Godzilla vs Kong (2021)

[#root]

I thought Bernie was annoying as hell, but that's some major league stretching there. I get the whole danger of conspiracy theorists and people being radicalized by conspiracy theorists through this whole pandemic.

However, let's put something else in perspective. Big corporations don't always have our best interests at heart and should not always be trusted.

Is Erin Brockovich a pro-conspiracy movie for showing some blue collar workers challenging a big corporate energy company?

Also, it's a fictional movie at the end of the day. Apex was attempting to create an anti-Godzilla weapon despite the fact that Godzilla had saved the planet and the human race from an ancient alien. Also, IMHO no subject matter is off-limits for telling a story, even ones that make people uncomfortable. I'd say the difference is that Bernie Hayes isn't a white supremacist, anti-feminist type or Trumper Thumper. Rather, he's trying to expose the lies of Apex.

To me the thing about tap water wasn't to show that Bernie was correct, it was just to show that Madison knows how to deal with guys like him and how to get him on their side.

Yea equating a goofy movie conspiracy theorist who’s exposing a shady corporation for building MechaGodzilla of all things with QAnon is some major stretching and some borderline disingenuous pearl clutching.

I mean... I’m not even saying that this movie will radicalise people or turn them into conspiracy theorists. Neither am I comparing that character to QAnon or Trump stans. I’m just saying that this character and that joke annoyed me. Maybe more so because I actually have to deal with these people sometimes. And I’m also agreeing with @Sithborg that conspiracy theorists feel much less fun now. Not they were ever super “fun”. That’s all .

It surprised me that they went with the Fluoride is a Nazi plot when the actual conspiracy theory, that it is a communist plot, has been aroun since the 50's. Check out the superb Kubrick film DR. STRANGELOVE, where the reason General Ripper starts WWIII is because of fluoride in the water.

So little thought went into this movie that they couldn’t even get their conspiracy theories right . Great recommendation btw .

 

[Punisher_MAX]

The cut in theaters is Wingard’s cut.


I feel like people don’t know how editing works.

No offense but I actually went to school for film, I know how editing works, and the movie was clearly cut up to fit a runtime that would lessen the financial blow back if it didn't do well no matter what Wingard wants to say in public. Ayer did the same thing for a long time until the Snyder Cut was released.

If you have 5 hours worth of solid material and cut it down to be a nonsensical 2 hr romp then they need a better editor cause there is clearly a ton of set ups that seem oddly glossed over or cuts that simply don't make sense.

 

[Limonade]

No offense but I actually went to school for film, I know how editing works, and the movie was clearly cut up to fit a runtime that would lessen the financial blow back if it didn't do well no matter what Wingard wants to say in public. Ayer did the same thing for a long time until the Snyder Cut was released.

If you have 5 hours worth of solid material and cut it down to be a nonsensical 2 hr romp then they need a better editor cause there is clearly a ton of set ups that seem oddly glossed over or cuts that simply don't make sense.

Yeah but who's paying the editors? The execs and producers... If they give the editor parameters to fulfill AND they want them to keep the most expensive shots... what are you going to do? Stay true to the story--and possibly not get hired for their next project?

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Yeah but who's paying the editors? The execs and producers... If they give the editor parameters to fulfill AND they want you to keep the most expensive shots... what are you going to do?

I'm not arguing that, I literally said that the movie was cut up to be a mindless action romp, but that has nothing to do with there being enough material to make a better movie with a better editor.

 

[Limonade]

I'm not arguing that, I literally said that the movie was cut up to be a mindless action romp, but that has nothing to do with there being enough material to make a better movie with a better editor.

I don't see how you can fit multiple storylines without losing focus of its two main moneymaking characters though. They fell into that trap before with their previous Kaiju movies.

I see your point though.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I don't see how you can fit multiple storylines without losing focus of its two main moneymaking characters though. They fell into that trap before with their previous Kaiju movies.

I mean that's why they pay good editors right? Because if you can make an engaging human story alongside the two main attractions then you've earned your money.

I personally would have loved to delve more into the hollow earth stuff and seeing what dark secrets or discoveries Monarch has made, or what has happened since the worldwide destruction since KotM, I'd watch a longer movie if it's engaging, but execs know that most people come see the mindless action.

Editing isn't easy which is why a good editor can take an average compilation of scenes to make it something good.

Not every Director makes good cuts either, Blade Runner is a great example when the Final Cut is better than Scott's Directors Cut, and both can be argued to be better, so cest la vie, but there probably was a comprehensive GvK movie with all the extra material that was scrapped to make a Transformers like movie because $

 

[TheVileOne]

So little thought went into this movie that they couldn’t even get their conspiracy theories right . Great recommendation btw .

I don't think the idea was to get it right, just give it some outlandish crazy yet familiar sounding conspiracy, ie tinfoil hats protect you from aliens type of thing. It's to show how paranoid Bernie is and how deeply he buys into all that madness. It's simply on the Monarch thing where he happened to out of 1000 conspiracies to be right. Sort of like ID4 making the Roswell alien landing thing in the 1950s rather than the 40s when it is purported to have actually happened.

