Superman Returns Growth of Superman's CHaracter in SR

[mego joe]

He should be reformed and sorrowful? Or do you mean he should succeed in destroying Superman? I'm doubting it.

Just a different approach to the character that didn't include the tired 'landscheme.' Plenty of folks want to see a corporate CEO Luthor, or a political one.

You could have done a scientist version like the pre-Crisis comics.

Landscheme Lex was just boring, and his plot took so long to develop. Luthor and Superman only meet at the end of the film.

For those that don't know about his back story or not much. I liked how they had Richard discuss his powers with Lois for instance. It entertained me and told those that didn't know about his powers what they were. This could include people that have a little knowledge to those that had none. Like children or even foreigners that had no prior experience of him. I've heard someone's parents in South America didn't really know him. Then there's the obvious Communist or ex-Communist countries like China. I'm sure they probably have little to no experience of him. Lastly those of us that know him needed to find out what was what. So he and his world was introduced to those with knowledge and those that had some or none.

I think the thing is that the actual execution could have been better, but Singer was insistent on using the majority of S:TM as a scene by scene template. While some of the Smallville stuff is nice looking, it's really wasted time. It really doesn't do anything accept follow the Donner template. This is perhaps the greatest sign of a lack of creativity. Instead of coming up with something new, we got the Donner template. There are certainly more creative and interesting ways to do this.

That happens in the comics too. I'm glad we didn't get another origin film. But it needed to re-introduce him to the world. For those with knowledge and those with none as stated.

Angeloz

But I think as stated above, the actual execution of it was truly unispired. Maybe we didn't NEED an origin story, but what we got was pretty boring and slow paced. There are better ways to re-introduce the character.

 

[LexCorp]

He should be reformed and sorrowful? Or do you mean he should succeed in destroying Superman? I'm doubting it.



For those that don't know about his back story or not much. I liked how they had Richard discuss his powers with Lois for instance. It entertained me and told those that didn't know about his powers what they were. This could include people that have a little knowledge to those that had none. Like children or even foreigners that had no prior experience of him. I've heard someone's parents in South America didn't really know him. Then there's the obvious Communist or ex-Communist countries like China. I'm sure they probably have little to no experience of him. Lastly those of us that know him needed to find out what was what. So he and his world was introduced to those with knowledge and those that had some or none.



That happens in the comics too. I'm glad we didn't get another origin film. But it needed to re-introduce him to the world. For those with knowledge and those with none as stated.

Angeloz

Yes it does happen in the comics but people who buy comics like that will have some prior knowledge of the character anyway. He has been around for over 50 years.

We did not need another origin film but more effort needed to be put in to the backstory of SR. You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks but really, that was a poor show by all who made this what it is.

 

[Angeloz]

Just a different approach to the character that didn't include the tired 'landscheme.' Plenty of folks want to see a corporate CEO Luthor, or a political one.

You could have done a scientist version like the pre-Crisis comics.

Landscheme Lex was just boring, and his plot took so long to develop. Luthor and Superman only meet at the end of the film.

They're not friends nor colleagues so they don't usually meet often in any film nor other stuff except "Smallville". But I'm behind here as they haven't yet released the sixth season DVDs here. As for Lex and what he is I've seen more than one version and don't object to him being a straight up criminal with a dastardly scheme. And I'll just point out Nuclear Man. So he could be so much worse. I appreciated that he wasn't a joke also that he messed with Kryptonian technology. So warping it.

I think the thing is that the actual execution could have been better, but Singer was insistent on using the majority of S:TM as a scene by scene template. While some of the Smallville stuff is nice looking, it's really wasted time. It really doesn't do anything accept follow the Donner template. This is perhaps the greatest sign of a lack of creativity. Instead of coming up with something new, we got the Donner template. There are certainly more creative and interesting ways to do this.

But I think as stated above, the actual execution of it was truly unispired. Maybe we didn't NEED an origin story, but what we got was pretty boring and slow paced. There are better ways to re-introduce the character.

