again on the screen, in comics, etc... but the phone ain't ringing off the hook.

Howard

I only suggested if it's a DK movie b/c you wrote the series (at least most it) so you know how to best bring the character to life.

 

[Cain Estrell]

Hmmm... I would cherish for a reboot, but not with Dan Ketch! I mean, no offense to his fans ('specially Doomrulz), but as much as I preferred Noble Kale than Zarathos- in looks and personality, I've always felt that HE was the real main character of the series, NOT Dan. IMHO, Dan always struck me as this really annoying kid who's too naive and too much of a wimp to fit the badass character of Ghost Rider- He may have shown some fits of courage every now and then, but in the end, (especially during the part where he kept complaining about "I can't take it anymore" to Naomi) really got him on my nerves. He's no badass, at all- too young for the dark world he lives in. I also thought that him "accidently" gaining Kale's powers by simply coming upon his bike was too cheap for an intro. Johnny's deal with Mephisto was, for me, a more clever introduction. Yeah, I'd love the movie if it were to follow Noble Kale's series, but I want his host to be Johnny! I'm not just saying this because I grew up in the 70's-80's era, but overall, as a grown up, I prefer the older, more mature Blaze. He's got more guts and attitude that Dan CLEARLY lacked (when I read his "Blaze" miniseries, it clearly shows he can handle himself more than Dan ever did, even without GR's power)- plus he's got the rugged, good looks a true badass biker should possess (I'm talking 'bout the comics). Ghost Rider's host should be an adult, mature character- someone who can get to grips with his situations a lot quicker. Having him bonded to a weak, naive teenager just doesn't mix well, for me. Why? I highly doubt a kid like Dan is already capable of handling the grim reality of his world in real life. Kids his age are too susceptible to trauma from experiencing day-to-day the dark, twisted events of Ghost Rider's path. It's way unrealistic that they actually made him hold out THAT long. Johnny's age and current state of mind is more capable of staying sane in such an evil atmosphere.

I agree with the other posters that the movies don't have to follow closely with the comicbooks' convoluted story- just have the proper look, characters, & feel -then reimagine the setting with a clearer, easier to understand plotline. It would also help Marvel get better ideas for improving GR's character- like what happened to Blade - when the films reinvented him to become more appealing than what he was before.

If any of you guys would actually take the time to read my long post, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!^_^ I'm new here, 'kay?

 

[DoomRulz]

Hmmm... I would cherish for a reboot, but not with Dan Ketch! I mean, no offense to his fans ('specially Doomrulz), but as much as I preferred Noble Kale than Zarathos- in looks and personality, I've always felt that HE was the real main character of the series, NOT Dan. IMHO, Dan always struck me as this really annoying kid who's too naive and too much of a wimp to fit the badass character of Ghost Rider- He may have shown some fits of courage every now and then, but in the end, (especially during the part where he kept complaining about "I can't take it anymore" to Naomi) really got him on my nerves. He's no badass, at all- too young for the dark world he lives in. I also thought that him "accidently" gaining Kale's powers by simply coming upon his bike was too cheap for an intro. Johnny's deal with Mephisto was, for me, a more clever introduction. Yeah, I'd love the movie if it were to follow Noble Kale's series, but I want his host to be Johnny! I'm not just saying this because I grew up in the 70's-80's era, but overall, as a grown up, I prefer the older, more mature Blaze. He's got more guts and attitude that Dan CLEARLY lacked (when I read his "Blaze" miniseries, it clearly shows he can handle himself more than Dan ever did, even without GR's power)- plus he's got the rugged, good looks a true badass biker should possess (I'm talking 'bout the comics). Ghost Rider's host should be an adult, mature character- someone who can get to grips with his situations a lot quicker. Having him bonded to a weak, naive teenager just doesn't mix well, for me. Why? I highly doubt a kid like Dan is already capable of handling the grim reality of his world in real life. Kids his age are too susceptible to trauma from experiencing day-to-day the dark, twisted atmosphere of the comics. It's way unrealistic that they actually made him hold out THAT long. I agree with the other posters that the movies don't have to follow closely with the comicbooks' convoluted story- just have the proper look, characters, & feel -then reimagine the setting with a clearer, easier to understand plotline. It would also help Marvel get better ideas for improving GR's character- like what happened to Blade - when the films reimagined him to be more appealing than what he was before.

If any of you guys would actually take the time to read my long post, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!^_^ I'm new here, 'kay?

lol no offense taken buddy

You bring up good points. Blaze's origins make a little more sense, and true Dan was just a kid, but it's for that very reason he's such an interesting character. He's like Peter Parker; he has been given a great power, and must learn to use it for the greater good.

With respect, Blaze wasn't much of a badass either. If anything, I'd argue he was a bigger wimp than Ketch ever was b/c he always wanted to hold Ghost Rider back. Ketch was smart; if he was in a tough situation, he'd let GR out no questions asked. Remember: it's the demon we're primarily concerned with, not so much the host character b/c it's the demon that gets business done.

You say Blaze could handle himself more so than Dan could after reading the Blaze miniseries; that's a poor comparison in my opinion. You're comparing a mature and aged man who's seen and been through a lot in his life to a kid who's only just learning how to use his power properly.

P.S. Welcome to the Hype man! t:

 

[Cain Estrell]

"With respect, Blaze wasn't much of a badass either. If anything, I'd argue he was a bigger wimp than Ketch ever was b/c he always wanted to hold Ghost Rider back. Ketch was smart; if he was in a tough situation, he'd let GR out no questions asked."

OH? Yes, he did lose some spirit every now and then, but that doesn't necessarily mean Johnny was being a "wimp". REMEMBER , his demon was Zarathos, far more evil and diabolical than Noble Kale was. He always wanted to possess Johnny's body for his own. I can understand why JB wanted to hold him back- he wasn't a fool! There was always the risk that Zarathos would start taking control of him as soon as he comes out. He was just trying to preserve his own humanity- wisely so.

Dan was mostly, if not always, assured that Noble Kale would do the dirty job for him, no questions asked. There was no risk that Kale would try possesing him as soon as he comes out (Kale was tempted once, but never went through with it), hence Dan could summon him without too much worry. 'Smart' move it may be, but constantly relying on Kale also gives the impression that Dan's being too dependent on him .

"Dan was just a kid, but it's for that very reason he's such an interesting character. He's like Peter Parker; he has been given a great power, and must learn to use it for the greater good."

"Interesting???" Actually, that trait just made me loath him even more ! He came off to me as too much of a "Peter Parker wannabe". At least Peter showed more sincerity- he managed to conquer his fears and grew up into the mature hero he is, now. Dan NEVER managed to. He TRIED, but in the end he was just not up to the job.

"You say Blaze could handle himself more so than Dan could after reading the Blaze miniseries; that's a poor comparison in my opinion. You're comparing a mature and aged man who's seen and been through a lot in his life to a kid who's only just learning how to use his power properly."

Well, I admit it was a weak comparison , but what I'm getting at is that Blaze fits the movie, better. He's not like Ketch. He's a grown man experienced enough to handle himself- without TOO much naivity. You said it yourself: "Ketch is like Peter Parker." Unfortunately, with the Spidey triology already out, people will no doubt realize the similarities and start comparing him to Parker- in terms of personality, situation, and character. They'd want a more different plot.

Besides, without Kale, Dan's nothing- he couldn't even fight a normal thug all by himself. If the series continued to where we saw him mature into a man, then yes, I would've liked him better. But it didn't! Instead, the last they portrayed him was in his lowest moments- a whiny, complaining brat -before apparently getting "killed". Blaze was able to mature, and learned how to fend for himself. I'm too tired of that plotline where "a normal teenager suddenly gets awesome powers out of the blue". We've had TOO many of that archetype, especially in recent films, cartoons, and comics. Ghost Rider needs more depth. For me he's made to be a mature-rated anti-hero. Having a naive teenager be the star of such a dark comic just doesn't fit the mood, IMHO. If we're going to see a Dan Ketch reboot, I would appreciate it if he's reimagined NOT as a teenager- but an already mature man- at least in his mid-twenties. It adds more realism (and less disturbance) to a plot so filled with blood, gore, and violence- Unless you're saying we should keep up with the "lighther" tone used in most mainstream superhero films. I would never like that... Not to GR. I want a more flawed anti-hero, one who doesn't have to 'baby' some kid who still can't stand up by himself. Yes, Noble Kale struck me as far too GOOD. He should be more flawed, with a darker, more SENSIBLE origin (The one they "invented" for the comics was REALLY poor ideas, IMHO.) There should still be the ever apparent question of "morality". Only this time, with more depth & attitude. I want a more 'badass' GR- one who doesn't talk in "philosophical babbles" (y'know what I mean), but more direct to the point. I've always wanted GR to talk more informal, with a little "HA! IN YER FACE! " attitude. Someone more like Nolan North's delivery when he voiced him in the game, 'Marvel Ultimate Alliance'. For me he looks much cooler as a guy with dry wits, rather than as a repetitive babbler.

 

[crazy sock]

ehh. first off, dan ketch wasnt exactly a teenager. if anything he was 19 the youngest cause he def wasnt in highschool. i do agree that dan ketch on his own was kind of a weak character. but then again, i read the comics for GR himself.
dan ketch didnt randomly become GR. hes a descendant of Noble Kale, who is GR. at first it might have seemed kind of random, but thats only cause Howard mackie didnt get to continue the series how he wanted. if it were up to him, Zarathos would have been the one to possess Dan ketch.

 

[Cain Estrell]

He's still a teenagar to me. As long as you're not above 20, you're still a kid- still not fully matured. (Trust me on this. I've been there, already. ) And even if he did grew up a year or two during the comics' entire run, his actions/personality remained the same (He didn't really matured). Yes, I read the comics for Ghost Rider himself (who doesn't? t, but I want a better host- one who doesn't tend to be such an annoying weakling- to the point that I keep getting distracted from the story.

Actually, the whole "descendant" story was the one part I disliked the most during that era. Somehow I felt it was a very poor choice for an origin- it didn't really made much impact . I hope they never incorporate that in the movies; instead going for an original, darker plot- one that makes more sense. I want them to reinvent Dan Ketch. Make him older- more capable of adapting to the dark situations he faces.

Noble Kale's Ghost Rider, as much as I love his appearance, was just too much of an all-round good guy. I liked how they made a kinder GR than Zarathos- but I think they went a little too far. Like I said, if he's gonna be the featured demon in the movies, I would love it if they'd portray him as a more flawed, morally questionable man. Although still a good being at his core, he should display more signs of anti-heroism: Like using more brutal, merciless methods in dealing with foes- and acting in such a way that makes us wonder if he's really good or evil. It's hard to explain, but that was the one trait that made Zarathos appealing to me- until I realized that there was not a single goodness in him. I read the original script; the one made by David Goyer. It clearly showed GR as a very intimidating force to reckon with- more deadly, and less "philosophical" talk. That's the kind of character I really want. But of course, I'm just stating my personal preferrence. PEACE! t:

 

[crazy sock]

yea i can see what you mean with having GR be a morally questionable character n such.

 

[DoomRulz]

He's still a teenagar to me. As long as you're not above 20, you're still a kid- still not fully matured. (Trust me on this. I've been there, already. ) And even if he did grew up a year or two during the comics' entire run, his actions/personality remained the same (He didn't really matured). Yes, I read the comics for Ghost Rider himself (who doesn't? t, but I want a better host- one who doesn't tend to be such an annoying weakling- to the point that I keep getting distracted from the story.

Actually, the whole "descendant" story was the one part I disliked the most during that era. Somehow I felt it was a very poor choice for an origin- it didn't really made much impact . I hope they never incorporate that in the movies; instead going for an original, darker plot- one that makes more sense. I want them to reinvent Dan Ketch. Make him older- more capable of adapting to the dark situations he faces.

Noble Kale's Ghost Rider, as much as I love his appearance, was just too much of an all-round good guy. I liked how they made a kinder GR than Zarathos- but I think they went a little too far. Like I said, if he's gonna be the featured demon in the movies, I would love it if they'd portray him as a more flawed, morally questionable man. Although still a good being at his core, he should display more signs of anti-heroism: Like using more brutal, merciless methods in dealing with foes- and acting in such a way that makes us wonder if he's really good or evil. It's hard to explain, but that was the one trait that made Zarathos appealing to me- until I realized that there was not a single goodness in him. I read the original script; the one made by David Goyer. It clearly showed GR as a very intimidating force to reckon with- more deadly, and less "philosophical" talk. That's the kind of character I really want. But of course, I'm just stating my personal preferrence. PEACE! t:

Your point on being a kid before 20 isn't entirely true, you can be a 30 year old but still be a completely immature fool. Most 18-25 year olds I know are more mature than most 26+ year olds I know (and I'm 19).

What didn't you like about the descendant origin?

The whole good guy angle Noble Kale was given was b/c his behaviour was a means of penance for all the sins he had committed in his previous life. Playing that angle actually made his Ghost Rider a million times more interesting than Zarathos...Zarathos was like Carnage from Spider-Man IMO, all about killing people. Pretty shallow if you ask me, at least Noble Kale wanted to help people.

I'm glad they didn't play an anti-hero angle in him. Noble Kale was a genuine good guy at heart, and they saved the anti-hero stuff for his biggest villain in Vengeance...he is to Ghost Rider what Venom is to Spider-Man.

 

[Cain Estrell]

I can understand why you like Dan Ketch so much. You were raised in his era, weren't you ? The "age" may not always be true, but in Dan's case, it was! He was really immature. But as an older man, and an older fan, I go for the more "flawed" GR. I like him better as a guy showing more "evil" in him- namely the Blaze/Zarathos version. That was my biggest problem with Kale- he was too good. The 'Ghost Rider' character has always struck me as a morally-flawed anti-hero, and I prefer him that way.

"Zarathos was like Carnage from Spider-Man IMO, all about killing people. Pretty shallow if you ask me, at least Noble Kale wanted to help people."

Funny you should say that t:, but I actually thought being too much of an all-round good guy made Kale the 'shallow' one. For me, he was too "cliche". Actually, they're BOTH pretty shallow: Zarathos- too evil; Kale- too good. I want a more balanced character- like the one I said in my previous post . I know both series have flaws- that's why I want them to fix those things for the movies. I may be a long-time fan, but I'm no purist. I know when it's time for changes.