 

[Limonade]

I mean that's why they pay good editors right? Because if you can make an engaging human story alongside the two main attractions then you've earned your money.

I personally would have loved to delve more into the hollow earth stuff and seeing what dark secrets or discoveries Monarch has made, or what has happened since the worldwide destruction since KotM, I'd watch a longer movie if it's engaging, but execs know that most people come see the mindless action.

Editing isn't easy which is why a good editor can take an average compilation of scenes to make it something good.

Not every Director makes good cuts either, Blade Runner is a great example when the Final Cut is better than Scott's Directors Cut, and both can be argued to be better, so cest la vie, but there probably was a comprehensive GvK movie with all the extra material that was scrapped to make a Transformers like movie because $

I remember watching a post-mortem on the Phantom Menace and the issue that editor faced was 4 big plot points that George Lucas was adamant on keeping to tell his story. It was difficult to keep the audiences attention when there are multiple things to keep track of.

For fans... they would want more, obviously. But for general audience, it's preferred to be kept short and concise.

Plus, I think there's a powerful editor's guild in Hollywood? So I doubt the big studios can just pick and choose anyone without violating some sort of union agreement. And most of the time, the studios pay big money to them already.

 

[Luigi]

It was really fun to see Adam Wingard play with his neon visuals on a big budget blockbuster. Last 30 mins are killer.

Also, where was this aggressive Godzilla in KOTM? This Godzilla would have wrecked Ghidorah.

 

[terry78]

The monster verse movies outside of Godzilla 2014 all just have a very transformer-y vibe regarding the humans. Granted I do like the wackiness at times but yeah.

 

[Prison Mike]

I didn’t really notice the transformers vibe in KOTM...they still played it somewhat serious. GvK, on the other hand, was very transformers-ish.

 

[Filmfan93]

I didn’t really notice the transformers vibe in KOTM...they still played it somewhat serious. GvK, on the other hand, was very transformers-ish.

Same. KOTM still had that heavy-ness of the monsters.

GvK felt straight like TF, not only with the fights, but with a straight giant lizard robot at the end lol

 

[Schlosser85]

Same. KOTM still had that heavy-ness of the monsters.

GvK felt straight like TF, not only with the fights, but with a straight giant lizard robot at the end lol

All it needed was Shia LaBeouf screaming NOOOOO.

 

[weezerspider]

No offense but I actually went to school for film, I know how editing works, and the movie was clearly cut up to fit a runtime that would lessen the financial blow back if it didn't do well no matter what Wingard wants to say in public. Ayer did the same thing for a long time until the Snyder Cut was released.

If you have 5 hours worth of solid material and cut it down to be a nonsensical 2 hr romp then they need a better editor cause there is clearly a ton of set ups that seem oddly glossed over or cuts that simply don't make sense.

I went to film school. I taught film school. Woopdee do.

There is no proof there was five hours worth of solid material. Just because the assembly cut was five hours doesn’t mean the footage was all worth seeing. Hence why a lot of it was cut.

 

[#root]

I don't think the idea was to get it right, just give it some outlandish crazy yet familiar sounding conspiracy, ie tinfoil hats protect you from aliens type of thing. It's to show how paranoid Bernie is and how deeply he buys into all that madness. It's simply on the Monarch thing where he happened to out of 1000 conspiracies to be right. Sort of like ID4 making the Roswell alien landing thing in the 1950s rather than the 40s when it is purported to have actually happened.

I know I know I’m just joking . Of course a lot of thought and effort went into making the movie even if I didn’t like it. And like you said, it’s all fiction so they’re free to take creative liberties where they want.

 

[TheVileOne]

I highly doubt there was five hours worth of material for Godzilla vs. Kong, but I also have no problem believing that they gutted hefty chunks of the film involving Monarch, Mark Russell, and his boss played by Lance Reddick, credited as Guillermin. Also, that five hours could also be extended or alternate takes of the same scenes. Sometimes in films, subplots or dialogue elements get re-arranged or placed elsewhere. Or dialogue gets reappropriated to other characters. Or characters ultimately arrive at the same destination by different methods. Case in point in 2008's Iron Man, the film has Tony going to Dubai and meeting Ghostface Killah in his deleted cameo, gets thrown into bed with a bunch of hot girls and leaves, which is how Iron Man gets into the Middle East to save Yinsen's village. When Tony returns, he's still wearing the armor in Dubai and Pepper finds wearing the battle damaged armor, and he tells Pepper to help him get out of there.

In the final cut of the movie, the continuity of that sequence is totally altered. Tony just flies to the Middle East on his own, and then when he returns, Pepper finds him with JARVIS trying to help him get out of it with the gantry. So that's an example of how you can have extra deleted footage that doesn't really fit the flow or continuity of a film's final edit.

FYI, you don't bring in an actor like Lance Reddick for a throwaway line and character like that for one scene. Like basically blink and you miss him.

Chances are they cut most of it to focus on Team Kong/Hollow Earth mission and had Madison with Bernie and Josh as the B-plot of the film. I can sort of understand that having more of the Hong Kong/Monarch people could've risked hurting the flow or pacing of the movie or made it too long, but whatever.

I don't think editing or pacing are Wingard's strongest attributes. Case in point, Death Note, which seriously rushes over and glosses over a lot to boil down what is a very dense, deliberately paced story in the manga.

It was really fun to see Adam Wingard play with his neon visuals on a big budget blockbuster. Last 30 mins are killer.

Also, where was this aggressive Godzilla in KOTM? This Godzilla would have wrecked Ghidorah.

Kong is his fated rival.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I highly doubt there was five hours worth of material for Godzilla vs. Kong, but I also have no problem believing that they gutted hefty chunks of the film involving Monarch, Mark Russell, and his boss played by Lance Reddick, credited as Guillermin. Also, that five hours could also be extended or alternate takes of the same scenes. Sometimes in films, subplots or dialogue elements get re-arranged or placed elsewhere. Or dialogue gets reappropriated to other characters. Or characters ultimately arrive at the same destination by different methods. Case in point in 2008's Iron Man, the film has Tony going to Dubai and meeting Ghostface Killah in his deleted cameo, gets thrown into bed with a bunch of hot girls and leaves, which is how Iron Man gets into the Middle East to save Yinsen's village. When Tony returns, he's still wearing the armor in Dubai and Pepper finds wearing the battle damaged armor, and he tells Pepper to help him get out of there.

In the final cut of the movie, the continuity of that sequence is totally altered. Tony just flies to the Middle East on his own, and then when he returns, Pepper finds him with JARVIS trying to help him get out of it with the gantry. So that's an example of how you can have extra deleted footage that doesn't really fit the flow or continuity of a film's final edit.

FYI, you don't bring in an actor like Lance Reddick for a throwaway line and character like that for one scene. Like basically blink and you miss him.

Chances are they cut most of it to focus on Team Kong/Hollow Earth mission and had Madison with Bernie and Josh as the B-plot of the film. I can sort of understand that having more of the Hong Kong/Monarch people could've risked hurting the flow or pacing of the movie or made it too long, but whatever.

I don't think editing or pacing are Wingard's strongest attributes. Case in point, Death Note, which seriously rushes over and glosses over a lot to boil down what is a very dense, deliberately paced story in the manga.



Kong is his fated rival.

Thank you for elaborating more on my point of the movie being obviously edited to omit a lot of stuff for the sake of pacing and run time lol

Who knows how much extra footage there is but this movie was in production for a while, if I remember correctly, so it's not hard to believe that after KotMs reception AND COVID-19 that WB trimmed down the film to be a mindless romp with GA appeal for fears of it bombing.

Well the movie did well and it's obvious it excised a lot of material from the narrative.

 

[Sithborg]

Based on some of what I've seen from the novelization, some key plot point changes made the Monarch plot not needed. And frankly, it was the right call. It simplifies the villains a bit, and at the same time, makes the monster's interactions more interesting.

 

[TheVileOne]

Based on some of what I've seen from the novelization, some key plot point changes made the Monarch plot not needed. And frankly, it was the right call. It simplifies the villains a bit, and at the same time, makes the monster's interactions more interesting.

It's possible the edits could've made a worse film better. I believe that's a valid argument as well, but the movie does feel a little lean as is.

 

[P Supreme]

well went to see this in theaters well worth it to see those fights on the big screen i enjoyed that aspect of the movie very much everything else well not so much

Bernie was so cringe everytime he was on screen i was smh Millie Brown didnj't need to be in this movie at all in fact that trio could have been cut tbh

the other human characters were there to get Kong to where he needed to be so they were alright
I was team Kong was dissappointed a lil at the outcome lol but enjoyed myself and i woujld pay to see a sequel to skull island

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It was really fun to see Adam Wingard play with his neon visuals on a big budget blockbuster. Last 30 mins are killer.

Also, where was this aggressive Godzilla in KOTM? This Godzilla would have wrecked Ghidorah.

Yeah Big G was not messing about here. I was slightly disappointed in Kong's showing overall but Godzilla was a true force of nature in this movie.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[samsnee]

I didn’t realize that Asian guy was supposed to be the son of Ken Watanabe’s character

 

[Lasirius]

Saw this yesterday in theaters and enjoyed the heck of it. Found the human characters much less annoying than they were on King of Monsters, which I rewatched about a month ago and felt the same way about it than I did when I saw it in theaters. I was so disappointed.

This was overall way better and enjoyable. Still dumb? Yes but it was great.

 

[kguillou]

I didn’t realize that Asian was guy was supposed to be the son of Ken Watanabe’s character

Me neither!! Did they even mention his name?