I was far from bored. As for the Donner template being crap I'll just point to most other comic films like "Spider-Man". Although I love "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman Returns" much more. As for the Smallville stuff unfortunately there was more to it but they edited it out. Although I'm glad of at least one thing they took out. Plus I still loved the film without those scenes. However I wouldn't mind seeing more deleted scenes if they do a future release.

Yes it does happen in the comics but people who buy comics like that will have some prior knowledge of the character anyway. He has been around for over 50 years.

We did not need another origin film but more effort needed to be put in to the backstory of SR. You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks but really, that was a poor show by all who made this what it is.

If you mean what happened with Superman and Lois. That was supposed to be a bit of a mystery with a reveal at the end. Although those of us that know the second film might not be too surprised. So really we found out what was needed. I think it's some of the fans that make mountains out of molehills on this issue.

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

They're not friends nor colleagues so they don't usually meet often in any film nor other stuff except "Smallville". But I'm behind here as they haven't yet released the sixth season DVDs here. As for Lex and what he is I've seen more than one version and don't object to him being a straight up criminal with a dastardly scheme. And I'll just point out Nuclear Man. So he could be so much worse. I appreciated that he wasn't a joke also that he messed with Kryptonian technology. So warping it.



I was far from bored. As for the Donner template being crap I'll just point to most other comic films like "Spider-Man". Although I love "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman Returns" much more. As for the Smallville stuff unfortunately there was more to it but they edited it out. Although I'm glad of at least one thing they took out. Plus I still loved the film without those scenes. However I wouldn't mind seeing more deleted scenes if they do a future release.



If you mean what happened with Superman and Lois. That was supposed to be a bit of a mystery with a reveal at the end. Although those of us that know the second film might not be too surprised. So really we found out what was needed. I think it's some of the fans that make mountains out of molehills on this issue.

Angeloz

The fact that Superman has a child. Second film? You mean original second film? Well duh of course but those Donna films only loosly translate into SR. Hardly a mountain out of a molehill, they gave Superman a child. Which is way off imo of course.

 

[mego joe]

They're not friends nor colleagues so they don't usually meet often in any film nor other stuff except "Smallville". But I'm behind here as they haven't yet released the sixth season DVDs here. As for Lex and what he is I've seen more than one version and don't object to him being a straight up criminal with a dastardly scheme. And I'll just point out Nuclear Man. So he could be so much worse. I appreciated that he wasn't a joke also that he messed with Kryptonian technology. So warping it.

I think that Lex's scheme took so long to develop and there was only one meeting between the two really minimized the Superman vs. Lex plotline. There's no problem with the dastardly scheme, but it's been done before, with the same Lex.

Nuclear Man really should have been Bizarro. Have you seen the outtakes from IV? There's LEx's failed 'nuclear man' attempt that has a Bizarro quality about him which is what they should have done with that film.

I personally felt he was a joke. Creating a landmass to use as real estate property? He talked about weapons and such- now that wouldn't have been a joke.

I was far from bored. As for the Donner template being crap I'll just point to most other comic films like "Spider-Man".

The only thing that Superman: The Movie and Spider-Man have in common is that they are both origin films told in a straightforward narrative style with a linear plotline.

SR copies almost scene by scene S:TM. Earth to Krypton. Smallville. In Metropolis. Plane Rescue- same dialogue with Lois. Night flight over Metropolis with Lois. Same Luthor speech about real estate. Stealing Kryptonite. An Earthquake (oddly, no tidal wave which would have been created by a seaquake and the displacement off all that land in the Atlantic.)

There are no scenes like that in Spider-Man. Raimi was influenced by the straightforward linear approach as opposed to Daredevil which starts in the middle and then tells much of the story in flashback, or Batman '89 which only flashed back briefly to his origins.

Singer followed the outline of the film almost scene by scene and was CLEARLY trying to copy it. Raimi was influenced with the linear straightforward approach, but did not steal any scenes or dialogue from S:TM. It's very different if you look more closely at it.

Although I love "Superman: The Movie" and "Superman Returns" much more. As for the Smallville stuff unfortunately there was more to it but they edited it out. Although I'm glad of at least one thing they took out. Plus I still loved the film without those scenes. However I wouldn't mind seeing more deleted scenes if they do a future release.



