Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows - Part 2

[Moridin]

James is overall be a "better person" if we're going only by general morals. . . but Snape is infinitely more sympathetic.

I actually think Rowling dropped the ball on characterizing Harry's father in the flashbacks, unless she wanted us to end up disliking him (seems unlikely to be her end motivation).

After OotP, my respect for James was forever lost, and I gained a new respect for how complex Snape was.

I thought it was pretty clear that while James was cocky and a *****e (to Snape, well known to meddle in the Dark Arts & kept company with scumbags) in school, he grew out of it. Lilly wouldn't have gotten with him if he hadn't.

 

[flash13]

Box Office never makes a movie for me. It just makes me glad when an awesome movie that deserves it breaks records. Plus Batman and Harry Potter play for the same team (Warner Bros) t:

 

[Marvolo]

Box Office never makes a movie for me. It just makes me glad when an awesome movie that deserves it breaks records. Plus Batman and Harry Potter play for the same team (Warner Bros) t:

Yeah this is a win for WB and next year Batman will be a win for them. WB deserves it so lets all celebrate instead of throwing hissy fits. I mean its like people don't want WB to succeed even though its the studio that gave them batman.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I thought it was pretty clear that while James was cocky and a *****e (to Snape, well known to meddle in the Dark Arts & kept company with scumbags) in school, he grew out of it. Lilly wouldn't have gotten with him if he hadn't.

Difference is, I expected such from Snape. When the reveal came about James being a bully, there was a sense of betrayal for the reader, because up until that point he'd been addressed as anything but.

It left this big gash in my image of him (and from what I understand, it's like that with most readers).

 

[Thundercrack85]

As for Voldemort, for all the hype he always came off to me as little more than a glorified mob boss. Not a Sauron-style dark overlord.

His ultimate goal was apparently to indirectly rule over a small community of wizards in Great Britain. Maybe he would have done something more impressive once Harry was out of the way, but we never see it happen. Being repeatedly bested by a group of pre-teens doesn't really help either.

 

[danoyse]

That's part of the reason I love the book Snape so much, and the full Prince's tale. You really see how much he grows as a character. He goes from a man who really doesn't care if the child is killed or not, to, by the end of the memories, someone who seems in some ways even more noble then Dumbledore.

Dumbledore "Don't be shocked, Severus. How many men and women have you watched die?"
Snape "Lately, only those whom I could not save."

It was amazing. The Snape who came begging to Dumbledore barely resembled the Snape by the end of the story. It was such an incredible and sad transformation.

The moment I also loved in the movie was when Harry confronted him in front of everyone in the Great Hall. The look Snape's face was heartbreaking. He couldn't say a word, and he looked like he just wanted to die right there.

 

[Liam_H]

Difference is, I expected such from Snape. When the reveal came about James being a bully, there was a sense of betrayal for the reader, because up until that point he'd been addressed as anything but.

It left this big gash in my image of him (and from what I understand, it's like that with most readers).

Yes that had changed perception but I think its good because JK Rowling doesn't maker her characters perfect. Everyone has faults. James was a jerk when he was in school but that doesn't mean he was that all the time, he grew out of it and matured. Lily saw that and she fell in love with him, knowing that happened is good enough for me.

As for Voldemort, for all the hype he always came off to me as little more than a glorified mob boss. Not a Sauron-style dark overlord.

His ultimate goal was apparently to indirectly rule over a small community of wizards in Great Britain. Maybe he would have done something more impressive once Harry was out of the way, but we never see it happen. Being repeatedly bested by a group of pre-teens doesn't really help either.

I seriously think once Voldemort ruled the wizarding world and gained enough followers he would've started killing off muggles. Seems like the natural path if he continued to rule.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Yes that had changed perception but I think its good because JK Rowling doesn't maker her characters perfect. Everyone has faults. James was a jerk when he was in school but that doesn't mean he was that all the time, he grew out of it and matured. Lily saw that and she fell in love with him, knowing that happened is good enough for me.

Yeah, I get that. But despite the fact he "grew out of it", my image of him was permanently damaged. It became hard for me to see his character as anything but a *****e (as one poster called him).

 

[Thundercrack85]

I seriously think once Voldemort ruled the wizarding world and gained enough followers he would've started killing off muggles. Seems like the natural path if he continued to rule.

Well, we don't really know how big the wizarding world is. But if Wizarding America is anything like real life America, good luck to Voldemort. And there's also the rest of Wizarding Europe...

 

[ironwez20]

man those dark knight fan's are upset about that record being broken. Who knew sombody would analyze a movie that deep like that. I love both movie's but come on let someone else share the glory.

 

[ironwez20]

Well, we don't really know how big the wizarding world is. But if Wizarding America is anything like real life America, good luck to Voldemort. And there's also the rest of Wizarding Europe...

Voldermort wouldnt stand a chance agaist wizard chuck norris. And if I was in the universes and voldy can to my hood (lol) thing's wouldn't go down so smoothly.t:

 

[Thundercrack85]

Hopefully for him Wizarding America wouldn't have an equivalent to the second amendment. If everyone has the right to use Avada Kedavra...

 

[Liam_H]

Yeah, I get that. But despite the fact he "grew out of it", my image of him was permanently damaged. It became hard for me to see his character as anything but a *****e (as one poster called him).

That's fair enough. But I guess whenever people spoke of James they always mentioned him in a positive light because that's who he truly was. Even Harry confronted Sirius about the truth, he told Harry to take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying I forgive James for being that way but I still looked past it. Him bullying Snape was just him being stupid and going through a phase as many people in high school do. Obviously Snape remembers the worst because he was tormented by him.

 

[Fanticon]

records are made to be broken. it's idiotic to be upset over something so trivial. i'm a dark knight fan and harry potter fan, but i wasn't on the edge of my seat hoping the boxoffice records would or wouldn't change. Anyone who didn't see this coming? And your upset over it? It doesn't make sense. TDKR could very well break this new record anyway. Its not even your money.

 

[Liam_H]

Hopefully for him Wizarding America wouldn't have an equivalent to the second amendment. If everyone has the right to use Avada Kedavra...

Funny you should mention this, you should watch the video in the link below 0:50 to 1:10...quite hilarious

http://www.spill.com/Movie-Reviews/...nd the Deathly Hallows, Part 2&VideoId=434402

 

[Marvolo]

Hopefully for him Wizarding America wouldn't have an equivalent to the second amendment. If everyone has the right to use Avada Kedavra...

Lmao voldemprt would not make it past the southern east coast. We don't **** around. He would disappear in the mountains and never be heard from again.

 

[danoyse]

I think James' problem was that he was just a brat. The book mentions that when Lily and Severus first met him, he looked very well-cared for and adored, so he thought he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. Like it was one of his qualities. Lily couldn't stand that about him, and if he wanted her to like him he would need to change. It looks like he did, but far too late to repair any kind of relationship with Snape, who was headed down an entirely different path, one that Lily refused to follow.

I like to think Harry learned a lot by seeing his father that way. He knew what it was like to be neglected and teased, and he sure as hell didn't like it. In the end, he learned from both of them.

 

[danoyse]

That's fair enough. But I guess whenever people spoke of James they always mentioned him in a positive light because that's who he truly was. Even Harry confronted Sirius about the truth, he told Harry to take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying I forgive James for being that way but I still looked past it. Him bullying Snape was just him being stupid and going through a phase as many people in high school do. Obviously Snape remembers the worst because he was tormented by him.

I think Lily brought out the better part of James. And we only ever saw him through Snape's memories, and those memories were bad.

 

[Liam_H]

I think Lily brought out the better part of James. And we only ever saw him through Snape's memories, and those memories were bad.

I agree with that sentiment, also that James had to change a bit by himself first before Lily would even give him a chance. The snippet we saw of James was at his worst and for all we know Lily had major faults too that we never saw. It be interesting to see the backstory of Lily and James...NOT saying I want another book...and how they came to be. However, letting us fill in the blanks ourselves is completely fine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought it was pretty clear that while James was cocky and a *****e (to Snape, well known to meddle in the Dark Arts & kept company with scumbags) in school, he grew out of it. Lilly wouldn't have gotten with him if he hadn't.

Snape just could never let go of his grudge. It didn't matter how good of a person James really was, Snape would never forgive him, not for treating him like dirt, but marrying the girl Snape was obsessed with.

This is one of the reasons why I never saw Snape as a sympathetic character. The way he treats Harry was unforgivable. He took out his hatred for his father on a little boy. His protection of Harry was based on completely selfish reasons.

Why I can't believe Yates let him [BLACKOUT]hold Lily's body like that. It is as creepy and downright gross. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Infinity9999x]

It was amazing. The Snape who came begging to Dumbledore barely resembled the Snape by the end of the story. It was such an incredible and sad transformation.

The moment I also loved in the movie was when Harry confronted him in front of everyone in the Great Hall. The look Snape's face was heartbreaking. He couldn't say a word, and he looked like he just wanted to die right there.

I loved that as well. Rickman was my favorite part of the film. He absolutely nailed the way I wanted Snape to be played.

One thing I have always enjoyed though, is that the book Snape has always been a tad nastier then Rickman's. It was a little easier to see Rickman's Snape harboring some sort of feeling for Harry, whereas the book Snape was definitely harder to see. The book Snape was always more explosive with his anger as well and less controlled. Part of me would love to see how the book Snape's portrait would react to Harry now that he knows Harry has seen his memories. I've always wondered if Snape would still be a prick to him, or open up, if only a little.

 

[Iceman]

That's fair enough. But I guess whenever people spoke of James they always mentioned him in a positive light because that's who he truly was. Even Harry confronted Sirius about the truth, he told Harry to take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying I forgive James for being that way but I still looked past it. Him bullying Snape was just him being stupid and going through a phase as many people in high school do. Obviously Snape remembers the worst because he was tormented by him.

He obviously was a good man overall...& most people certainly go through phases while at school but does that normally involve bullying? Especially the kind of bullying that has damaged another guy long term, unless Snape is hyper sensitive of course. I found it a bit confusing myself, especially without knowing how it is handled in the books.

To me, the films almost make it seem like Snape is the better man by the end t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He obviously was a good man overall...& most people certainly go through phases while at school but does that normally involve bullying? Especially the kind of bullying that has damaged another guy long term, unless Snape is hyper sensitive of course. I found it a bit confusing myself, especially without knowing how it is handled in the books.

To me, the films almost make it seem like Snape is the better man by the end t:

Yep, torturing a 11 year old kid shows just how good of a man Snape is.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Snape just could never let go of his grudge. It didn't matter how good of a person James really was, Snape would never forgive him, not for treating him like dirt, but marrying the girl Snape was obsessed with.

This is one of the reasons why I never saw Snape as a sympathetic character. The way he treats Harry was unforgivable. He took out his hatred for his father on a little boy. His protection of Harry was based on completely selfish reasons.

Why I can't believe Yates let him [BLACKOUT]hold Lily's body like that. It is as creepy and downright gross. [/BLACKOUT]

I personally loved that scene. And I disagree that his protection of Harry was based on completely selfish reasons. I do think Snape cared for Harry in a way, but he was a very tormented man.

Just imagine the emotions that run through him, he sees Harry, the spitting image of the person you loathe most in the world, yet he has the eyes of the woman you loved. He strikes out at Harry because he still has that deepest hatred of James, yet he probably knows deep down that Harry's nature is more like his mother's then his fathers, something which probably makes it harder for Snape to be around Harry. On top of it, when he is a jerk to Harry probably feels guilt for being cruel to Lilly Potter's son, but then he'll get angry at himself for feeling guilty about being hard on a child, because his entire childhood was littered with abuse as well, so him feeling sorry is a sign of weakness. And then the circle continues.

By the end of the book, Snape is shown to be someone who's devoted to protecting Harry, and he's appalled that Dumbledore has apparently raised him like a pig for slaughter. Not only that, but Snape has evolved into a person who does his best to protect others. He attempted to protect Lupin at the beginning of DH, someone he had no fond feelings for, he did his best to keep the children of Hogwarts protected.

And really, it all comes down to the line I posted earlier.

"Don't be shocked Severus, how many men and women have you seen die?"
"Lately, only those whom I could not save."

Snape started out as a very selfish man, and he retained elements of that. But by his death, he had many very noble qualities.

 

[Liam_H]

He obviously was a good man overall...& most people certainly go through phases while at school but does that normally involve bullying? Especially the kind of bullying that has damaged another guy long term, unless Snape is hyper sensitive of course. I found it a bit confusing myself, especially without knowing how it is handled in the books.

To me, the films almost make it seem like Snape is the better man by the end t:

Well like many people said above James grew up with a good life, he was pampered so it made him pretty arrogant when he got to school. It was reinforced when he was so well liked and had great Quidditch skills. Also the Snape and James rivalry was not one sided. They would both take turns to hex each other. So it wasn't like James constantly picked on Snape while he just sat there and took it. I believe Snape's ultimate grudge was marrying the girl he loved, could never get over that since he never stopped loving Lily.