If you mean what happened with Superman and Lois. That was supposed to be a bit of a mystery with a reveal at the end. Although those of us that know the second film might not be too surprised. So really we found out what was needed. I think it's some of the fans that make mountains out of molehills on this issue.

Angeloz

It's a mystery but never really explained, and the vague history is just lame. Either way it's not in character with Superman to ditch Lois like that. It's not a molehill, it's the characterization of the lead character whose motivations have been compromised by a director who doesn't really understand the character.

 

[LexCorp]

Well said mega joe

 

[Angeloz]

The fact that Superman has a child. Second film? You mean original second film? Well duh of course but those Donna films only loosly translate into SR. Hardly a mountain out of a molehill, they gave Superman a child. Which is way off imo of course.

I did mean "Superman II". I hate abbreviations and typing it out all the time. So I say first, second, third or fourth film. By the way I didn't know Donner had a sex change.

I think that Lex's scheme took so long to develop and there was only one meeting between the two really minimized the Superman vs. Lex plotline. There's no problem with the dastardly scheme, but it's been done before, with the same Lex.

Nuclear Man really should have been Bizarro. Have you seen the outtakes from IV? There's LEx's failed 'nuclear man' attempt that has a Bizarro quality about him which is what they should have done with that film.

I personally felt he was a joke. Creating a landmass to use as real estate property? He talked about weapons and such- now that wouldn't have been a joke.

I've seen the out-takes. They were lame and the music made it lamer. That said I did like the crushing of the cars though that'd make Superman a dick. I think one of the problems for the film ("Superman Returns") is some people take Lex's plot at face value. Some of us don't. Though even at face value he's going to destroy most of North America and parts of three other continents. He tries to get his revenge by perverting Kryptonian technology. Plus as I said as Lex is human and Superman nor Clark are in his circle it's hardly likely they'd meet much. I think in the first film it was twice the second film it's once (maybe twice) and the fourth film it's twice (I think). Most of the second times were when there was the cliche put him in jail scene (though it was amusing the first time - I liked it a lot).

The only thing that Superman: The Movie and Spider-Man have in common is that they are both origin films told in a straightforward narrative style with a linear plotline.

SR copies almost scene by scene S:TM. Earth to Krypton. Smallville. In Metropolis. Plane Rescue- same dialogue with Lois. Night flight over Metropolis with Lois. Same Luthor speech about real estate. Stealing Kryptonite. An Earthquake (oddly, no tidal wave which would have been created by a seaquake and the displacement off all that land in the Atlantic.)

There are no scenes like that in Spider-Man. Raimi was influenced by the straightforward linear approach as opposed to Daredevil which starts in the middle and then tells much of the story in flashback, or Batman '89 which only flashed back briefly to his origins.

Singer followed the outline of the film almost scene by scene and was CLEARLY trying to copy it. Raimi was influenced with the linear straightforward approach, but did not steal any scenes or dialogue from S:TM. It's very different if you look more closely at it.


It's a mystery but never really explained, and the vague history is just lame. Either way it's not in character with Superman to ditch Lois like that. It's not a molehill, it's the characterization of the lead character whose motivations have been compromised by a director who doesn't really understand the character.

Actually I meant I've heard some shots were influenced by "Superman: The Movie" in "Spider-Man". Like the shirt rip. But as you said it also gives a straightforward telling of the origin as opposed to some other way. I don't find that a criticism. I'll admit I haven't really analysed it. Though I've heard there are other influences too. I forget the first film. But the second was based on losing powers and choosing to be the hero again. The third had a darker hero that went "bad" so had to fight himself. I know there was a first film parallel ("Superman"/"Spider-Man") but I've forgotten it. If someone else does please remind us. I'll admit I'm just too lazy typing more about the criticisms of Singer. I liked him; you didn't. Though I will say I've heard there was meant to be a tidal wave/tsunami but it was nixed due to the cost (supposedly - I don't know if that's true however).

Angeloz

 

[LexCorp]

lol Angeloz yeah I meant Donner t: